3696 replies to this topic

[Kurayami]

im seriously disappointed with pgi for the last month or so.

[John Norad]

Quxudica, on 14 November 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

Make a small urban map with buildings making narrowish streets, provide the player with a slow (say 45-50 kph max) Centurion (average mech with an average height and profile), and give them way points to follow through the streets. No time limit on the map, could be expanded to include basic targets using a laser/ac/lrm on the mech. Bam you have a rudimentary tutorial in place that greatly helps new players learn the ropes. The only question is if anyone at PGI has the coding skills needed for basic event triggers/AI.

Yep, something like this.
I was thinking about a map with at least three training 'stations':
1. Some fast mechs running circles -> moving target practice
2. Some mechs, probably Atlases just standing around passively -> weapon dps/heat and general target practice
3. One or two mechs with LRMs shooting you as soon as they see you, with their damage greatly reduced -> missle and cover practice

Now the fourth could be a city part like you suggested, for movement practice.

[SquareSphere]

seems kind of moot when we don't have any SERVER/GAME control on "hosted" matches. If they're tying it to community warfare then it's straight up vaporware at this point.

[Ozzalin]

arkani, on 14 November 2012 - 04:22 AM, said:

In NoGutsNoGalaxy podcast "Mechs, Devs, & Beer #2: Russ Bullock" it was announced.

3rd Person view is coming.

Why and How?
It seems new players have problem with torso twist, legs and movement and the coordination required to pilot the mech, according to Russ.
So they want to help, by showing via the 3rd person view.

They also plan to add a "way" to define wich type of play the match will have: 1st person, 3rd person or both.
This can be done via your House/Merc/Clan settings on community warfare.
So you will be able to choose only to play against other 1st person players, or 3rd, or allow any of the two.

I just listened to the entire podcast here, just forward it to 25:00 that is where they are actually saying that YES they will implement 3rd person view into MWO.

Now...
You all know why, because some kids cannot turn their torsos while walking forward. Its too complicated for them, so in this podcast the devs are clearly stating that, they want to implement 3rd person view to target a larger crowd playing MWO...
In other words, they kinda want the WoW player base to come and play here as a nice family game...woopeedooo!

Not only that this will divise the community, but also can you imagine playing in 3rd person, against vets using 1st?
Camera view, yes folks, in 3rd person you get an "Overhead" camera view, which enables you to see further away, all around you, and of course, higher than anybody playing in 1st...
Put simply, this will turn MWO into "easy mode" or if you prefer an "Hand Holding" game.

To calm the angry crowd, they say in this podcast that we will "maybe" have the option to chose our match in 3rd and play only against 3rd person users, or 1st and to play only against 1st person users... "sighs".

My personal suggestion to the devs?
Keep the game as it is, 1st only, and instead of trying to implement all kinda nonsense like this, focus on fixing the stuff we already have, fixing the forum broken links (profile icons) implement the factions and houses sooner, open the store, add more maps, and a lot of it, add in game voices (like Carole from original game) etc etc

So i say NO to Bull ***** 3rd person kid view.
This was supposed to be an FPS only.
You really want us to go play Hawken right?

Edited by Ozzalin, 14 November 2012 - 07:32 AM.

[Agent of Change]

Onyx Rain, on 14 November 2012 - 07:12 AM, said:

Small sacrifice IMO to open the game up to more people...

If you want future MW titles, it is critical for this game to succeed on a large scale, not just with the core BT/MW fans.

I like you Onyx so i'll be nice.

My take on this is not just no but Hell NO!

It seems like a small thing but it really isn't for a number of reasons:

• It breaks the pilot immersion "simulation feel" and would make the game seem even more arcadey, this is a problem.
  
• Not to mention the changing the field of vision / POV changes how the game would be played, more general awareness means a less of a need to be cautious in moving and turning.
  
