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Bad Players Should Not Be Able To Run Expensive Mechs.


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#241 ForceUser

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:05 AM

View PostKhobai, on 14 November 2012 - 06:00 AM, said:


No the Atlas-K has the worst hardpoints of any Atlas. Its freaking awful.

I've recently bought an RS and i've found a rather interesting difference between it and the K. A few in fact.

1) The torso mounted LLas is usually the last weapon I lose. People tend to go after the side toros on an atlas so you lose those arm mounted lasers quite fast
2) I started to unconsciously use the centre torso LLas in the K as a laser sight for my gauss. I really mis that on the RS :)
3) The K and RS can both be turned into exterminatluses with ONLY the ONE Llas changing location.

Besides a gauss is not that expensive in the first place. DHS cost almost 3 times as much.

The K makes an excellent exterminatlus.

Edited by ForceUser, 14 November 2012 - 06:07 AM.


#242 Terror Teddy

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:06 AM

View PostKhobai, on 14 November 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

Yes they need to be fixed. But currently they are built-in to the Jenner, saying theyre not is just silly.


And this is the problem with your statement.

How can you seriously discus the in-game COST of the Jenner compared with the Atlas and their status as combatant in 1V1 based on the current state of the game ENGINE.

I mean, seriously. Should all prices in the game reflect the status of the engine? We need to boost prices on Gauss rifles and K2 variant by about X10 then and make the PPC cheaper than the light laser.

#243 Khobai

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:10 AM

You have to know how to pilot an RS. The main advantage of the RS is that all its weapons are arm-mounted so they have a very good vertical range of motion. And if you put streaks in your torso you can fire all your weapons up and down. So if you position your RS properly on a hill, you can do a tremendous amount of damage, and the other guy wont even be able to shoot you because he cant aim up or down. The RS however is still not the best Atlas variants.

#244 Superhero

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:14 AM

i cant wait to dump 100 bucks in this game and run a mech i cant handle. at least i can waste money and still be happy that's all that make me happy.

Edited by Superhero, 14 November 2012 - 06:14 AM.


#245 ForceUser

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:21 AM

View PostKhobai, on 14 November 2012 - 06:10 AM, said:

You have to know how to pilot an RS. The main advantage of the RS is that all its weapons are arm-mounted so they have a very good vertical range of motion. And if you put streaks in your torso you can fire all your weapons up and down. So if you position your RS properly on a hill, you can do a tremendous amount of damage, and the other guy wont even be able to shoot you because he cant aim up or down. The RS however is still not the best Atlas variants.

You have to know how to pilot a K. The main advantage of the K is that it has the CT LLAS and 2 arm mounted LLAS so you have vertical range AND survivability/target pointer for your gauss.

You don't put other weapons on an exterminatlus silly :)

The RS makes a better brawler that is true, and the DDC is a BEAST although I'm not sure if the extra SRM is worth the loss of 2 mlas. Don't have a lot of experience with the D unfortunately.

#246 SPARTAN 104

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:26 AM

View PostKhobai, on 14 November 2012 - 06:00 AM, said:


No the Atlas-K has the worst hardpoints of any Atlas. Its freaking awful.

none of the Atlas are badly built unless you want to complain about no ballistics in the arms. Most other complaints not including the 2nd broken ams debocle are relevant.

Edited by SPARTAN 104, 14 November 2012 - 06:26 AM.


#247 ForceUser

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:29 AM

The K has the least amount of hardpoints yes, but that is irrelevant to an Exterminatlus build.

And believe you me it's a good build. Scored over 1k damage with it and usually scores over 600 in most matches.

Also, it''s cheap to run! This means bad players can run inexpensive builds that are still good and cry less! Yey!

Edited by ForceUser, 14 November 2012 - 06:30 AM.


#248 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:29 AM

View PostSuperhero, on 14 November 2012 - 06:14 AM, said:

i cant wait to dump 100 bucks in this game and run a mech i cant handle. at least i can waste money and still be happy that's all that make me happy.

Only $100? I have a Battletech Mini collection that is worth a least $2000 in Puter alone! Sarcasm need to be more subtle!

#249 Khobai

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:35 AM

Quote

You have to know how to pilot a K. The main advantage of the K is that it has the CT LLAS and 2 arm mounted LLAS so you have vertical range AND survivability/target pointer for your gauss.


umm you realize the atlas-D has the same EXACT hardpoints as the K plus an extra missile and ballistic slot right? derp.

#250 ForceUser

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:38 AM

View PostKhobai, on 14 November 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:


umm you realize the atlas-D has the same EXACT hardpoints as the K plus an extra missile and ballistic slot right? derp.

