3696 replies to this topic

[Kenyon Burguess]

no 3rd person views. it unbalances the game in their favor, therefore everyone would need to maintain the same advantage to be competitive. i dont want to play in 3rd person i breaks immersion for me, it breaks lore, it breaks my will to play the game.

[EvilCow]

Create trainings like MW2/4 and donate 2M CB *only after* completing the training, result:
1) Guided and easier access to the game for the masses
2) Less clueless pugs
3) No stupid 3pv and happy community

[Cochise]

So the game is failing and you want to add another fail to make a win??

People are not turned off by the hard mode game play of first person. They are turned off by lack of content and clear picture and feeling of progression in the game.

After you have double the content than you do now, if the business side of things is still are not taking off for you adequately, sure, try 3rd person. But if you do it now, you will just alienate the core of your community which came from Mechwarrior titles of the past.

Be patient, further develop content and balance and they will come. But you guys need to realize the invisible line you will cross once you add 3rd person to this game. At that point, for a LOT of people it will no longer be Mechwarrior, it will be something else.

Now if you think you are informed enough at this point to make the gamble that 3rd person is needed to even make the game successful, go for it. But that is a pretty huge gamble at this point.

In my mind, the prudent route is to continue your roadmap and see how things develop a little longer. It is too early at this point to do something that is a radical departure of it unless you are about to go under.

I think this would basically be trying to get rid of fleas on a dog by setting the dog on fire.

Just keep cranking out content and save the fire for the last resort.

[Cnox]

I vote: ALLOW IT.

If people don't like the immersion breaking aspect, then you're free not to use it.

Does it allow an advantage? Not if everyone has it.

I would NOT allow any sort of zoom while in 3rd person view. In this way, you can drop out to the 3rd person view to get some situational awareness (since the free look mode is very cumbersome to utilize). Also, I would lock the camera directly behind the mech and not let them rotate it any way (it points in the direction of your torso) so the effect will just give you more peripheral view and condition of your mech, while also letting the game showcase some of the nice effects of damage and such that you really don't appreciate when in 1st person view.

I do not think this is a matter of catering to a certain player base (unless you consider that strictly allowing only inside-cockpit views caters to the flight simulator player base (and if that's what you're going to restrict your player base to, this game has a life of about 3 months)).

This is a playability issue. First person view will have the advantages that 3rd person view does not (such as navigation, zoom fire, more accurate weapon tracking). 3rd person view will obviously have their own advantages (wider field of view, more self-awareness of what's going on).

I think the rigid attitude of MOST of the other posts in this thread is very very unhealthy to the longevity of this game.

After all, isn't the TT game that this game is so heavily trying to model effectively 3rd person?

Your move...

[Kraven Kor]

Gimpy Warpig, on 16 November 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

What IS TRUE (at least in mw4 online play - cant speak much about the others as I played em but not online) - what IS TRUE is that the 1pv leagues were only a small FRACTION of the 3pv leagues popularity in # of active players and games played. Seems like a very stupid idea if PGI didn't take that into consideration, and I for one was astonished they didnt have it planned since day 1 and are only now coming around to realizing their mistake. I pray they do the same thing with Lobby's or some sort of organized manner to drop soon as well (and to be honest, I think that should take priority over 3pv).

You all need to take a step back away from the imaginary gun you're holding under your chin and chill the f out.

Well, the reason why 1PV was so rare back then was just the nature of PVP gameplay. If there is an advantage to be had, allowed by the game, you use it, or you lose.

Trust me, I HATED all Mechwarrior multiplayer until MWO, pretty much because I wanted to play 1PV and be in a "sim" and you simply could not compete against those using 3PV. MWO is the first Mech game where the Multiplayer is not just fun but awesome and I fear that adding 3PV will ruin that.

Matchmaker has enough trouble without further splitting the playerbase. With 3PV as a "toggle" you would have: PUG 3pv queue, PUG 1pv queue, Premade 3pv queue, and Premade 1pv queue.

