#421
Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:57 AM
first person view when you are still alive and fighting!
#422
Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:57 AM
Basically, devs. You need to stop being reactionary and putting in stupid crap no one wants for issues.
Start small and work your way up.
Newbies getting confused on game mechanics (torso twist) early on?
Ok. Lets wait and see if matchmaking clears that up. Clueless newbies playing against other clueless newbies will probably fix that.
Newbies still having issues? Ok, put in a hotkey, toggle in options or even popup before you launch that reminds you that your torso twist is disabled by default. If you are ready to use torso twist, go here and click this to enable it.
Newbies still conrfizzled? Clean up the torso/lower leg indicator in the bottom right to be VERY clear to understand.
Newbies STILL having issues? Create a single player tutorial against stationary mechs that can be launched from mechlab that walks users through basic mech movement and tactics. You already have the assets in game, just use pop up dialog boxes and an empty map.
Newbies STILL having issues after all that? Ok, then yes, lets add in a third person/new player bracket.
Dont just HURR DURR jump to implementing a third person view in reaction to your game being new player unfriendly. No offense, but what other games has PGI developed before this? I dont keep up with all this **** so I dont know what their portfolio looks like to be honest. This all seems very amateurish to me.
*EDIT*
Oh god. I just looked them up on wikipedia.
Yep, this is their first foray into a game that isnt just develop, launch and forget.
Wow. We are ******.
Edited by B4DKARM4, 14 November 2012 - 10:00 AM.
#423
Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:58 AM
Vassago Rain, on 14 November 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:
They all died.
All of them died.
They all died because of third person. This is fact. It's been known for as long as the franchise has existed. Pop-tarting, seeing around corners, not moving, boating, legging - you should know this.
They all died? WTF are you talking about? You are a grade-A *****.
#424
Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:59 AM
______________________________________________________
To: support at mwomercs.com
Subject: 3rd-person gaming MUST BE segregated from 1st person players.
Body:
Although PGI said 3rd person was not going in the game, seems like things have changed. My usual PGI-friendly, supportive tone has now changed, too. I have to state this explicitly and vocally, but the 3rd-Person gaming Mechanic is inarguably a fully-fledged "cheating measure" that is used to look around corners and obstacles, and so it ABSOLUTELY CANNOT be mixed with 1st-person gaming unless you confer significant combat bonuses to co-dropped first-person players such as higher weapons damage and damage reduction modifiers. You can't let people just look around corners without stepping around corners. That's cheating. No way around it: You're adding a Cheating Mechanic to the game.
If I ever drop in a Match with players using 3rd-person, I will immediately drop the match and stop playing MechWarrior: Online.
You had better make sure that cheating 3rd-person players NEVER mix with honest 1st person players.
Thanks for your time, and I hope that you'll provide a game that I will continue playing in the future.
-Prosperity Park
#425
Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:59 AM
Vassago Rain, on 14 November 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:
Here's what they're doing.
They're trying extremely hard to completely port world of tanks into battetech. It's not gonna work, and even the russians and euros who play it knows it won't work.
Had that thought, too.
Perhaps they do it to appease the investors.
"Look, it will be just like WoT, and that game is very successful and popular. So what could possibly go wrong?"
What I really don't get is the absence of a tutorial or practice map even though it was crystal clear that MW as a simulation doesn't play like your everyday shooter and people WILL require a bit more time to get used to it. Add to this the fact that more and more gamers today DO suffer from very short attention spans. So why no tutorial?! I don't get it.
And then shoehorn some usability crutch into the game before you even tried to implement a good new player experience.
It's just the wrong way around and like saying "oh we're not going to manage to get that random E3 visitor to understand the controls, so why even try?"
Dear devs, please do the sensible thing:
- Implement a proper tutorial and a practice map
- Add some early game progress
- Activate 3rd person view only in the tutorial
#426
Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:00 AM
Keifomofutu, on 14 November 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:
Driving a mech isn't going to change based on camera perspective. Take any racing game that gives you a button to switch between first and third person -- do you suddenly forget how to drive the moment you press the button? Sure its disorientating for half a second, but all the controls and their reactions are exactly the same. The only difference is that you are visualizing your vehicle in your head instead of actually seeing it.
What they will have to learn is situational awarness of their back which they are suddenly missing, but that would need to happen anyways. This just eases them into it.
#427
Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:02 AM
Thrael, on 14 November 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:
This. While I'm a fan of the first person camera, third person has been proven to work just fine numerous times in the past. Core gameplay has always been about customization and strategy, not getting to watch your bobblehead bounce around your dashboard doesn't change that.
