3696 replies to this topic

[Catalinasgrace]

I do NOT want 3rd person during a match at all...

However something that I think would be nice to have is a 3rd person option once you die, or are in spectate mode... I only say that for getting some nice screenshots... lol...

[Keifomofutu]

Adridos, on 14 November 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

YUUUUP

[Vassago Rain]

BoldarBlood, on 14 November 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

i think 3rd person view is a great idea. think about all the people who usually play games on their xbox360 who are used to action games with 3rd person view. they will like this game so much more! and i also think mwo needs a cover system. like when you hit a button, then the mechs moves automatically into cover and then he raises his arms over the cover to shoot out of its cover. and we need archievments too! like "awesome! you managed to move forward! well done!" ...oh and health regeneration! we need health reg! so when you are in cover, your armor repairs itself. so yeah, give us a cool console game! im in for it... and my dog too!

Even if it's in jest, casualfest shooters are almost all in first person, co-op, easy-digest, over-the-shoulder shooters, with low FOV. They're doing this because god knows why.

[TrentTheWanderer]

Adding a third-person view is playing to the lowest common denominator, and will incorporate many problems while offering solutions for none. This is not the kind of feature this game needs, and implementing it may serve to greatly reduce the overall gameplay experience for most, if not all, of the playerbase.

Perhaps this is one best left for other, non-simulator titles?

[Anastasius]

Sadly in order to make money, the powers at be must appeal to the windowlickers.

I like playing in 1st person for the simulator feel of it. I really disliked 3rd person in the orignal MW series.

I was hoping to see a reincarnation of MPBT:3025 but I do not think there are enough of us Sim type players to support a 1st person only game.

Adding different ques for 1st and 3rd person seems like a good compromise but how does that work when you start w/ the campaign?

[DeathofSelf]

[flackee]

Oriius, on 14 November 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

I'd be interested to hear from people who are for it, why exactly you think it would be good?. Again if it is to do with making it eaiser for newbies (such as myself btw), then could you also explain how you think the mechlab would look to such people?

I was against it entirely before listening to the podcast, but Russ makes some valid points. No matter how much you tell them in training/UI, or even in person, there is no substitute for seeing what your mech is doing.

I have literally been playing mechwarrior games for 20 years, so I have no clue what is holding new users back. These are people who have been taking their games to shows and whatnot and watching people completely new to the franchise play. Despite being against it themselves initially, they now think its a valid idea. I support it because I defer to their experience, though im still against it for non-trial players.

The mech lab needs work as well, but its slowly getting there. That is kinda a different subject though, because when people can customize their mechs, they have already played for 40 games or whatever and have a good idea of if they like the base game or not. At that point its like 'Well, you like the game enough to get this far, so if you want to delve deeper, you are gonna have to read some stuff". Right now the detailed info is around the forums and not in-game, but even WoW has been like that for the endgame.

Third Person camera is just getting new players hooked into the game, as opposed to them not knowing whats going on and deleting the game in frustration because they cant see their legs are pointed in a different direction. It seems silly to me, but I've been familiar with that concept for decades.

[arkani]

Catalinasgrace, on 14 November 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

I do NOT want 3rd person during a match at all...

However something that I think would be nice to have is a 3rd person option once you die, or are in spectate mode... I only say that for getting some nice screenshots... lol...

Great idea, let me rush the other team in my commando and die.
Then i can just hover in 3rd person view in the map and tell my teammates where all the enemy mechs are, i´m just "spectating".
This is way better than having to real scouting. Who need's tactics if you got 3rd person view.

[John Norad]

Keifomofutu, on 14 November 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

If PGI is actually worried about their new player retention then here is what they need to do.

STOP FORCING PEOPLE TO GRIND FOR HOURS IN TRIAL MECHS.

You need to coddle new players a bit. Not stuff them in the worst mechs in the game with zero progression for hours at a time. Its probably a good four hours before you can get in a half decent mech like a jenner and a bit longer for a hunchback.

Remember most players aren't all stoked to get a commando.

True. Especially since the stock Commando is pretty lackluster (hint: not fast enough, too hot, ammo costs, ..) and matchmaking will probably match you with a jenner on the enemy team.

