3696 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

Agent of Change, on 14 November 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

And I say this with all possible sensitivity if someone leaves because they cannot spend the time to figure out a new (new to them) mechanic all that really isn't all that complicated they should probably go find a game better suited to their problem solving abilities. That said we don't have to make it hard on them, I mean there is already the little arrow on the mini map that points in the direction of you legs that i even find invaluable.

There is no reason why there couldn't be a little directional arrow somewhere on the HUD showing which direction your legs are pointed in comparison to your torso. They could try to make understanding the concept easier and elevate peoples abilities first, rather than writing them off as morons and instituting a game changing perspective shift because you don't expect them to be able to handle it.

A new player should have no reasonable expectation of jumping in a new game and being awesome at it, especially not when that game has mechanics they may be unfamiliar with. The solution is not ditch the mechanics because of QQing, and I'm not good at this because it's different is not a valid complaint.

There are like three arrows that show you where your limbs are pointing.

[Keifomofutu]

flackee, on 14 November 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

In my job this morning, I had to point out to someone that they should enter their username in the 'username' field and their password in the 'password' field, after they did it wrong. So yeah, I think some people cannot wrap their heads around the concept of an independent torso twist without a visual aid. Also, most shooters, racing, and flying games do not have that concept. Some have independent head twisting, but they dont usually move your cockpit with the head.

I would be ok with someone like that forgetting how to breathe and expiring. Yes even a hot chick.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 14 November 2012 - 09:25 AM.

[Purlana]

Rathe, on 14 November 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

ingame tutorial at this point is ridiculous. It would require all the work of making a new map, plus a lot of stuff that isn't even in the game (like voice overs), and it would have to be updated EVERY TIME they added new content. That's a ton of work. 3rd person is checking a box for them.

Use existing map.
Use text instead of voice overs.
Include stationary mechs, as targets.
Add way points.

Profit.

[EvilCow]

This idea is so bad that it could really become true.

[Ozzalin]

Axxer, on 14 November 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

To bad I really liked this game, then i have to play a little more until third person comes and i have to leave this game.

I have the feeling that, for a lot of us, it's soon gonna be?
HAWKEN TIME!

And you know what? I loved MWO so much, that i was that close to buy the founder member pack but was a little too late to get it. Now i truly think i should say: THANK GOD, i didn't.
I do feel very bad for the vets that bought those packs. They are the one being cheated here being honest.

If the devs truly release the game as soon as they are saying in the podcast, and on top of that implementing easy mode 3rd person view as a fully in-game playable mode...
Then i, as well, since i sadly spent 100$+ on MCs and Premium Time already, will play as long as i can, untill i leave.
Amen to that my friend!

Edited by Ozzalin, 14 November 2012 - 09:27 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Rathe, on 14 November 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

This stuff will not happen in CW and merc corp stuff. all 'serious' MWO play will still be first person. Third person will just make it easier for a total noob to get into the game in the first place. If you don't like all that crap, check the box for 'first person' and even your pug matches will be first person only.

That's not how it works, because 3rd person is a major advantage. People are going to have to practice in both modes, yes? One is simply better, so who cares about the ancient, bad one.

Just like in other mechwarriors. Once they add this, the game will magically lose 90% of the founders, including myself. I have zero interest in replaying MW4 or MW3 again, which is where this is headed.

[Rathe]

tenderloving, on 14 November 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

It's called a tutorial. It's something that every modern game has, and something we should have seen over a month ago. I don't think PGI will find a good way to train new people, because at this point it's obvious they don't know what the **** they are doing.

ingame tutorial at this point is ridiculous. It would require all the work of making a new map, plus a lot of stuff that isn't even in the game (like voice overs), and it would have to be updated EVERY TIME they added new content. That's a ton of work. 3rd person is checking a box for them.

[Josef Nader]

Hey PGI:



Bottom right. There's your solution to new players not understanding torso twist. No balance-****, no magical seeing around corners, no eyes in the back of our heads. Just an accurate representation of where all our little bits are pointing on the HUD that new players can easily see and understand.

Put some damn thought into your solutions, *******.

[flackee]

Keifomofutu, on 14 November 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

So because some player at E3 doesn't GET the game in two seconds we need to remove the entire simulator and immersion aspect of MWO?

Totally agree with that, but they made it quite clear they were not removing it. They mentioned making a toggle in matchmaking for third/first person matches (you still get the immersion if you want), but I still think that is cheapening the game. No harm is making the option available strictly for new players, IMO.

[Lightfoot]

Third person view will always allow players to see around corners and over walls and hills without exposing themselves to attack. It has to because you are perched behind your 'mech by at least 10 meters. This then leads to one type of combat commonly called pop-tarting where no one uses the legs of the 'mech except to walk to their favorite wall or hill, then they jjet just enough to fire over the hill and drop back down.