Edited by Kraven Kor, 16 November 2012 - 12:43 PM.

[Stoindrae]

Gimpy Warpig, on 16 November 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

What IS TRUE (at least in mw4 online play - cant speak much about the others as I played em but not online) - what IS TRUE is that the 1pv leagues were only a small FRACTION of the 3pv leagues popularity in # of active players and games played. Seems like a very stupid idea if PGI didn't take that into consideration, and I for one was astonished they didnt have it planned since day 1 and are only now coming around to realizing their mistake. I pray they do the same thing with Lobby's or some sort of organized manner to drop soon as well (and to be honest, I think that should take priority over 3pv).

That's because humans are weak minded animals and will, on average, gravitate toward the easier of two roads. If 3pv offers some craptastic advantage to targeting while not being seen, gamers will use it. If boating 2xgauss, xAC/20, 60+LRMs, 6xSSRM2, 9MLas, Jenner+streaks... or any such "FOTW" build is viewed by the community to give some advantage over the enemy (true or not).... players will ultimately use it more often that not in the attempt to give themselves the advantage. It's just the way of it.

What I am trying to say is.... Just because it gets favorable use, does not make it the best option for the sake of balanced game-play

[Garniy Gans]

bad idea...

[Gimpy Warpig]

Rejarial Galatan, on 15 November 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

Red Menace, there is something you need to consider here. While yes, the prior iterations DID have third person view, they all have the same problems: Situational Awareness being taken to levels that should not be there. Forcing ALL players to use 3rd person to remain competitive. Allowing for the ability to see around corners and over hills at no risk to the mech. and the two BIGGEST things on a list as long as our galaxy is wide: Paul Inoyue of PGI as it's LEAD DESIGNER stated in July that this game is being developed as a 100% FIRST PERSON MECH SIMULATOR, AND if you check the how is this game played thingy, it states the very same thing Paul stated. See if they do this, they are now a company of liars and can no longer be trusted by the community as a whole.

more to the point, for ease of spotting:


How does gameplay work?

MechWarrior Online puts MechWarriors into a first-person, team-based, tactical battlefield where the victors swim in the spoils of war and are rewarded with the almighty C-Bill (in-game currency).

Does MWO need or should have 3rd person

• Yes (126 votes [4.52%] - View)
  
• No (2546 votes [91.42%] - View)
  
• No opinion (14 votes [0.50%] - View)
  
• Im indiferent (99 votes [3.55%] - View)

PGI, if you are in fact seeing and caring about any thing we YOUR player base, potential and PAYING client base, we clearly do NOT want this mistake to happen.

Rej, you continue to dodge a primary question - just how in the hell does this break ANYTHING for you as long as they ensure 1pv is locked in at drop time for someone who clicked the "I want to play in 1pv" mode and only plays against others who also clicked that "1pv" view button. And anyone who clicked "I want to play in 3pv" mode play against other 3pv'ers?!? It SIMPLY DOESNT.

[a rabid chihuahua]

I think they already have a game with and out of cockpit view..oh yeah mechwarrior tactics. There really is no reason for 3rd person view in this game for anyone. It will jut make it easier for someone to have a visual advantage over the cockpit view and will take away from the game for others.

[Xantha]

Cnox, on 16 November 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

I think the rigid attitude of MOST of the other posts in this thread is very very unhealthy to the longevity of this game.

Your move...

You hit the nail on the head. MOST people are AGAINST this.

For arguments sake, If PGI needs $1,000,000 a year to sustain itself do you think it will be easier to get that from the For crowd or the against crowd?

2,734 against (approx $365 a year per person)
0,134 for (approx $7,462 a year per person)

Obviously the #s would be a little less given that the poll is a portion of the community, but even if there is a margin of error of 25%, it's still 67% of the community.

Seems to me the ball is in PGI's court not ours.