[Skwisgaar Skwigelf]

DO

NOT

WANT

[Mezzanine]

This is a terrible idea. If it's going to be implemented, please make it the last priority, as there are so many features that still need to be included.

As far as situational awareness and piloting issues go, why not add a piloting module that gives Picture-in-Picture with a rear-facing camera?

One of the few things that really sets this game apart is its uniquely 1st-person view and commitment to maintaining a sense of the simulation. Please don't leave that design principle behind.

[Elizander]

Keifomofutu, on 14 November 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

If PGI is actually worried about their new player retention then here is what they need to do.

STOP FORCING PEOPLE TO GRIND FOR HOURS IN TRIAL MECHS.

You need to coddle new players a bit. Not stuff them in the worst mechs in the game with zero progression for hours at a time. Its probably a good four hours before you can get in a half decent mech like a jenner and a bit longer for a hunchback.

Remember most players aren't all stoked to get a commando.

I'll completely agree here. Maybe PGI can pull out the data on how many new accounts give up after certain points in time. Before buying their own mech, right after buying their own mech, after buying a heavy or assault mech, etc.

The new player experience needs to be seriously looked and and prioritized. I'll trust that they know what they are doing but I'm surprised that this and the store were not finished before they went open beta. They could have at least put 3-5 bobbleheads for sale there and 1-3 camo skins.

[Vassago Rain]

flackee, on 14 November 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

I was against it entirely before listening to the podcast, but Russ makes some valid points. No matter how much you tell them in training/UI, or even in person, there is no substitute for seeing what your mech is doing.

I have literally been playing mechwarrior games for 20 years, so I have no clue what is holding new users back. These are people who have been taking their games to shows and whatnot and watching people completely new to the franchise play. Despite being against it themselves initially, they now think its a valid idea. I support it because I defer to their experience, though im still against it for non-trial players.

The mech lab needs work as well, but its slowly getting there. That is kinda a different subject though, because when people can customize their mechs, they have already played for 40 games or whatever and have a good idea of if they like the base game or not. At that point its like 'Well, you like the game enough to get this far, so if you want to delve deeper, you are gonna have to read some stuff". Right now the detailed info is around the forums and not in-game, but even WoW has been like that for the endgame.

Third Person camera is just getting new players hooked into the game, as opposed to them not knowing whats going on and deleting the game in frustration because they cant see their legs are pointed in a different direction. It seems silly to me, but I've been familiar with that concept for decades.

Are you taking the stance that someone cannot figure out how the most primitive and obvious viewmode doesn't work? These people never played a shooter, a racing game, a flying game, or anything?

[Busukaba]

So, let me start off by saying that I'm not good at this game. I'm an average pilot at best. The thing I really don't understand is how can you not tell which way your legs are pointing? All you need to do is glance at the mini map every once and a while... the arrow points in the direction your legs are moving.

When I'm in my Commando and in a fight with a Jenner I do sometimes get hung up on the corner of a building in Forzen city when we're circling, but that's because, as I said, I'm an average pilot at best. I call bullsh*t on noobs can't pilot with torso twists so that's why 3rd person is needed. 3rd person is needed because people are too used to consoled versions of MW or games where you can switch from 1st to 3rd person view. If I have a choice in games I always play 1st person so I would stick with it here.

Depending on how they implement it, though, it would kind of be gamebreaking for light mech pilots. Their bread and butter is to circle behind larger Mechs and blast away. Unless there is some limitation to viweing behind or to the side and you can't just zoom out forever, this is a horrible adaptation. To disguise it as something which will make the game more noob friendly is just weak sauce.

[Rathe]

You guys might want to actually listen to the podcast.
http://nogutsnogalax...2-russ-bullock/
There's the link for the info. I was really turned off by third person, but Russ seemed to be pretty confident that it would only be used for the very newest players, and you'll be able to mark 'only play 1st person.'
The 3rd person stuff is all talked about at between 19:00 and 23:00 in that podcast.

