3696 replies to this topic

[Purlana]

It's already far easier to pilot mechs in this Mechwarrior game then the previous ones. You actually get to use a mouse instead of a joystick...

[Lusankya]

I would only like to see a third person view when you have died and are watching the other pilots duke it out but be able to switch back to first person view as well.

[Elizander]

Daemian, on 14 November 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

I just listened to the podcast...

They seriously think 1st person view is holding this game back...

Well they can give 3rd person a try and we'll see what happens. Maybe more people will enjoy being able to see their mechs walk around.

[Kurayami]

Elizander, on 14 November 2012 - 07:32 AM, said:

...

can you imagine what kind of crap this will be?
We already had this kind of argument and all 3 sides (1st person, 3d person and devs) couldn't come up with possible way to make it work (no advantages but playable) reducing 3d person fow to 1st person fow will result in warping around objects and mechs - kinda not what it is supposed to be. the only way is to implement classic 3d person and divide players by allowing them to chose what kind of matches they want to play - 1st person\3d person\mixed just like matchmaking will divide pugs\premades (which is kinda whsat devs are planning to do i fear). of course if we had like 50k+ active players that should not be a problem, but last time i checked there were way less people.

[Jumbik]

And who would be buying all that cool cockpit stuff that will be in Store? Or they will replace it with hats, shirts, boots and other crap for mechs? HMMMM?

[Punk KMSD]

All the Mechwarrior, and MultiPlayer Battletech, games have been first person. It's part of the flavor of the series.

So, No. No on so many levels of no.

This is Mechwarrior, not Gears of War.

[Oriius]

Billygoat, on 14 November 2012 - 07:37 AM, said:

I think we all know that it can never go down this way, though. The moment they add it as a a training tool, then all the newbies who get started using it and very quickly rely on it will immediately start asking for it to be in the rest of the game too. A month later, we're back to MW4 anyway.

Unfortunately, if they're going to implement it, it has to be implemented all the way otherwise it creates more inconsistency.

Bang on! Consistency is key to learning. It sounds as if they are going to do it no matter what at this point, so all we can do, as beta testers, is leave feedback on it once they do.

I'm not even sure there is a wider group to aim for, or even if there is, that 3rd person is even what would draw them in. Look at the mech lab for example, would the "wider" group find that "easy"? How many people are turned off by complex (or perceived to be) building options?

I just get the feeling making it appeal to a wider group is less likely to result in more money, it seems to me the hardcore who love it will spend more. However I am no Dev, so what do I know?

[Clan Warrior]

WTF to that Russ! Are you serious! 3rd person view already what happened to the motto MWO is simulation? It's still in open beta and already dumb downing MWO?

What's next pay to win? At this point I no longer trust you guys. I still have some little hope but I am cautious now. Not going to invest in MC for now until game goes into release and if I don't see any more dumb down in MWO then by all means you can have my money. If not oh well back to hardcore flight sims thank god Russians still make them. Otherwise my generation would be out of luck but to play arcade dumb *** games that require no brains and no skill to play.

Way to go Russ! Can we have official word that MWO is an arcade game and not simulation anymore? Would be nice to acknowledge this and not hide behind simulation type of game while adding arcade features to MWO. Still no news on HOATS or Joy support ever, never ever, ever never?

You can't have both players Russ you either go full arcade or full sim. There is no in between when it comes to sim that means sim. When it's both then it is still an arcade, more realistic arcade but never the less an arcade game.

PS. Russ why do we have to find this kind of info on some 2nd or 3rd hand websites can you share more info here on our MWO website and explain it so that I can avoid committing seppuku aka hara-kiri?

[Quxudica]

Jumbik, on 14 November 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

And who would be buying all that cool cockpit stuff that will be in Store? Or they will replace it with hats, shirts, boots and other crap for mechs? HMMMM?

I would like a sombrero and white suit/red neckerchief for my Jenner. That may soften my views on this if it happens (not really).

Quote

All the Mechwarrior, and MultiPlayer Battletech, games have been first person. It's part of the flavor of the series.

So, No. No on so many levels of no.