A lack of response after 3 days of complaints with 92% of the community against this decision is troubling. They either don't care what any of us thinks or are in such financial straights that it doesn't matter.

[Cnox]

I'd also like to address one of the 'cheats' that people claim about the 3rd person view: being able to peek around corners and hills to see enemies without exposing themselves.

To this I say: it is an EASY task to only reveal mechs that the first person perspective would see while viewing in 3rd person mode. In other words, you could look around and see terrain features and the fact that there's buildings and such around a corner, but if there was actually a mech there, you'd have to move your cockpit position and facing into a location and direction that you'd be able to see the mech. I think this would address any cheezing that people have concerns with.

To the people who 'just don't like it because it makes it an arcade game', please grow up. Don't tell other people how they should be enjoying the game. Some people play racing sims (such as dirt 2) in 3pv vs. 1pv. Some people perfer 1pv because of the perspective, same as the people who want 3pv. Did 3pv 'take away' anything from the fact that Dirt 2 is a really awesome racing sim? I'm thinking not. And i think those that say the mere existence of 3pv makes Dirt 2 into an arcade game and not a car racing sim are being very childish.

[Evinthal]

No.

Wait not just no.

HELL NO.

No, not just hell no.

Dear god, HELL NO. If you don't believe in god then replace god with Cthullu, Nergle, Tzneech, Khorne, Flying Spaghetti Monster, or whatever.

I honestly don't care if people have trouble with the whole torso twist mechanic. They should take it as a challenge to be able to adapt to it. Forget the whole third person view thing entirely and shift the resources to other more important things like getting ECM into game, and fixing bugs.

Also do not introduce something that will split a player base even more. If we can limit who we play against via 1st person/3rd person mode it does exactly that.

Edited by Evinthal, 16 November 2012 - 12:44 PM.

[AvatarofWhat]

Gimpy Warpig, on 16 November 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

Rej, you continue to dodge a primary question - just how in the hell does this break ANYTHING for you as long as they ensure 1pv is locked in at drop time for someone who clicked the "I want to play in 1pv" mode and only plays against others who also clicked that "1pv" view button. And anyone who clicked "I want to play in 3pv" mode play against other 3pv'ers?!? It SIMPLY DOESNT.

Dividing the community is a great idea... not! get a clue! They promised us a 1st person only sim and 91.5% of the community insists they stick to that. Only 4.5% even care to have 3rd person implemented. Which demographic should PGI cater to?

So I introduce my friend to MWO and instead of spending a few hours learning to play 1st person and getting used to it, because they have no tutorial he starts playing 3rd person because it's easier to figure out where the legs are pointing versus the torso. Now me and my friend can't play together... how the hell does that make any sense?

[Coolant]

Gimpy Warpig, on 16 November 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

Oh, I did read your entire post. You made a blanket statement that was patently false, and are now trying to back out of it by explaining it away with some other patently false informaion.

Simply put - you told someone who said they would enjoy 3pv being added to go play something other than Mech because Mech games have never been 3pv. Now you're admitting it is, in fact, been a part of Mechwarrior for (guessing here) 20'ish YEARS, but the "mechwarrior community complained ever since they started" - which is simply not true.

What IS TRUE is there has always been a % of mechwarrior players who will do nothing but complain and ***** and whine until they get only the game THEY want to play, and F everyone elses opinions.

What IS TRUE (at least in mw4 online play - cant speak much about the others as I played em but not online) - what IS TRUE is that the 1pv leagues were only a small FRACTION of the 3pv leagues popularity in # of active players and games played. Seems like a very stupid idea if PGI didn't take that into consideration, and I for one was astonished they didnt have it planned since day 1 and are only now coming around to realizing their mistake. I pray they do the same thing with Lobby's or some sort of organized manner to drop soon as well (and to be honest, I think that should take priority over 3pv).

You all need to take a step back away from the imaginary gun you're holding under your chin and chill the f out.