I will just tell you my very earliest MechWarrior experiences. It was MW2 and I found the mech awkward at first so I hooked up my joystick and found it suddenly easy. Within a few months MechWarrior 3 came out and I bought it the day of release. I would occasionally flip to third person to admire the 'mech, but found combat to be easier in first person view. Torso twist had me a bit confused early on, but I just used Torso Auto return. Until I went online for multiplayer. Multiplayer was more competitive and within week or two I had learned to circle-strafe with ease and never turned Torso-Auto Return back on again.

I like the "C" command in MWO better than Torso-Auto-Return because it works out better with two reticles to contend with. I would just tell everyone to try pressing the "C" key a few times so they understand what it does.

And, by the way, the real reason new players find MWO difficult is the 2 reticles to manage, not torso rotation and third person is going to make dual-reticles a nightmare to control. Think about it. Third person has you shooting off-center, now you are going to give them two off-center reticles. I think you will just make new players more confounded.

Do what you want, but keep the above in mind.

Edited by Lightfoot, 14 November 2012 - 09:29 AM.

[Aidan Malchor]

Agent of Change, on 14 November 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

There is no reason why there couldn't be a little directional arrow somewhere on the HUD showing which direction your legs are pointed in comparison to your torso.

There is.

[Quxudica]

Rathe, on 14 November 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

This stuff will not happen in CW and merc corp stuff. all 'serious' MWO play will still be first person. Third person will just make it easier for a total noob to get into the game in the first place. If you don't like all that crap, check the box for 'first person' and even your pug matches will be first person only.

Then you divide a small community, making it harder to get games going. Plus the people whom start the game off learning movement in third person will have to re-learn movement in first person if they even ever want to transition. A basic training map would be far more practical and cause none of these problems.

[Zeh]

Why do you guys suggest playing Hawken as an alternative. Don't you know MWLL plays almost identically to this game? Hell, it even runs on a Crysis engine. Main differences is that it includes Battlearmor and tanks/aerospace/VTOL.

But it's been around much longer. I had hoped this would be the next big thing... those hopes are annoyed by this development.

[Ransack]

so the dumbing down continues.

I can see the end nearing for me.

[Keifomofutu]

flackee, on 14 November 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

Totally agree with that, but they made it quite clear they were not removing it. They mentioned making a toggle in matchmaking for third/first person matches (you still get the immersion if you want), but I still think that is cheapening the game. No harm is making the option available strictly for new players, IMO.

As someone else pointed out that is splitting the playerbase into quarters. Its already going to be split once for 8 vs 8 premade matches. This splits both the premade queues and the lone wolf queues once more.

The result of which is matchmaker working worse and wait times for matches getting longer.

[B4DKARM4]

I wonder at what point the devs are going to take notice of everyone being against this, swallow their pride and nix this stupid *** idea?

I know this is YOUR (devs) game, and you can do whatever you want with it. But this is OUR money. If you want to have peoples continued support you WILL vett your ideas with us before pushing them live or else you will find yourself working on your next project before this one hits critical mass.

Welcome to game development.

[Agent of Change]

Vassago Rain, on 14 November 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

There are like three arrows that show you where your limbs are pointing.

I'm aware of that, but thanks for pointing it out.

What i'm envisioning in the "some people are too stupid to figure it out on their own" argument, that there be a big toggleable, clear as day "you are facing this way your legs are going that way" indicator

Aidan Malchor, on 14 November 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

There is.

You'll note i mentioned there was earlier int he same quoted post.

Edited by Agent of Change, 14 November 2012 - 09:31 AM.

[EvilCow]

Please consider also no heat and unlimited ammo while at it. Removing torso twist would also make it easier.

[Keifomofutu]

Josef Nader, on 14 November 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

Hey PGI:



Bottom right. There's your solution to new players not understanding torso twist. No balance-****, no magical seeing around corners, no eyes in the back of our heads. Just an accurate representation of where all our little bits are pointing on the HUD that new players can easily see and understand.

Put some damn thought into your solutions, *******.

HOLY ****.

How many ER Large Lasers does that thing have?!

[Taryys]

I just wrote a letter to PGI and in doing so I changed my mind, but did not state that there.

Honestly, this game does need more players, and, for some more work they can have the game appeal to a whole different demographic of people - the CoD/BF people. I begin to see this as less problematic if they give us the option to play against those in first or third person views to segregate the player experiences for us. Can this end up being a problem because of the segregation - yes, it is possible.

They are basically able to create 2 games in one, which will appeal to 2 different demographics and will greatly widen the appeal for the game and help its success

That being said, will I play 3rd person and do I want it.. NO!

The real answer for new pilots is a comprehensive tutorial with client side practice arena, and stat based match making, which will educate the newbs and keep them together while they are learning and keep them from getting ROFLstomped

Just a few thoughts.