This is Mechwarrior, not Gears of War.

Gears of War is actually a 1.5 over-the-shoulder view, not third person. I can't really think of a straight up third person pure shooter.. Team Fortress I guess?

Edited by Quxudica, 14 November 2012 - 07:50 AM.

[Agent of Change]

Daemian, on 14 November 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

I just listened to the podcast...

They seriously think 1st person view is holding this game back...

Then "they" are idiots... I'm not going to mince words on this.

Lets just speed it up and call it "Call of Warfare: Modern MechWarrior".

Lets not develop things that deviate from what sold well last release cycle, can't have our audiences learning about 'new things' and maybe trying them and maybe enjoying them, that would screw up the ability to tell them what they like.

**** innovation lets just keep chasing the endless "larger audience" until we are all stagnating in a cesspool of creative hegemony.

But what the hell right, at least we'll have the "largest" audience of dissatisfied gamers because not everyone has the same interest but there isn't much choice when all the games in town are the same ******* game.

*hyperventilating*.... wow, i apparently feel strongly about this.

[Devils Advocate]

They want your money, there is no brand loyalty or playerbase loyalty. I haven't said it before, but I'm singing the tune now. Every time I hear about how ECM is staying internal because it needs more testing I get a little more pissed off. No one is testing patches, period, how else would the LRM arcs have gotten through after two solid weeks? They sit there are congratulate him on reading the forums when clearly they have a community manager that filters ideas to them and nobody actually watches the boards. They don't give refunds for mistaken purchases that have never been used, submitted literally minutes after those purchases are made, even though they bend over backwards to remind us all this isn't a full release, it's still a beta test. These people have no tact, and the publisher is clearly in control here. They are adding features to bring in new players without fixing existing features that are crushing the gameplay experience. I'm pausing next week and hopping back on if they start working this all out and fixing the things that are broken.

And he isn't suggesting that it'd be a queue or matchmaker option he just said clans can choose not to use the feature, which is absolutely ******* ridiculous because any clan not using it is putting themselves at a disadvantage. Goodbye simulator.

[Adrian Steel]

Disclaimer: I didn't listen to the NGNG podcast. Is this thread a troll?

Vassago Rain nails it here gentlemen.

Implementing 3rd person and making it optional will probably mean more brute revenue for PGI. All the scumsuckers will start playing and throwing money at the screen for pretty lasers and explosions. This is the sell-out option.

3rd Person view is a travesty because of the tactical benefits it gives and the sapping of immersion. Light mechs in the scout role will be used less. It's an affront to the feel and spirit of Mechwarrior and Battletech. This will split the community.

Edited by Adrian Steel, 14 November 2012 - 07:53 AM.

[Tuonela]

Cons:
1) Lights will become less effective. Heavier mechs can keep track of where they are even when in not direct line of sights and line up shots better. Around corners, while circling, etc. This will directly affect the viability of fast and speedy mechs.

2) This will become a hug the corner snipe fest where people just peek out when they know they have a shot. You literally have to expose one arm with Gauss and just keep firing (Cents and Dragons will be popular).

3) Scouting, spotting, will become less effective as you can see around and over items. Again, lights will become less viable.

4) LRMs will become near useless. You can hide behind buildings and still see where the enemy is.

5) How the hell with targeting work? Can you target something YOU can see but your MECH can't see? Thats going to be confusing as hell for newcomes if you can't.

6) I think in super short-range brawls it will be difficult to see what body part on the enemy you are aiming. Well, on second thought, maybe lights can have a better shot at standing right in front of an Atlas now because you can't see wtf you're aiming at when you POV is behind the Atlas.

Pros:
1) Easier to understand what/where your mech is
2) Easier to keep situational awareness
3) Easier to manuever against those pesky lights
4) Pretty camo
5) Easier to spot the enemy, avoid LRMs, fire without taking fire

[Quxudica]

Agent of Change, on 14 November 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

Then "they" are idiots... I'm not going to mince words on this.

Lets just speed it up and call it "Call of Warfare: Modern MechWarrior".

