89 replies to this topic

[Runz]

Rejarial Galatan, on 25 April 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

pointlessly arguing? hehe made me giggle. My concern is the schism thats going to occur between those with unlimited time and those with jobs, school and the like to deal with ya know?

That's kind of a moot point though isn't it? It's the same with every activity in human history, those who have more time to dedicate to a hobby or skill are going to naturally be better at it than someone who isn't. That's why competitve esports players give up work and move into a house with their team mates (at great personal financial risk to themselves to make it big I might add), it's why real athlete attend daily training seasons.

The reality; this is not going to be like WoW where you join a random BG with no matchmaking. This is a PvP based game - PGI has already stated that there will be matchmaking to balance teams. Basically any game like this would need matchmaking.

Additionally, I have a full time seven days a week job, a missus and two kids. I was still able to fit in a couple of arena matches per night generally and we easily got to 1550 rating. Couple of things I learnt if you want to 'get good' at competitive pvp;

It is always better to play with friends than with randoms, they're more forgiving of mistakes and you can help identify weak spots in each other's play, also you're more likely to effectively communicate which is vital.

It's better to play one match a night than try to fit in 20 matches in one day - you will keep your skills sharper playing consistently than by playing more but with massive gaps between when you get to play.

A lot of the schism perceived by people "who have jobs and a life" is largely just that - PERCEIVED to be a far greater schism or gap than it actually is.

And yeah - can we keep on topic? (says the bloke with the huge off topic post, whoops)

Edited by Runz, 25 April 2012 - 10:30 PM.

[DooMachine]

I'm thinking 3 minutes would be fine. Thats enough time to chat will teammates and pick a loadout. even enough time to tweak something without making everyone who is ready have to wait to long.

I know if I already had my variants setup it would be annoying to have to wait 5 minutes between each game.

[The Cheese]

It depends on when you choose your mech. If a mech and it's loadout are part of the calculations for matchmaking (which I think they really should be), that would mean that you have to choose it before you are put into a game. That means you don't need time between joining a game and the game start to play with it.

Without that, the only things to do are say "hi" to your new friends, state your role, and pick a general strategy for the match. That's why I'm saying 30 seconds at most.

Edited by The Cheese, 25 April 2012 - 10:38 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

guess it really boils down to how matches will be made and so forth. I say 3-5 min now based on your last one cheese

mostly to account for having to type to the team and make sure they know what you mean

[Runz]

The Cheese, on 25 April 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

It depends on when you choose your mech. If a mech and it's loadout are part of the calculations for matchmaking (which I think they really should be), that would mean that you have to choose it before you are put into a game.

That's a good point didn't think of that! I'd still say longer than 30 seconds though for team games. With PuGs you could prob just go with instant action or 30 secs or something.

[Egomane]

30 secs sound a bit to little if you have to coordinate 12 possible random guys and gals.
5 Minutes is to much, so I'd go for one, maybe two, minutes. It also gives you enough time to notice any holes in your company layout to fill and coordinate it with the others, so that not everyone switches to a scout when only one is missing.

And if I listen to people inside the prep-time? Maybe! If, what they are saying makes sense or if I'm in the mood to try something completly new or reckless. I also don't expect them to listen to me.

[Rejarial Galatan]

well, after all, we are tryin to heard cats here. no not timber wolves ya inner sphere nuts

[Gigaton]

Rejarial Galatan, on 25 April 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

I never will, Id rather see a TRO on a tactic than some vague referance to a game that in all honestly, will NOT translate to MWO at all.

For the record, WoT is one of the games the devs have openly been inspired by (or at least individual members of the team, I think it was in David's or Bryan's list).

Rejarial Galatan, on 25 April 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

ALSO, the devs have stated time and time and time again: This game will NOT be Pay to Win. It is PILOT SKILL that makes or breaks the day.

WoT doesn't have pay-to-win in my book. Even in random battles, It's the teamplay/piloting skill of the teams that makes or brakes the fight, though sometimes less skilled teams get lucky.

monky, on 25 April 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

Most plans are on the individual level because getting 15 random goons to follow any sort of cohesive plan is pretty much impossible. You size eachother up and you say 'i'll go here' or 'i'll follow this guy.' Then you roll with it and adapt as needed.

This is what I assume standard MW:O (house) battles will be like as well, until the game proves me otherwise. Maybe I'm wierd, but I actually do love the randomness and chaos of WoT pugs and the necessity of adapting to or improvising on whatever the other random guys are doing.

And as such, the game should not force long prep times.

Edited by Gigaton, 26 April 2012 - 02:26 AM.

[AlanEsh]

Zylo, on 25 April 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

VOIP will be a mess for public games until the majority of players agree on a standard program to use. Good luck trying to get a team to all use the same voice program until some sort of standard is accepted by the community.

Now that I think about it, good luck trying to get the community to agree on a standard public game voice program.

Yeah, I agree this isn't going to happen.
WoT didn't start with VOIP, and I don't care if the prematch timer was 5 or 10 minutes, the vast majority of people wouldn't seek out their match TS or Vent channel (among hundreds or thousands?) prior to battle. And comms security? hehehe riiight

Voice comms are going to exist in the realm of the organized game groups who are here to play as a unit, at least as long as VOIP is not built into MWO. A minute (or at most two) of prep time will allow the leader types to get their basic points across. Asking for more planning than that is going to result in additional pre-match finger twiddling at best.

[Gozer]

I'd like 2 minutes. 1 in WoT is a bit short and 5 just seems too long. Especially in a quick action game like this when you want to "just get at it!"

Now if there was a "pregame lobby" that's different. If there's time while everyone is coming in before the game loads where it's just chat and a map then you can talk tactics there and then load strait into the fight.

