293 replies to this topic

[Terror Teddy]

ThomasMarik, on 14 November 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

I think making us pay full price for replacement parts should be implemented. Loosing an LBX-10 or a Gauss should cost 800k to replace.

- A possibility to DAMAGE weapons
- A possibility to have repair costs calculated from:
--Percentage of damage weapon
--Percentage of destroyed weapon

Right now critical damage essentially goes from A: not destroyed to B: Destroyed

A sliding scale with mounting equipment malfunction and damages would be damn nice.

[John Norad]

This only works if cheap mechs are viable due to a well designed matchmaking.

Otherwise winning simply outweighs maintenance.

[El Penguin]

ThomasMarik, on 14 November 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

I think making us pay full price for replacement parts should be implemented. Loosing an LBX-10 or a Gauss should cost 800k to replace.

I'm not sure how all this relates to weather or not "bad" players should be allowed to use expensive mechs is an issue. If they have the cash they can run whatever the hell they want.

I hope your not serious... if you are, I can only see that working if this game was like EVE online with free roam world and fighting being one of the gameplay features. That is just way too much for a game where you die constantly and expected to die often. You would have to grind multiple games for sure with that.

[Terror Teddy]

El Penguin, on 14 November 2012 - 07:20 AM, said:

I hope your not serious... if you are, I can only see that working if this game was like EVE online with free roam world and fighting being one of the gameplay features. That is just way too much for a game where you die constantly and expected to die often. You would have to grind multiple games for sure with that.

We would also get situations where a number of players become gazillionares by not dying since payouts would most likely be scaled to balance such costs.

Edited by Terror Teddy, 14 November 2012 - 07:23 AM.

[El Penguin]

Terror Teddy, on 14 November 2012 - 07:22 AM, said:

We would also get situations where a number of players become gazillionares by not dying since payouts would most likely be scaled to balance such costs.

Then whats the difference of scaling payouts higher with high replacement costs and low payouts with repairing items? You'll end up at the same spot pretty much.

Edited by El Penguin, 14 November 2012 - 07:26 AM.

[Terror Teddy]

El Penguin, on 14 November 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

Then whats the difference of scaling payouts higher with high replacement costs and low payouts with repairing items? You'll end up at the same spot pretty much.

But the grind to get A LOT of money would be very, very short if you do not die with such payout. Especially if you run cheap builds.

[Allekatrase]

I wasn't going to post on this because it went so far off topic but here's my idea.

First, your win/loss bonus should be proportional to your maximum repair build for the mech you're fielding. If you lose the match and get utterly destroyed then I think your loss bonus should be close to equal to your repair bill. I would augment this to the point if you launch with less than full ammo or not fully repaired you only get paid for the repair/rearm on the structure/ammo you launch with. Wins would obviously pay significantly more than losses, but I think it should still be related to the mech you launched with.

Along with that I would remove the free repairs/rearm to 75% or whatever it goes to. If your mech was completely destroyed you need to fix it before you can relaunch. No more free stuff. Which won't matter if the loss bonus covers repairs anyway.

This because we are roleplaying mercenaries. What mercenary would accept a contract that they were likely to take a loss on? Would you go into battle when there would be a good chance that the payout was going to be less than your costs for repairs? No, it's bad business. You wouldn't stay in business as a mercenary very long doing things that way. Also, it equalizes costs across chassis. If you field an expensive mech you theoretically have the potential to contribute more and should therefore charge more for your services.

After that, I would dramatically increase participation bonuses because this just needs to happen. Getting the majority of your money just from showing up is a bad model to encourage active play.

That's what I would do.

[Adrian Steel]

The Steel Brothers believe that shoddy pilots should have access to the most expensive and fragile equipment available. The more expensive the better. We rub our hands with glee when they go down like cheap hookers.

I really get my jollies off when the Atlas AS7-K is a trial mech. Incompetent pilots running pillboxes with XL engines work wonders for stat padding.

[Vermaxx]

Duckwalk, on 14 November 2012 - 12:01 AM, said:

Or people could just fork over the cash and get a premium account for the month. No one had a problem paying the $50 for Diablo III or for a $50 game and 5x expansions and $15 a month for World of Warcraft. I don't understand the constant complaints from Free Members.

Either contribute monetarily to the growth and success of the game or shut up and enjoy your free ride.

Not much else to it fellas.

F2P is a sales gimmick, nothing more. They do not actually intend for you to fully enjoy their product and never feel the need to pay. They intend to sucker you in with 'free gaming' and then 'choose' to pay in some form or fashion - often more than if you'd just bought a retail game.

That is why I spent 60 dollars on this game, and will not spend more until something monstrously "worth it" comes out.

Die hard F2P players need to understand these points. F2P is not about YOUR FUN, it is about THEIR MONEY. They stand a better chance to make more tiny sales from people who quit, versus people who motivate themselves to pay endlessly to get their money's worth from the monthly fee.