Lets not develop things that deviate from what sold well last release cycle, can't have our audiences learning about 'new things' and maybe trying them and maybe enjoying them, that would screw up the ability to tell them what they like.

**** innovation lets just keep chasing the endless "larger audience" until we are all stagnating in a cesspool of creative hegemony.

But what the hell right, at least we'll have the "largest" audience of dissatisfied gamers because not everyone has the same interest but there isn't much choice when all the games in town are the same ******* game.

*hyperventilating*.... wow, i apparently feel strongly about this.

Erm, problem with the CoD analogy is that not only is CoD First Person Only - they also lock their Field of View extremely low so you have a very limited First Person view. Granted the FoV thing is more to eek out a little more fidelity from the ancient consoles and not really a gameplay benefit thing but still.

Yeah in at least the area of Perspective, Call of Duty would be a more immersive sim experience then MWO would be if it went through. This makes me a sad panda..

[cmopatrick]

Punk KMSD, on 14 November 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

All the Mechwarrior, and MultiPlayer Battletech, games have been first person. It's part of the flavor of the series.

er... while i preferred to play them fp, most of the open servers allowed 3rd person (MW:4 et.al. was the worst). and i'm not talking about the nh/ua crowd. most times i dropped with teams, i was pretty much told to pilot 3rd or i would be a liability to my team... and i HATED (too mild a word) it. lack of analog js in this upsets me, but an open 3rd like MW:4 would (rhymes with "duck"). period.

Edited by cmopatrick, 14 November 2012 - 07:57 AM.

[Lane]

I hope they introduce 3rd person next patch for testing purposes, and a reality check.

[Niven Ge]

I'm not sure if 3rd person is right for this game, and I'm someone who actually prefers 3rd person.

Granted, I'll probably always end up playing 3rd person. Not because I'm of poor skill or want to exploit things. Only because it looks pretty.

In MW4, the controls and movement was so clunky, it was only really playable in 3rd person for me. In MW:O, it is extremely fluid and I could play in 1st person with no issues at all.

[flackee]

Daemian, on 14 November 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

They seriously think 1st person view is holding this game back...

Russ brought up E3 specifically, watching new people play the game. They have much more resources than you to watch new players experience their game (unless you are taking it to expos and showing it off), they are going to know better than you or I what the major hurdles are.

Most of the people here, posting on this forum, have played the game for months and know many of the gameplay mechanics by heart. Many have played MW games prior, and already knew most of it going into this one. That makes most of us completely disconnected from the new player experience. What is holding the game back for us (a subject in itself) is not the same as whats holding it back for new players. If you can't get them hooked at the start, then the rest is a moot point.

Easing the learning curve into the game benefits everyone. Keeping the skill ceiling high (First Person only) benefits/appeases the core fanbase. They know this, and they are trying to accomplish both at the same time.

Edited by flackee, 14 November 2012 - 07:57 AM.

[Signal27]

Tuonela, on 14 November 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

Cons:
1) Lights will become less effective. Heavier mechs can keep track of where they are even when in not direct line of sights and line up shots better. Around corners, while circling, etc. This will directly affect the viability of fast and speedy mechs.

2) This will become a hug the corner snipe fest where people just peek out when they know they have a shot. You literally have to expose one arm with Gauss and just keep firing (Cents and Dragons will be popular).

3) Scouting, spotting, will become less effective as you can see around and over items. Again, lights will become less viable.

4) LRMs will become near useless. You can hide behind buildings and still see where the enemy is.

5) How the hell with targeting work? Can you target something YOU can see but your MECH can't see? Thats going to be confusing as hell for newcomes if you can't.

I would assume the MWO developers would implement 3rd person the same way World of Tanks does it: If you can't see the target from inside your tank (1st person view) then you can't see it from outside your tank (3rd person view) either. Unless a team mate is spotting it for you.

[Billygoat]

Devils Advocate, on 14 November 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

They want your money, there is no brand loyalty or playerbase loyalty.

Apparently they don't want any more of my money.

Heck, they've got 120 big ones out of me and maybe that's enough for them. But I'm the kind of person who would continue to spend into the long term for a game like this. However...