3696 replies to this topic

[borisof007]

quasihuman, on 14 November 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

No, please don't. Give new players a training mode that is separate from the main game instead so they can learn to play without getting killed.

This

If new players are having trouble with the idea of the torso moving separately from the legs, create a training/tutorial game where players can learn the basics.

[ArmandTulsen]

Omg.... No.................

[Sunoiki]

Aegis Kleais, on 14 November 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

So if I'm understanding you correctly, you want to support the ability to view your mech from some magical entity that exists behind your pilot and provides an omni-directional sightline? Is this supposed to waste time or just be more pointless forum sarcasm?

No, I'm very much against any 3rd person view. I'm just not sure how your proposal helps. Thanks for the unnecessarily hostile reply.

[Pht]

TruePoindexter, on 14 November 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Our friends think we're insane for playing with robots all day

They may very well think we are

Of course, if they want to know if a game is a good mech game ... they'll ask us.

Gimpy Warpig, on 14 November 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

The bigger reason there is SO much backlash vs 3pv is because of FFP freaks being closed minded egomaniacs

Your posts that I've seen here seem to indicate you're a pretty close-minded egomaniac yourself. So far you've posted your opinion as if it were fact and called a bunch of people a name that probably doesn't even apply to them.

Quote

its ... sad that something as stupid as whether someone prefers their mecha game in 1st or 3rd person can cause this much angst and ... spewing.

Nobody should be surprised. People care more about what a game looks like on the screen than with the actual mechanics of the game - at least to start with; and america is, if nothing else, an extremely visual-centered culture.

Those that stick with a game tend to "get over" the visuals and become more interested in the actual game mechanics.

Edited by Pht, 14 November 2012 - 06:01 PM.

[ATao]

LethalMezzle, on 14 November 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

Reason #2 - Massively increases people's FOV, meaning that situational awareness is far less important. It's also pretty hard to sneak up on someone who can see pretty much all around him.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!!!!!!!!!!!11111 WE DON'T NEED 3P! PERIOD.

I can't really add anything constructive 'ere cause everything's already said. MWO rocks cause of this hardcore approach where you have to consider everything from INSIDE your mech. Don't break this. Please.

Edited by Alexander Malthus, 14 November 2012 - 06:01 PM.

[Steinar Bergstol]

No. And the reasons have been stated repeatedly by others. Just no.

[Divine Madcat]

Gimpy Warpig, on 14 November 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

The bigger reason there is SO much backlash vs 3pv is because of FFP freaks being closed minded egomaniacs who cannot stand someone disagreeing with their opinions and DARING to actually want to play the game in a view other than ffp.

I know right, the gal of some people preferring one view over the holy of holies - FFP.

Let's all make outrageous proclamations vowing to QUIT and ASK FOR REFUNDS, immediately!

pppfttt.

Not sure why I keep bothering posting about this topic, people will never change, its friggin sad that something as stupid as whether someone prefers their mecha game in 1st or 3rd person can cause this much angst and petty crap spewing.

The biggest problem with your argument, is that first and foremost, this is a sim. It is not an arcade shooter, nor is it a FPS (not sure what an FFP is anyway). The MW series has already seen how badly 3rd person works in mech combat, and people here were excited for a new take on the genre. If you want a 3rd person pop tart fest, please, go play another game...

[Asmudius Heng]

Just adding to the chorus of NO 3rd person.

Everything that is wrong with 3rd person has been stated.

Like most other reasonable people I understand how VITALLY important getting new players into the game is - but quite frankly 3rd person is the most absurd idea to use to try this. There are so many other ways that have been discussed to death on these forums without a peep from PGI.

- Training - MANDATORY with cbill rewards - You can use 3rd person on this ONLY to give new players an understanding of what is happening in the cockpit. Have a bunch of modules they must go through before they get to their first trial mech with a pocket full of cbills and the knowledge of how to move their mech, shoot their guns, manage their heat and ammo, and be able to interact with their team.

This is all that is truly needed to get players to understand the basics and then the game will suck them in - 3rd person is just going to split the community.

In MW4 they had no heat, no ammo, 3rd person options. It was ridiculous. Most serious mechwarriors only went to Forced first person all heat and ammo on. That was real gaming and great warfare - when i dropped into the other servers it was like a comical and surreal atmosphere and the attitudes of those players was hardly encouraging.

It created a cesspool of like minded fools who might have reformed and become a part of the greater community if they interacted with them - but they DIDNT because the community was split.

NEVER split your community. 3rd person as a training tool only and REAL training modules IN GAME not on a crappy youtube video that doest allow the player to FEEL the game without fear of being stomped in the face first time.

New player flow is essential and 3rd person is NOT your silver bullet PGI - you are not idiots, you MUST know this so i am baffled as to why it is being considered unless your market testing has somehow proven that this is the only way to get new players which I would HIGHLY doubt.

[slide]

I have never played any game from the third person perspective. Why?

You do not drive a car from 10 feet behind.
You do not fly a plane from 20 feet behind.
If you cannot walk one way and look another then you shouldn't be walking.

This is either a mech simulator or it is another FPS. Do not turn it into the latter.

If any thing is needed maybe a better indicator on your hud, maybe a slip stream telltale like they have on aeroplanes or an addition to the radar (which is fine now IMO).

If people can't get the feeling for walking one way whilst looking another, god forbid they should ever be allowed to drive a car.

As many have said a tutorial and a training ground would go along way to solving this problem.

In my opinion a rear view camera or wrap around vision bar (as in canon) would be much more useful than 3rd person view

Yet another case of inept whiners influencing drastic changes by the devs where none is needed.

Personal note (at he risk of sounding like a whiner)
If I am forced to play 3rd person just to keep up with the Joneses because they have a tactical advantage, then the end of this game will be near. I've had my $120 of fun and I will be gone.