Grizley, on 14 November 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

If you want to make money, make it free to play Inner Sphere and you want a clan pilot you plunk down 5,000-10,000MC. Clan mechs MC only. No repair or ammo cost for clan.

You will make money.

People who enjoy the game will still play Inner Sphere and you won't have a 90% clan player base. Win/win.

I'd assumed that starting as Clan was just going to be an MC purchase anyway. They haven't got shart-worth of a clue how to do it, so the likely knee jerk will be an MC buy-in for fast profits.

[Allekatrase]

Vermaxx, on 14 November 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

F2P is a sales gimmick, nothing more. They do not actually intend for you to fully enjoy their product and never feel the need to pay. They intend to sucker you in with 'free gaming' and then 'choose' to pay in some form or fashion - often more than if you'd just bought a retail game.

That is why I spent 60 dollars on this game, and will not spend more until something monstrously "worth it" comes out.

Die hard F2P players need to understand these points. F2P is not about YOUR FUN, it is about THEIR MONEY. They stand a better chance to make more tiny sales from people who quit, versus people who motivate themselves to pay endlessly to get their money's worth from the monthly fee.


I'd assumed that starting as Clan was just going to be an MC purchase anyway. They haven't got shart-worth of a clue how to do it, so the likely knee jerk will be an MC buy-in for fast profits.

League of Legends thrashes this argument. Players who have a large time investment in a game that they enjoy playing without having to pay for that enjoyment are far more likely to spend money on it.

If you make a game that is enjoyable to play for free and then have regular content release that can be acquired faster through real money transactions and you have sufficient cosmetic items that are real money only you will have a happier player base that is more likely to spend money on the game.

Trying to squeeze a small purchase out of players before they realize the game is not that great and can only be enjoyed through continued investment and therefore leave is a terrible model.

[Joseph Mallan]

Adrian Steel, on 14 November 2012 - 07:33 AM, said:

The Steel Brothers believe that shoddy pilots should have access to the most expensive and fragile equipment available. The more expensive the better. We rub our hands with glee when they go down like cheap hookers.

I really get my jollies off when the Atlas AS7-K is a trial mech. Incompetent pilots running pillboxes with XL engines work wonders for stat padding.

There are moments when the evil Joe rubs his hands with glee. This is one of them!

[Illegal Username]

Bad Posters Should Not Be Able To Make General Discussion Threads.



(Capitalization)

[Vermaxx]

Allekatrase, on 14 November 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

League of Legends thrashes this argument. Players who have a large time investment in a game that they enjoy playing without having to pay for that enjoyment are far more likely to spend money on it.

If you make a game that is enjoyable to play for free and then have regular content release that can be acquired faster through real money transactions and you have sufficient cosmetic items that are real money only you will have a happier player base that is more likely to spend money on the game.

Trying to squeeze a small purchase out of players before they realize the game is not that great and can only be enjoyed through continued investment and therefore leave is a terrible model.

Everything I've heard about LoL says that I can buy anything I want without spending any real currency, as long as I waive custom skins. Why would I pay for custom skins when I can get a new hero to work on FOR FREE?

I'm still waiting for someone to show me profit figures for LoL ITSELF, not the parent company. I know they got bought for a giant sharton of money, but I haven't seen anything about how much LoL makes alone. I suspect the game has huge profit potential but doesn't actually make a lot.

The other thing I want to point out keeps getting ignored: STOP PAYING REPAIR FEES. I repair internals, top off ammo it if is cheap, that's it. 75% armor on a pug has done me better than some 100% and teamwork matches. Yeah, I'm getting premium right now, but that is going to stop when the button comes in. Even without it, I'll be making more than a trial mech and I get to use the gear I want.

Will this system last forever? Theoretically no, but who can say? Considering how delayed Community Warfare is, I half expect the game to lawn dart before then. I don't think repairs should be optional, I think they should be automatic and deducted on the match summary screen. But as long as there is a system I can abuse, I will abuse it.

[Allekatrase]

Best I can do with 3 minutes on google http://www.businessi...1-riot-games-51

You buy champions because it can take a long time to grind for the in game currency to unlock them for free depending on how often you play. Also, a ton of people buy skins for the champions they like at $5-$10 each.

And I understand your question. If you can get it for free why would you pay for it or why would you pay for cosmetic things that have no impact on the game? I wouldn't, but tons of people will. Especially once they get into the game and really like it. Then they like to personalize their characters somehow.

That is what MW:O is missing right now. The big profit makers should be these cosmetic things but they're not even implemented at all now.

[Orzorn]

Allekatrase, on 14 November 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

Best I can do with 3 minutes on google http://www.businessi...1-riot-games-51

You buy champions because it can take a long time to grind for the in game currency to unlock them for free depending on how often you play. Also, a ton of people buy skins for the champions they like at $5-$10 each.

And I understand your question. If you can get it for free why would you pay for it or why would you pay for cosmetic things that have no impact on the game? I wouldn't, but tons of people will. Especially once they get into the game and really like it. Then they like to personalize their characters somehow.