Transcription:
Russ bullock: "for me, first person is the way mechwarrior is meant to be played. I was actually really against 3rd person for a long time. I'm beginning to realize that was a mistake. Originally in closed beta, first person was for the really hardcore fans. The most complex thing for new player is the torso aspect, believe it or not. At E3 or some trade show, a totally new player steps up to the game and moves his mouse, seeing the screen movement he expects that he's moving that way like any other shooter. They don't realize why they are running in place. of course, what they don't realize is that they're running into a building, and it's just that little aspect of torso which is the number one hardest thing for new users. The only way to truly show people what's happening in the game is 3rd person."
"the tanker anology helps a little bit, but you can tell people they're driving a tank all day long and it doesn't really sink in. why is world of tanks so damn easy to play? It's cause you're staring at your tank. you can see which way you're driving. The biggest concern I had with 3rd person was I didn't like the peeking around corner thing. but there' sno denying that if we want MWO to acheive the next level of players is that we need 3rd person"
"First and foremost, we're totally caucausing what the hardcore player base wants. If you don't want to play 3rd person and you don't want to play 'against' people in third person, we're making that an option. think of third person like a training camera. if for the first few hours, someone gets to view 3rd person camera angle that teaches them how the mech functions, and then a few hours into the game they pop into first person to experience the more advanced aspects of the game, the mercenary aspects, the CW aspects. think, 'here's how we train people how to play the game.'"

I'm really finding that hard to argue against. As long as my 'srsbzn' mech game is first person, then third person will only make it easier to get new players into the game.

[GT Hawk]

I don't want it. BUT atleast they would allow people to select if a match can be 1st 3rd or both views. So we just make dam sure 1st always selected and let the few who want 3rd play by themselves. that would be the ONLY viable compermise. that said NO3rd person is the best option.

[FactorlanP]

3rd person view will be the deal breaker for me

[tenderloving]

I feel really bad for the Founders. "Thanks for supporting us based on what we told you the game was going to be. Here's a big middle finger."

[Aidan Malchor]

I don't want 3rd person view as that just dumbs things down for those that don't like to pay attention to what's going on. All those Atlas, Cat, and Awesome pilots who just sit there lobbin hurt into the battlefield that don't realize they are getting smoked in the back should have to be aware of their hud and readouts.

They shouldn't have their hands held through the game.

[Vassago Rain]

Rathe, on 14 November 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

You guys might want to actually listen to the podcast.
http://nogutsnogalax...2-russ-bullock/
There's the link for the info. I was really turned off by third person, but Russ seemed to be pretty confident that it would only be used for the very newest players, and you'll be able to mark 'only play 1st person.'
The 3rd person stuff is all talked about at between 19:00 and 23:00 in that podcast.

Transcription:
Russ bullock: "for me, first person is the way mechwarrior is meant to be played. I was actually really against 3rd person for a long time. I'm beginning to realize that was a mistake. Originally in closed beta, first person was for the really hardcore fans. The most complex thing for new player is the torso aspect, believe it or not. At E3 or some trade show, a totally new player steps up to the game and moves his mouse, seeing the screen movement he expects that he's moving that way like any other shooter. They don't realize why they are running in place. of course, what they don't realize is that they're running into a building, and it's just that little aspect of torso which is the number one hardest thing for new users. The only way to truly show people what's happening in the game is 3rd person."
"the tanker anology helps a little bit, but you can tell people they're driving a tank all day long and it doesn't really sink in. why is world of tanks so damn easy to play? It's cause you're staring at your tank. you can see which way you're driving. The biggest concern I had with 3rd person was I didn't like the peeking around corner thing. but there' sno denying that if we want MWO to acheive the next level of players is that we need 3rd person"
"First and foremost, we're totally caucausing what the hardcore player base wants. If you don't want to play 3rd person and you don't want to play 'against' people in third person, we're making that an option. think of third person like a training camera. if for the first few hours, someone gets to view 3rd person camera angle that teaches them how the mech functions, and then a few hours into the game they pop into first person to experience the more advanced aspects of the game, the mercenary aspects, the CW aspects. think, 'here's how we train people how to play the game.'"

I'm really finding that hard to argue against. As long as my 'srsbzn' mech game is first person, then third person will only make it easier to get new players into the game.

These are not good developers, and their confidence would have seen the game go open beta much, much soone than it ended up doing.

Do you not remember?