• Creating a situation where 3rd vs. 1st POV would be unnacceptable and further dividing the player base would be equally bad - you would end up with 4 population segments: 3rd person pug/3rd person teams/1st person pugs/1st person teams
  
• The game needs to survive and thrive on it's own merits as itself, there's a lot of people calling for X change because it would "appeal to a larger audience" but if we make those changes the game won't appeal to many of us. A good tutorial and sand box would be better to bring new players in than a 3rd person POV.

so yeah that's how i see it, technically it might be a "small change" but the impact on the game and community would be much larger.

[Dar_Veider]

¿3rd person view?

No MWO anymore...

[Smudge504]

if someone is to stupid to look at an icon on a map to figure out what is going on with the legs of their mech, then perhaps they are not the kind of people for this game. maybe they should stick to CoD or some other mindless pursuit.

why water down a fantastic game to please idiots who will moan no matter what you do for them? keep it hard core and you will build a better class of gamer and the gaming experience will improve. Take WoT for example, that have made that so simple that a 5 year old can play it, but unfortunately it's lead to the destruction of the game environment you cant play a round without someone TKing or acting like a ******. I don't want that kind of player in MWO

[Viper69]

If it is restricted to trial mechs in trial mech only matches I have no issue with it. Its really a poor learning tool because it develops bad habits and a dependance on that view. Its going to be more of a disservice than good I fear.

[Elizander]

They can have a solution to the 3rd person perspective. Just link it to the first person camera data that remains active in the game. If the LOS of the first person cam won't let you see a mech, it should be invisible to the 3rd person cam as well.

[Marzepans]

He's talking about the 3rd person view being a training camera. I'd be much happier with new players being able to use it for a bit in a few tutorial games before switching to 1st person when they want to compete in the wider meta-game.

[Kousagi]

3rd person view will hurt the game far more then it will help. Very very very bad idea no matter how they try to add it.

All they need to do is make a tutorial mission system. Just like mechwarrior 2/3, heck even bring back deadeye, in a younger version.

[Billygoat]

Marzepans, on 14 November 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

He's talking about the 3rd person view being a training camera. I'd be much happier with new players being able to use it for a bit in a few tutorial games before switching to 1st person when they want to compete in the wider meta-game.

I think we all know that it can never go down this way, though. The moment they add it as a a training tool, then all the newbies who get started using it and very quickly rely on it will immediately start asking for it to be in the rest of the game too. A month later, we're back to MW4 anyway.

Unfortunately, if they're going to implement it, it has to be implemented all the way otherwise it creates more inconsistency.

[Quxudica]

XSive Death, on 14 November 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

While you are at it, don't forget to add in ammo packs and regenerative armour too.

Hawken has health orbs that drop from dead mechs and the ability to self repair in the field by pushing a button, and I believe (though could be mistaken) infinite ammo for your two primary weapons. Hawken does not have third person. Adding third person to MWO would take us in a less sim-y direction then hawken. /sigh.

(note, I don't think hawken is a bad game. it's quite fun. But MWO and Hawken are not the same sub-genres).

Quote

You all know why, because some kids cannot turn their torsos while walking forward. Its too complicated for them, so in this podcast the devs are clearly stating that, they want to implement 3rd person view to target a larger crowd playing MWO...
In other words, they kinda want the WoW player base to come and play here as a nice family game...woopeedooo!

I hate it when people throw this around. WoW is not inferior to MWO, it is an entirely different genre of game in every possible mechanic and respect, MWO would no more court an RPG player then Galactic Civilization would court a farmville player. It detracts from your point when people saying things like that and it makes them look dense. If anything, I'd say it would be the upper brass pushing MWO in Hawkens direction because - for whatever reason - Hawken has hit something of a sweet spot and is doing really well (particularly in pure funding). Well I would say that, but as of right now even Hawkens devs are sticking to cockpit only as far as I'm aware.

Edited by Quxudica, 14 November 2012 - 07:44 AM.

[Comassion]

Third person will help the new players understand torso twisting - yes.