[IceSerpent]

TruePoindexter, on 14 November 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

I'm going to have to nitpick here about the "semi-working" comment. How is the game semi-working? There are bugs and things that need to be changed yes but it is most definitely working. It's enjoyable and quite a lot of fun and free. I find it interesting that this free experience which is in the almost the same state that MW3 and MW4 were in is somehow "broken" yet I see the same bugs in other AAA first person games that are $60 each and no one complains.

It's semi-working because there are a lot of things that need to be fixed and/or shouldn't have been broken to begin with and, given lack of progress in that area, it seems that PGI resources are spread too thin already.

Exhibit A : Mechlab. It a fairly simple "shopping cart" database frontend, yet it has been plagued by all sorts of issues (crashes, disappearing stuff, not updating properly, no proper item descriptions, etc.) since the start of CBT.

Exhibit B : Weapon balance. While some things like laser bean durations or missile spreads do indeed need to tweaked multiple times before they are "just right", the basic relationships between weapons can be figured out with just a calculator. Especially when you use an existing system as your starting point. Again, has been broken since the start of CBT and the only "progress" we see is swings between "insanely powerful" and "utterly useless".

Exhibit C : Black list / ignore list. This has been asked for since last winter (way before CBT even started). It's a fairly standard and absolutely necessary feature in virtually all multiplayer games. Still hasn't been implemented.

Exhibit D : Lobby / out-of-match chat. Same deal as exhibit C - has been asked for since last winter, standard feature virtually everywhere, hasn't been implemented.

Exhinit E : Matchmaker. The ability to drop against a designated team has been asked for since the start of CBT. Matching by some sort of BV has been asked for since the start of CBT. Instead of fixing the temporary version that only matched by weight class (initially it didn't even match by that), we got a 4-man team limit with phase 2 only making it better if your unit has 7-8 people online (dropping 6v8 with no weight/BV limits vs. another organized team is practically a guaranteed loss), still no ability to do any tournaments, and potentially huge problems with phase 3 (ELO matching) and Community Warfare.

Exhibit F : Unit designations. A small thing really - people have been asking for an ability to add some sort of unit "acronym" to their callsign in game, so that everybody could see who is who and how they are grouped. Still waiting for that to happen.

Exhibit G : Weapon convergence. A convergence system that doesn't tell the pilot where the convergence point currently is and on top of that converges guns on every rock (for no apparent reason btw - why would you ever want your weapons converge on terrain?) is broken by design. We've been asking for a fix since the start of CBT - still waiting for anything to happen.

Plus it would be nice to have more mechs, more maps, more game modes, Community Warfare, etc., but that certainly takes time and qualifies more as enhancements than fixes.

So, with all that on their plate, PGI spends quality time "thinking about 3rd person view", knowing full well that the community passionately hates the idea...really?

[CannonFodder86]

I support 3rd person.....



if the camera is located behind the pilots head.

[Dumbkauf]

3rd person view is a great idea for newbie training area only!!! Don't allow this madness into the actual 'big boy' arena of combat........It is the start to leave why this game is so great and feel of driving your personal Mech. Training yes, actual game no.

[Sevaradan]

CannonFodder86, on 14 November 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

I support 3rd person.....



if the camera is located behind the pilots head.

I think we finally found a compromise i'd be willing to accept

[Skadi]

i dont think ive seen so many "Popular" posts in a singular thread before, including paul threads with other dev guest stars.

[Soy]

Divine Madcat, on 14 November 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

The biggest problem with your argument, is that first and foremost, this is a sim. It is not an arcade shooter, nor is it a FPS (not sure what an FFP is anyway). The MW series has already seen how badly 3rd person works in mech combat, and people here were excited for a new take on the genre. If you want a 3rd person pop tart fest, please, go play another game...

Using that logic, first and foremost - this game is an open beta.

Meaning, it's not finished. Meaning, we're discussing things. Meaning, features may change. Meaning, play experience may change. This is how logic works.

[Pht]

Kickstarter does not give developers guaranteed money.

Are we really going to be arrogant enough to think that we could make a better financial backing choice than PGI when we don't even have all the information that PGI had?

Edited by Pht, 14 November 2012 - 06:08 PM.

[KillerCat]

I'm against a 3rd person view for all the (good) reasons already stated, but I'm not totally closed to try and implement it in another way, say you include some kind of UAV control unit on your mech that give you a 3rd person view in your hud or maybe implement it as a module like the zoom enhancement.

[Zylo]

Soy, on 14 November 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

Why would it make me look like a fool? For playing online games since 1996 and having formed my own opinion that may be different from a vocal group of MW hardcore beta testers that have basically limited their entire gaming world to one specific area and are fearful of the outcome of something they haven't experienced but have certaine expectations about? Oops, did I just speculate wildly about you/others? I guess I did. Ad hominem is great.

Each and every one of the FPS titles that I've played in any serious capacity benefitted from having an optional 3pv that is balanced correctly. Not all of them did feature a 3pv because of balance issues. There it is again, the main issue... The balance is the whole caveat.

Get a grip.

Sorry, all I see here is someone complaining that they are at a disadvantage in the current system.

Also, what makes you think all the hardcore testers have limited "their entire gaming world to one specific area"? Many of the complaints made by players about 3rd person views were made by those who actually had experience playing in multiple game modes.

If you took the time to read the thread you would know this.

And then you tell ME to get a grip?

[Norris J Packard]

No. Absolutely no 3rd Person View.

[Tice Daurus]

I'll say this...DO NOT DO THIS! I've been against this from the start and in this instance, you guys are listening to the WRONG PEOPLE. The voting is overwhelming bad for this and I will not support this game if it goes to 3rd person.