#428
Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:02 AM
Jason1138, on 14 November 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:
if you can choose to not battle people who use 3rd person then why do you care? how will it affect you?
You don't see the obvious problem here?
Look at what was explained as the problem first:
Why and How?
It seems new players have problem with torso twist, legs and movement and the coordination required to pilot the mech, according to Russ.
So they want to help, by showing via the 3rd person view.
They also plan to add a "way" to define wich type of play the match will have: 1st person, 3rd person or both.
This can be done via your House/Merc/Clan settings on community warfare.
So you will be able to choose only to play against other 1st person players, or 3rd, or allow any of the two.
So if new players are going to be mostly choosing 3rd person views how many players looking for easy targets are going to choose 3rd person view knowing most of the players who have been around for a long time are in 1st person mode?
How does making new players easy targets in this way actually help them? This will be no different than 8-player teams exploiting the weight class matchmaking system in the past to get the best possible chance of going against 8 random players so they could score easy kills. Now these same players will choose 3rd person just so they can go kill all the new players learning in 3rd persion view mode.
Becoming easy kill targets in 3rd person view mode matches isn't going to help new players stick around. If this gets exploited as bad as the 8-player weight class matching it's possible this might cause new players to leave even faster compared to the current system.
Edited by Zylo, 14 November 2012 - 10:07 AM.
#429
Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:02 AM
#430
Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:02 AM
flackee, on 14 November 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:
Driving a mech isn't going to change based on camera perspective. Take any racing game that gives you a button to switch between first and third person -- do you suddenly forget how to drive the moment you press the button? Sure its disorientating for half a second, but all the controls and their reactions are exactly the same. The only difference is that you are visualizing your vehicle in your head instead of actually seeing it.
What they will have to learn is situational awarness of their back which they are suddenly missing, but that would need to happen anyways. This just eases them into it.
If driving a mech isn't going to change, then simply focus on training them in first person mode to begin with.
#431
Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:03 AM
#432
Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:04 AM
First, there needs to be an in-game tutorial. PGI, before you start riling up your biggest fans, add in a tutorial mode (or even just an empty local server mode) so people can get used to the controls without having to be in a live match. I'd like to see the standard methods of teaching and retaining newbies used before this sort of thing is added.
Second... we as the community do have an unused weapon in making sure this sort of thing is either not done, or kept tightly locked in some obscure gaming mode (perhaps an unranked or not-community-warfare mode, akin to bot matches in Dota2).
We make plans to cheese the Hell out of it.
Jump sniping? Peeking over hills? If you really want to make sure that the default mode isn't 3rd person enabled, make those awful MW4 tactics that ruin gameplay and chase away new players look like childsplay compared to what it'll be in MWO. I'm sure with all of the new movement, aiming, and recon tactics in MWO, this community can think of even bigger amounts of damage that a 3rd person perspective can do. Then make plans to do that damage.
Historically, PGI has always listened to its vocal fanbase. And looking at that poll, looking at the size of this thread, I'm going to guess that their 3rd Person plans will not be as bad as we think because they'll revise them if need be. But every time PGI has ignored its fanbase, it's always then listened to the players which uses new mechanics to the point of breaking the game. If 3rd person might break this game, then make sure it does so that they remove it or relegate it.
PGI wants this game to be fun. Above all other things. If you really don't want to see 3rd person, prove to them that it's not going to be fun--and if they remain unconvinced, make it un-fun
#433
Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:05 AM
It's absolutely bizarre that they would even entertain this idea...
I mean they are adamant about not splitting the community by creating a PM or PUG MM option but they will consider dividing the community by 1st P and 3rd P?
Makes absolutely no sense...
#434
Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:05 AM
#435
Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:06 AM
That'll make it useful for people learning the absolute basics, but useless to anyone actually trying to play the game. Essentially, a non-whitelisted gamemode.
#436
Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:06 AM
"Third-person mode? Yeah, just press Alt+F4"
#437
Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:07 AM
arkani, on 14 November 2012 - 04:22 AM, said:
So teach'em how to torso twist and keep track of their legs, hurr...a buffoon who can't walk and chew gum simultaneously won't suddenly become able to because you strap a periscope on them.
#438
Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:07 AM
#439
Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:07 AM
Edited by quasihuman, 14 November 2012 - 10:08 AM.
#440
Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:08 AM
Please don't add 3rd person view.
Edited by EvilCow, 14 November 2012 - 10:09 AM.
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