[A11eycat]

Yea, maybe i was overreaching when i stated 5-mins, but, like several have already stated, there are four unique roles. The commander alone is going to need to know what everybody is going to do and where they're doing it, plus people might want to know who's got their backs, a Raven or a Atlas? 1-2 min prep time would probably suffice. And Warrior133, if you're going to post, please make it pertinent to the topic!
Thanks,
A11eycat-Hayden

[Terbius]

30 seconds, tops. any longer than that, and you will find most of your teammates are afk at the start of the match because they wandered off for a cigarette

[Tannhauser Gate]

The match should not start automatically until everyone has check in as ready. If lobby rats or afk people take too long then there should be a button to allow the drop leaders to launch the game.

5 minutes is way too long for most casual matches while league-style matches may need more time.

[Nexus Trimean]

If you are In the Match lobby you should be ready, if you have things you need to do in the mechlab, or go grab a drink, that should be done BEFORE you queue for battle, 30-60 seconds is pleanty of time to tell your lance mates your roll, and learn theres. Once you join the matchmaker it should take less than 120 seconds total, before you are in combat.

League of legends handles this well, you can assemble your team and all sit in group chat for an hour before you queue up to discuss strategy and set up your abilities. Once you hit that find match button your in the queue and generally are in game less than 2 minutes later. I really like this kind of system, You have all the time you need with your prebuilt team. If you have queued up in the matchmaker you have effectively said "I'm ready." The game loby is not the place to be doing major redesigns of your mech and weapons load outs. that kills the players who just want to get into a game and shoot things, and aren't part of a prebuilt team.

[ovan20]

Make it 2 minutes and i vote for it, its good to have some time to see the map and make some rudimentary plan in a random match, like:

"I heavy go here, you scout go there".

5 minutes its just too much, and if the player is on a formed team, he dosent need 5 minutes.

[Ramien]

It would be nice to have some prep time to figure out who the LRM boats are so scouts know who they're scouting for. If mech choices aren't finalized, being able to swap out a mech that doesn't mesh with the rest of the group would be nice too - don't need the standard Raven Variant if there's no heavy missle boats, but that should be limited to variants the player has ready - no trips to the mechlabs for redesign.

After all, unless we're on the planet already, there's going to be some travel time that's handwaved away. Why not use that for planning?

[wwiiogre]

Quick question Rajerial,

Why is dragging something back to world war two a bad thing. It is the last full war this planet experienced, it is the last time tactics and strategy were used by two sides at par or equal in experience, training and equipment. And I hate to tell you, Mechs are just the latest greatest tank and tanks in BT can and do smash Mechs all the time when used right. As for ancient history being relevant, have you ever read the book "the art of war" or any other books dealing with tactics, strategy. Just because general x used y strategy 2000 years ago doesn't mean that you or anyone else shouldn't be able to apply that in a new way in BT or MWO. My point being, be open minded. Those who do not learn from history will blindly repeat it.

Have a good one Rajerial, and I to do not play WOT but know many that do. I hate pay to win and microtransactions forcing you to spend money just to compete. Tribes Ascend seems to have found a balance, I was in that beta before most could get in and played the original Tribes on a team that was in the top 10 for over a year. Point is, if you can't learn from other games and then apply the good ideas to a new game, you are severely limiting yourself and your chances to learn. Good luck with a closed mind. I prefer to keep mine open. I prefer to learn everyday something new and to try to adapt an old lesson to a new problem.

I voted yes and yes, not because I think 5 minutes is the ideal amount of time, but it is a good enough start point. With a ready to drop function you wouldn't need to wait the entire five minutes once every one checked in. PGI can change that as needed based on game play. I am willing to wait and see, but until then this is as good an idea as any for now.

Chris

[Havoc2]

IMO everyone has plenty of time to chat in the lobby. Once the LAUNCH button is clicked (or whatever) it's game on. Game starts when everyone is loaded into the game not when everyone clicks ready.

MAYBE I could see a 30-60s delay once everyone is in their cockpit to allow the commander to set waypoints, assign priorities whatever or for those with slower connections and/or computers to fully load in, but that's it.

Edited by }{avoc, 26 April 2012 - 10:21 AM.

[Aelos03]

wwiiogre, on 26 April 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

Quick question Rajerial,

Why is dragging something back to world war two a bad thing. It is the last full war this planet experienced, it is the last time tactics and strategy were used by two sides at par or equal in experience, training and equipment. And I hate to tell you, Mechs are just the latest greatest tank and tanks in BT can and do smash Mechs all the time when used right. As for ancient history being relevant, have you ever read the book "the art of war" or any other books dealing with tactics, strategy. Just because general x used y strategy 2000 years ago doesn't mean that you or anyone else shouldn't be able to apply that in a new way in BT or MWO. My point being, be open minded. Those who do not learn from history will blindly repeat it.

Have a good one Rajerial, and I to do not play WOT but know many that do. I hate pay to win and microtransactions forcing you to spend money just to compete. Tribes Ascend seems to have found a balance, I was in that beta before most could get in and played the original Tribes on a team that was in the top 10 for over a year. Point is, if you can't learn from other games and then apply the good ideas to a new game, you are severely limiting yourself and your chances to learn. Good luck with a closed mind. I prefer to keep mine open. I prefer to learn everyday something new and to try to adapt an old lesson to a new problem.

I voted yes and yes, not because I think 5 minutes is the ideal amount of time, but it is a good enough start point. With a ready to drop function you wouldn't need to wait the entire five minutes once every one checked in. PGI can change that as needed based on game play. I am willing to wait and see, but until then this is as good an idea as any for now.

Chris

i love what you said, you even convinced me that 5 min is not long with ready button (now i regret voting for less time).

[Fiachdubh]

Launch after 5 minutes or when everyone click ready, whichever comes first.