258 replies to this topic

[ryback]

LMAO AC/2 OP that's a good one i tred them and took them back off lmao

[Fetladral]

AC2's are annoying and to lights a threat (if they arn't utilizing speed) but the knock around isn't that bad. I think one of the Cataphract's can carry 4 but not sure.

[Blackfire1]

Scytale, on 14 November 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

My experience in running a Hunchback with dual AC/2 is that while I can track a moving target and hit it fairly reliably at long range, I pretty much have to stand still to do it. I can engage moving targets at short range while I'm also moving, but I can't spam the shots continually. This, on top of the very low AC/2 damage, makes the weapon balanced. The psychological effect of getting hit by these things continually shouldn't be underestimated, though.

Having tried it for some time, however, I've decided it's not my style; it takes a certain demeanour to use these things =P

It takes practice and mental application of physics. Think Tribes: Ascend. I have lights that look at me weird all the time when I'm circle strafing and hitting them with AC2's at close range.

You can see their tactics change drastically when it happens.

[Kommisar]

I wouldn't be so quick to say that one can not keep AC/2 rounds on target over time. There are some good shots that can use the AC/2 like a chainsaw to saw off parts in quick order. And, yes, while the camera shake does not affect the crosshairs, it does make it difficult to place accurate return fire. Especially if the AC/2 is also kicking up a good amount of smoke over the cockpit.

The key is accurate return fire. Being able to land your shots into the targets vital areas. I'm a great shot and I have good fire discipline; but an AC/2 rocking my Atlas back and forth does make it more difficult for me to single out an area for my fire. And if I get a target pinned under my AC/2's, I find his return fire is not nearly as accurate.

The AC/2 is not overpowered. But I find the impulse of the round to be silly. It should not be rocking targets that much. And certainly not the same per round as an AC/20! Reduce this, and you will see the number of AC/2s on the field drop substantially.

[Gunny McDuck]

An AC/2 can be a harassment/suppression weapon when used as range or up close. Multiple weapons can produce a fairly high DPS.

It isn't the easiest thing in the world to continue to drop rounds on a moving target, but it is certainly possible with practice and skill.

On our private boards we have a couple of discussion threads about what happens when several mechs on our team all focus fire their 2-3 AC/2 mechs at the same target.

The focused DPS is quite impressive.


Ballistic weapons are supposed to be powerful.
They are offset by limitations on ammo, significant heat generation, are somewhat weak from a crit/HP perspective, and by extension, lend themselves to being disabled.

Personally, I'm a huge fan of UAC/5 and AC/20.
I have a couple dual/3x AC/2 builds, I just don't run them as much.

Having said that, taking my harassing Dragon out for a spin is always good fun as part of our organized group where I would naturally fall into a support role with that mech.


There are counters to these weapons and their tactics, you just need to figure out what they are.
Crying for a nerf isn't the solution though.....

Edited by Gunny McDuck, 15 November 2012 - 10:49 AM.

[TruePoindexter]

My experience has been AC2's are great suppression weapons. The shake effect makes people panic and duck their heads. Real damage though? It's not that great. in terms of raw DPS it has the potential to be powerful but between heat and ammo issues combined with the difficulty in landing consistent hits it just doesn't work out that way.

[Bagheera]

Dakkath, on 15 November 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

My only feedback with this:

The cockpit shake should be determined by the location of the hit, and how large the caliber is.

An AC/2 rocking an Atlas so that they are "perma-stunned" is kind of dumb. Now dual AC/20's I can understand.

I can support that. There should be some knock with all the ballistics, but it only makes sense that the force should be relative to round - if only in the interest of giving the game more variety.

MustrumRidcully, on 15 November 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

But just because there is more than just one factor to consider doesn't mean that the single factor, like DPS, is irrelevant.

Irrelevant is too strong of a word, though given my condescending comments about MMOs, I can see where that may have been unintentionally implied. On the other hand, I don't think it's nearly so useful in the context of MW:O as to warrant using it as a sole basis to compare two weapons in relative power. Conversations like this often leave out Dmg/Ammo or intangible/non-numeric attributes of weapons. IMO more relevant to MW:O than straight DPS. Though one way to look at lasers is that their DMG/Ammo value is some function of DPS and match time, which a better mathematician than I could express as an equation.

[Voyager I]

TruePoindexter, on 15 November 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

My experience has been AC2's are great suppression weapons. The shake effect makes people panic and duck their heads. Real damage though? It's not that great. in terms of raw DPS it has the potential to be powerful but between heat and ammo issues combined with the difficulty in landing consistent hits it just doesn't work out that way.

This more or less sums it up. They're good at ******* off Gaussapults and Assaults, but they're still not that great for actually killing things and they suck against anything that moves too quickly for you to keep a continual stream on them.

[Adeptis]

WarZ, on 14 November 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

Sadly the ease with which the multiple AC builds tear apart ANYTHING is just depressing. They core and crit with ridiculous ease. Unless you are very fast you are meat. Only build right now where you know you have to leave or die no matter your armament.

The cockpit shake BS from a small AC2 is what makes it the most stupid.

Quit standing still. AC/2s are one of the most balanced weapons in the game. They have a very fair heat/damage/tonnage ratio, and they're hard to use against moving targets. Don't whine.

[JDHeffa]

AC/2 seems very well balanced to me. I have been running a Dragon with 2x AC/2, 2x SRM4, and 3x Medium Lasers and I enjoy playing with the AC/2 but it's by no means the only weapon in contention.