This the truth...in MW4 Mercs the vast majority of open servers were 3rd person, the vast majority of players populated those 3rd person servers...and the majority of league drops were 3rd person...just because the majority of vocal forum posters say they don't want it, obviously there is majority out there that wouldn't mind it at all. If you can prove that the pilots here didn't play MW4 Mercs then you can keep quoting 90% or whatever it is. But, 90%, or close to it, was what people played in Mercs...

Edited by Coolant, 16 November 2012 - 12:45 PM.

[MavRCK]

3rd person view is an option with which a skilled pilot - player can effectively cheat line-of-sight issues, i.e. see around corners, hills, etc. It makes this game less of a simulation and more of an arcade-style game. It's a huge advantage for players like myself who could figure out how to effectively use it.

FYI:

I used this extensively during my days of online MW2:Mercs - my preference was to play 1v1s with an extremely annoying Summoner - 4 Medpulse Laser with infernos, JJs and MASC. Maps with ravines and hills were easy to play hide and seek. I rarely lost.

2 cents.

Great game so far.

[Gimpy Warpig]

o0Marduk0o, on 16 November 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

You have still problems with reading and understanding.
They NEVER said that there won't be 3rd person view! When do you get this into your head?

Marduk, you got that right - they have problems with reading and understanding.

[Cnox]

Stormfury, the 1% is the most vocal here. You don't have the player base that PGI is trying to attract here now to voice their opinions because the gameplay does not appeal to them. Don't you think that making more appealing gameplay to get more players would make the overall game experience better? (more players, more money, more activity, more buzz, more development, more features!)

I posted above how to make the 3rd person view not 'cheeze' by hiding view of enemy mechs that the 1pv would not have LOS to. I think that pretty much would address any concerns (except for those people that 'just don't like it').

And you missed my point about the attitude here: this 'absolutely not or else I'm never playing this game again' attitude is absolutely TOXIC to this game. I wouldn't want to cater to a group of players that are so fickle that something as benign as 3rd person view (with the restrictions that keep it from being a magic see-around-corners described above) makes them quit the game. That's just more of a reason to get players into the game for the sheer enjoyment instead of these misguided principles.

[EvilCow]

Coolant, on 16 November 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

This the truth...in MW4 Mercs the vast majority of open servers were 3rd person, the vast majority of players populated those 3rd person servers...and the majority of league drops were 3rd person...just because the majority of vocal forum posters say they don't want it, obviously there is majority out there that wouldn't mind it at all. If you can prove that the pilots here didn't play MW4 Mercs then you can keep quoting 90% or whatever it is. But, 90%, or close to it, was what people played in Mercs...

And where is now this "vast majority". A volatile kind of players unlikely to generate a significant revenue stream.

[Gihzmo]

If you want 3rd person, fine making a training system, but do not allow people to use 3rd person to build their resources up and have an easy-mode advancement. Make a seperate matchmaker for trials and the ability to use 3rd person, make that a starter area if people are uncomfortable with the controls. Once you have that down, give them a couple million C-Bills to buy their first mech and let them go play.

But to allow 3rd person in regular matches and community warfare.... NO!! I think the majority of the community wants to keep it the way it is. Please do not pander so deeply to people who constantly whine.

[Itarrow]

miSs, on 15 November 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

The only thing I can say, as your Community Rep, is that I read and compile your feedback.

Can you please also refer that I think it's bad, after all this replies from the community, that nobody provides some kind of feedback ?

I know you can't do a lot besides letting them know, so if you already told them that there are several topics, thousands of replies etc., then please tell them there's one player that thinks it's not nice neither professional to throw something out in a podcast and then saying nothing more to customers upset about it, whatever the thing to say it is.

The business is up to Russ, so I unederstand he can take any decision regardless of how I feel and probably he's right and I'm wrong in not wanting a 3rd person view in mwo, anyway what I really don't like and I'm pretty sure it's not good, is not reacting to lot of your customers being upset about something.

Thanks in advance for transfering this to developers and publisher.