I bought the K for the 300XL actually :) And since it has the exact same slots (extra ones are irrelevant) as the D it makes an excellent exterminatlus. ;)

Edited by ForceUser, 14 November 2012 - 06:40 AM.


#251 Darth JarJar

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:44 AM

Meh, new people running expensive mechs with expensive repairs is really a self-limiting thing. Nothing to see here, move along.

#252 Khobai

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:45 AM

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I bought the K for the 300XL actually :) And since it has the exact same slots (extra ones are irrelevant) as the D it makes an excellent exterminatlus.


yeah but you have to buy 3 variants anyway to get master. So you can just buy an Atlas-D and sell your Atlas-K because its useless.

Dont get me wrong I want the Atlas-K to be useful. But unless they fix its hardpoints or give it an extra module slot over the other Atlas variants I just see no reason to use it ever. It would be cool if it got an extra module slot because then it would be like the utility Atlas with the extra AMS and extra module.

Edited by Khobai, 14 November 2012 - 06:48 AM.


#253 ForceUser

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:50 AM

Oh hay guys! This is relevant to the economy discussion.

I just looked at my stats and they finally made it so that the c-bils made per match is correct (It takes into account all cbills made, not just current cbils)

Mine is sitting at about 210k

Now I do have a founders cat but I've only played enough to max out its skills. Have not converted xp yet. Now my math is a bit rusty on how to work out % after the fact kind of stuff but my average without premium is about 140k.

I can live with 140k a match on average (More with wins obviously) without premium. This is mostly with premades though. I have pugged a little but it sucks. Win/loss is at around 5.5.

Seriously guys, get with a group, it's way more fun that way. Warning: You may actually have to put effort into it then.

For reference I've played a total of 333 games

View PostKhobai, on 14 November 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:


yeah but you have to buy 3 variants anyway to get master. So you can just buy an Atlas-D and sell your Atlas-K because its useless.

Dont get me wrong I want the Atlas-K to be useful. But unless they fix its hardpoints or give it an extra module slot over the other Atlas variants I just see no reason to use it ever. It would be cool if it got an extra module slot because they it would be like the utility Atlas with the extra AMS and extra module.

Nope, it's not useless, it allows me to not have to buy a D. I have a K (Gonna be my exterminatlus permanently), a RS (Brutal brawler) and gonna buy a DDC next (For when LRMS/streaks/SRMS are good again)

Edited by ForceUser, 14 November 2012 - 06:52 AM.


#254 Hovertank

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:52 AM

View PostVassago Rain, on 13 November 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

Posted Image

Already in the game.


LOL, hopefully that was a win and you made 50k or so...

Heavyweight mechs (In actual tonnage or technology.) SHOULD be expensive to run and you SHOULD lose money if you really screw up in them. To me, really screwing up is dying horribly while doing no appreciable damage to the other force.

I can't recall losing money in any of my mechs, except when I've CTD'd with a streak cat or something. Although I don't generally run with heavy ammo loadouts. Granted, I do run with premium right now.

#255 Taizan

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:55 AM

View PostVassago Rain, on 14 November 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

The system should work based on your earnings percenage.
If you throw in the worst possible performance, make it cost 90% of your earnings. Not 200%+ No one's gonna bother with the fancy gear, unless they have premium powers.

How do you measure performance though? Sometimes I have 5 assists and 0 kills and victory, sometimes 3 kills/2 assists and defeat. Very vague definition imho.

Quote

Like when freeplay scum can't afford to reload their guns, but I can.

*sigh* having some kind of superiority complex there?

#256 Enigmos

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:57 AM

"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools." ~Herbert Spencer

#257 El Penguin

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:01 AM

View PostHovertank, on 14 November 2012 - 06:52 AM, said:

Heavyweight mechs (In actual tonnage or technology.) SHOULD be expensive to run and you SHOULD lose money if you really screw up in them. To me, really screwing up is dying horribly while doing no appreciable damage to the other force.



Your team can fail but you can do a great job in a match but you will end up being destroyed in all directions by the remaining enemys. So you can't really have it only be you screwing up. Also if I remember right, you don't get much more from dealing damage that it would make that much of a difference.

Also why should heavier weight class mechs be more expensive if all mechs should be viable in this game? It was said in one of the older Dev videos as well (and also brought up sort of recently in this thread).

Edited by El Penguin, 14 November 2012 - 07:03 AM.