That is what MW:O is missing right now. The big profit makers should be these cosmetic things but they're not even implemented at all now.

Its important to note that Dota 2 takes this one step further: You can't even buy champions (you don't even earn champions. Everyone has access to all of them). The only things you buy in Dota 2 are cosmetic items or XP boosts, and leveling up just gives you a free item on each level anyways. You literally can only purchase cosmetics.

And Dota 2 is is widely profitable right now.

That's what PGI doesn't seem to understand right now. You do not need to make your game a grind or less-fun unless you pay. People WILL pay for silly hats and cosmetics exclusively. The amount of money people spend on these is actually huge. One of my friends who used to play LoL spent around 300 dollars on LoL, with probably 250 or more of that being for skins alone.

The game DOES NOT, and in my opinion, SHOULD NOT be a grind unless you pay cash. The fact that the game is fun should be what makes people want to spend money on it. You do not try to force people to spend cash to make the game more fun or make it playable. That only drives people away. You make a game extremely fun and draw people in and then they want to spend money on it to make their experience unique. People who play Ezreal all the time in League of Legends will purchase a skin so they can make their experience more personally. Someone who plays Lich a lot in Dota 2 might trade for all his favorite looking Lich items or buy them from the store.

A customer who is having fun is a customer who stays. A customer who stays is one who gets exposed to purchasable content.

[Niven Ge]

In all honesty, I'll probably never see crazy repair bills. Why?

There is no incentive for me to grind to anything higher than a light mech, since that seems to be the only class I actually enjoy playing as. At the same time, all of my friends have pretty much dropped this game so the fun part of the game is gone, too. My computer is just barely enough to run this game at a playable state, using any other program, like Teamspeak is enough to cause MWO to be unplayable, so that idea is out the window. (And I swear to god if you say 'lolol get a new computer' I will skin you alive and listen to your horrible screams while I laugh)

In all, there is no reason to play this game anymore for me.

[Flapdrol]

Premium players get more cbills, will be able to run more expensive gear, pay to win.

unless you remove the cbill bonus from all mechs and kill premium time, and that will not happen.

[Vermaxx]

So they're going to make somewhere between 25 and 50 million this year. Yeah, that's pretty decent for one game. MWO would do well to make that much.

MWO also doesn't have the following that DoTA did. AND they're lagging behind in the cosmetic "Make Money" crap in favor of actual work (that gets delayed and implemented buggy). They keep saying "this is beta," so I guess that is why the focus isn't on making money.

Ultimately, this goes back to what I constantly say: MWO in its current form is a really nice demo of the DisneyLand esque Community Warfare dream that has yet to develop into reality. The demo is not doing a great job of addicting people or making money. The matchmaking is terrible because "CW will do that." The economy isn't perfect because "CW will do that." The guns that are perceived as overpowered are that way because "CW will do that." Yeah, you get the hint.

CW is theoretically supposed to give us battle planets, which create hotspots and draw in players. Somehow, that balances skill. The economy can go up or down depending on how many planets your faction holds, affecting the cost and availability of expensive guns and ammo. It also gives a huge meta game goal to the currently-boring gameplay.

A lot of people are suggesting things that are unbelievably premature. Matchmaking wasn't in the demo because it didn't matter, they thought CW would be out before 2013. A lot of things are being tweaked to make the demo a lot more palatable as a standalone product, and a lot of that is going to disappear when CW replaces those mechanics.

I don't think there is any good way to "fix" this gamestate because the demo lacks too much of the end dream. I don't know how they can balance this game to make free players feel more loved, because it is just a demo and it is not 'the game.'

[xRaeder]

damonvile, on 13 November 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

I don't think you should make money at all if you fail misrably in a match and lose..in any mech. The fact that is can so easily be AFK'd is going to hurt it in the long run.

But...I agree the top end equipment should be harder to earn money in when you fail with it. If you can still earn money even in bad matches with it the game will eventually have everyone in them all the time.

Right... let's break the game for all the free players that PUG.

1. Saying, spend money is not a valid counter argument.
2. Saying, join a group is not a valid counter argument.

Free or low spending players will make or break this game. PGI MUST attract them if they want to further develop this game. They MUST encourage free/low payers to keep playing. That currently isn't the case because they have to grind with heat inefficient trial Mechs while we Founders slaughter them.

Sorry, but I would rather lose a few matches because there are trial Mech players on my team, than see them leave and give up and have fewer players playing the game.

Edited by xRaeder, 14 November 2012 - 08:24 AM.

[Vermaxx]

I also think that if CW is as good as they're hoping, there should be a monthly subscription. Free play is a great gimmick, but this game is never going to have the pull of Modern Warfare, or LoL, or anything. It is always going to be largely old-blood fans of Battletech, and the people they drag into the game; plus some internet randoms. I don't see how cosmetic stuff is going to keep the lights on.