I have my reasons for liking the weapon but I will mention the drawbacks.

• Heat - the AC/2 generates a surprising amount.
  
• Short Cooldown - You need to be on target every second or you are losing DPS, this is not an AC/20 where you can make a drastic movement adjustment while your weapon is on cooldown.
  
• Damage Spread - Unless your opponent is stationary (sometimes they are :-) ) it's hard to do serious damage with the AC.
  
• Ammo - You need at least 2/3 ton of ammo per AC/2 or it loses all utility to supress people as you don't have the ammo to spare.

The AC/2 IMO is simply an alright weapon with some upside and some drawbacks. Really the only advice I and many others can give is NEVER go stationary.

[JDHeffa]

Gunny McDuck, on 15 November 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

An AC/2 can be a harassment/suppression weapon when used as range or up close. Multiple weapons can produce a fairly high DPS. It isn't the easiest thing in the world to continue to drop rounds on a moving target, but it is certainly possible with practice and skill.

Keeping your guns on target is definitly an issue. I don't think I would like torso mounted AC/2s nearly as much as arm mounted ones.

[BlackSquirrel]

Mr 144, on 14 November 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

Without resorting to the L2P crowd, your targeting reticule does not move during all that shaking. It's the 'perception' of imminent danger that you're seeing. Learn to control your panick, act accordingly to remove yourself from there direct line of fire, flank them, and enjoy success. Get use to it now, while they're not doing scary damage, because the JaggerMech will double-up the damage potential you're presently seeing.



Every Mech 'head' has 18 armor, and 15 internal...making a headshot take 33 damage. Divisible by the 2dmg an AC/2 round produces, this would mean 17 consecutive shots (barring criticals). To be fair, two AC/2's chain fired, would take just over 4 seconds (~3secs for 3x, and 2secs for the quad Jagger). Headshotting is not the forte' of the AC/2 builds...psychological warfare is....and it obviously works.

This is why a dual gauss (30dmg) cannot one-shot you without a crit, but a 1x gauss + 2x PPC (35dmg) can.

Mr 144

I learned something new today.

[darknothing]

is this a joke? OP? i had atlases telling me they tickle.

[theta123]

One of my jagermechs will have 4X AC/2's
Poor gausscats.....
2 AC's in weapon group 1
2 AC2's in weapon group 2
Chainfire them
...

SUCCES!

[Hikaru Shizuka]

I've heard directly from a dev that AC/2s will become MC only items, and that their rate of fire will be increased to match the machine gun. Also their damage will be the same as the AC/20. Also they'll raise your heat.

[Gunny McDuck]

Hikaru Shizuka, on 15 November 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

I've heard directly from a dev that AC/2s will become MC only items, and that their rate of fire will be increased to match the machine gun. Also their damage will be the same as the AC/20. Also they'll raise your heat.

Troll much?

MC only, for a gun?

So after all the stuff that has gone on in these forums, negatively comparing MWO to WOT.....

Do you really expect anyone to honestly believe you when you say you "heard it from a dev" that PGI was going to create a "golden gun" that would fully enshrine the P2W philosophy?

I call shenanigans......

Edited by Gunny McDuck, 15 November 2012 - 02:14 PM.

[DamnCatte]

I run just about any build I feel like, and I've never once been 'ripped apart' by an AC/2 build. Even in an Atlas, Just close the distance and make them hurt; AC/2 builds are meant as harassment, not destruction. In anything heavier than a Jenner, they are more of an irritation than a threat. The fact you're being demolished by AC/2s just shows that you probably are being hit by something bigger, they are able to continually, and successfully hit your cockpit (which I highly doubt), or you are just a bad pilot and should work on that.

Why dont you run a dual AC/2 build for a while and see just how 'powerful' it is?

[TruePoindexter]

Here's a fun build someone should try. I'll call it "Need mo dakka"

Spoiler

Chassis Name: Hunchback
Model Name: HBK-4G
Variant Name: HBK-4G Need mo Dakka

Engine: 200 XL Engine
Internal Type: Endo Steel
Armor Type: Std Armor
Heat Sinks: 10 (8) Double Heat Sinks

Tonnage: 50.00
Speed: 64.8 kph
Armor Total: 240
Alpha Strike Damage: 23.00
Alpha Strike Heat: 7.00
Firepower: 9.35 dps
Heat Efficiency: 39.07%
Effective Range of Loadout: 660m

Head: 18/18
Right Torso: 40/48
Right Rear Torso: 8/48
Center Torso: 54/64
Center Rear Torso: 10/64
Left Torso: 40/48
Left Rear Torso: 8/48
Right Arm: 0/32
Left Arm: 0/32
Right Leg: 31/48
Left Leg: 31/48

Right Arm:
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel

Left Arm:
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel

Right Torso:
Gauss Rifle
AC2
AC2 Ammo

Left Torso:
Double Heat Sink
Double Heat Sink
AMS
AMS Ammo
AC2 Ammo

Center Torso:
Gauss Ammo
Gauss Ammo

Head:
Medium Pulse Laser

Right Leg:

Left Leg:
Gauss Ammo
Gauss Ammo

For the TL/DR crowd it's a Hunchback 4G with Gauss, AC2, and MPL.

[Gunny McDuck]

I like it, I may need to try that one.

It'll look pretty funny running around once the arms get torn off.

[Omigir]

LOL The Original Post to this thread is LAUGHABLE.