#258 Khobai

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:04 AM

Quote

Your team can fail but you can do a great job in a match but you will end up being destroyed in all directions by the remaining enemys. So you can't really have it only be you screwing up. Also if I remember right, you don't get much more from dealing damage that it would make that much of a difference.


Yep. I did 1200 damage and got 5 kills in one match and my team still lost. Phase 1 matchmaking has basically turned the game into luck... now its just whoever has the better PUGs. At least before, one team was winning because of skill, now its entirely luck of the draw.

#259 Besterino

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:10 AM

Oh boy. What a thread.

Looking at myself I can only concede that PGI did their job quite well. I have fun and I pay for it with real cash. :)

To put my posting here into perspective, I would have bought the game for ~$50 REGARDLESS of (i) what reviews would have said, (ii) what screenshots would have looked like or (iii) what glimpse I could get of the community: simply the "YAY, a new mechwarrior game" feel is worth 50 bucks to me. So those 50 bucks were basically spent and gone once I heard of MW:O. Do I care that it's still beta (closed or open)? Nope, it just means I get to play with it earlier... win/win.

Oh, and I also would have paid a monthly fee just to be able to play (if the game in the end is fun enough), but might not be willing to do that for a beta phase (but cannot absolutely exclude that I wouldn't have done even that...). Luckily PGI has this covered with the benefits coming with a premium account, so that's something I most likely will spent MC on in the future...

That said, PGI got me even happier at the very beginning: hey, I don't even have to pay $50 now, I can participate in the beta and play for free. Sweet.

And now here's why PGI's business guys together with the designers also did a good job: I *could* play MW:O for free, but do I (!) *want* to? (Note: this is a question everyone has to answer for him-/herself!) For me the answer is clear: Nope. Because I don't want to spent my (rather limited) spare time on basic things necessary for me to actually have FUN with the game, like getting a decent chassis plus some extra cash to equip it properly (and to my needs and quirks). So what did I do? I bought some MC, bought me my desired mech(s) (sold one or two immediately again for c-bills) and here I am: happy as can be since day 2 (spent 1 day running around with trial mechs and to do a quick calculation of how long it would take me to get what I want through grinding).

Yes, I spent real cash, but I spent it not TO get what i want, but to get it NOW (with the added benefit that I can tell myself that even though no founder I still support PGI while the game is in development - yay!).

So for me everything's actually just fine. Granted, I am willing to spent a few bucks for my personal amusement (which is unfortunately requried for this game to be amusement to me). But I am also totally happy that others, who, for example value time differently than I do - or don't need mech customization and/or have fun/success piloting trial mechs - can play the game for free and achieve the same gear/experience as I who has paid for it. I actually embrace it, because the more people play this game, the better for the game in the long run and - ultimately - myself and my entertainment.

But guys, I cannot stress enough that those who are paying nothing for this game must not expect the game to be the same fun-factor as "paid for entertainment". Nothing is free (unfortunately) and the only question you personally have to ask yourself: "is the fun I get from it actually WORTH it", both in time and money spent?

Also, from a business perspective I'd expect that at this stage of development, they want to cash in as much as they can. Once the game is in most parts done and main purpose is maintenance, "community management" and maybe certain updates, they may change the game to be more fun even if you don't pay. But for now, I can perfectly understand why it is as it is.

Now back to the original statement in the heading of this thread together with my personal answer: You can't prevent bad players piloting mechs "worth" of millions of c-bills (equalling hours/weeks/months of free-playing) as long as you can trade real cash for ingame cash: Buy a mech with MC, sell it for c-bills, gone are all your money-grinding days. To somewhat counter this, it is very good that XP still can only be gained from actually playing...

And one last comment on newbies/freeplay-scum: Why can't you accept that this game is still in development, in particular that balancing, looking both at the software (weapons, heat etc.) as well as the players (groups, matchmaking), is still in large parts "work in progress"? Until PGI proclaims "NOW it is finished, it is as we intend it to be", deal with the game as it is making suggestions to improve the experience rather than bashing or demands.

Maybe accept - at this stage - PUGs, bugs and thugs (i.e. impolite human beings killing the fun in the game and forum, although the last one is mainly included, because I was just looking for one more "bad" thing ending with "ugs") simply as a challenge a real seasoned and sklled player, as yourself, should have no trouble at all to overcome...

#260 Karl Marlow

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:14 AM

I think making us pay full price for replacement parts should be implemented. Loosing an LBX-10 or a Gauss should cost 800k to replace.

I'm not sure how all this relates to weather or not "bad" players should be allowed to use expensive mechs is an issue. If they have the cash they can run whatever the hell they want.





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