It will also severely hamper the new player experience, as newer players will be using it to figure out how to twist their torsos while the experienced players are spotting them from out of LOS.

Twisting torsos is just one of the hurdles to the new player - the game needs a tutorial far more than that to explain to players the concepts of heat management, weapon grouping, weapon ranges (and minimum ranges), targeting, base capping, how 'mechs die, and basic principles of staying together and not getting yourself killed. 3rd person does nothing for that.

In the absence of a full tutorial, just a playground with a couple static 'mechs that just stand there for you to shoot at at your leisure. People can take all the time they want in there to figure stuff out.

I really doubt that a Tutorial is much harder to make than it would be to try making a 3rd person view while trying to program the calculations necessary to hide 'mechs that you don't have LOS to, as well as the effort that goes into reassessing any game balance issues that the introduction of 3rd person may produce.


If we must have 3rd person, please limit it to Trial 'Mechs. They could use the help then. By the time you're out of the trial 'mechs, you should have torso twisting down - the downside being that now you've coddled the player so much that they're used to 3rd person and will need to adjust.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

[Adeptis]

I am convinced this game is dead. I had perpetually been losing hope over the past few months, when each patch was like a step laterally rather than pushing us closer to a releasable product. The devs are understaffed, the publisher is unforgiving and unwilling/able to provide the resources they need, and the devs continue to fix things that aren't broken. New content shouldn't be added, bugs should be fixed. Don't add a new texture and call it a "new map." Myself and other players see through this kind of thing. We get that the devs are trying to appease us, but don't wave a stick in front of us and call it a carrot.

You know what will appease us and save this game? Fixing bugs. Producing STABLE additions. Fix bugs, then add content, then repeat. This is how all programming is supposed to go. Adding content without fixing bugs will just give you this enormous ******* backlog of bugs and all of a sudden they're too daunting to fix and you've got to make content deadlines and...****! Poof. Game's dead.

I will continue to try to support this game, I will. But if PGI does not undergo a massive overhaul of their programming methodology and stop voodoo fixing problems such as new player difficulty, I may find myself demanding a refund very soon. This is not the product I paid for.

[Kelvan7]

Agent of Change, on 14 November 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

My take on this is not just no but Hell NO!

It seems like a small thing but it really isn't for a number of reasons:

• It breaks the pilot immersion "simulation feel" and would make the game seem even more arcadey, this is a problem.
  
• Not to mention the changing the field of vision / POV changes how the game would be played, more general awareness means a less of a need to be cautious in moving and turning.
  
• Creating a situation where 3rd vs. 1st POV would be unnacceptable and further dividing the player base would be equally bad - you would end up with 4 population segments: 3rd person pug/3rd person teams/1st person pugs/1st person teams
  
• The game needs to survive and thrive on it's own merits as itself, there's a lot of people calling for X change because it would "appeal to a larger audience" but if we make those changes the game won't appeal to many of us. A good tutorial and sand box would be better to bring new players in than a 3rd person POV.

so yeah that's how i see it, technically it might be a "small change" but the impact on the game and community would be much larger.

I agree completely.

[John Norad]

So basically people are having problems getting used to the controls and instead of helping them getting used to it you put in some freaking crutch?!

Holy stupid symptoms mitigation batman!
Seriousy? Seriously? I mean.. seriously? Aren't there enough bad examples already of how NOT to do it?

Sorry for the harsh tone, but I'm at a loss of words.

[197mmCannon]

I just listened to the podcast...

They seriously think 1st person view is holding this game back...

[flackee]

The podcast section thats relevant is about from about 25 minutes to 31 minutes into it. It is also mentioned about 17 minutes in.

Seems pretty clear to me they only want it for training purposes, to help new players. Although that kinda contradicts him saying they want it as a matchmaker option, especially when talking about CW. I would prefer it locked to training only, but as long as you can choose to be in matches are restricted to first person, it works for me.