24 replies to this topic

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Whereas the Cataphract and the Caesar are very nearly the same mech anyway,

and whereas the Caesar in itself lacks variants sufficient to earn it a place in MWO,

and whereas the Caesar's stock loadout is sufficiently different from the Cataphract variants currently announced,

and whereas the Caesar is super nifty, and with an FD rework it would be made of pure win,

and whereas the in-game time frame would work out beautifully, as the Caesar was first available in 3049,

be it resolved that PGI should include the Caesar in MWO as a variant of the Cataphract;

be it also resolved that it might be a decent candidate for Hero Mech status, since it would have a different model from the standard Cataphract, though its hardpoints and hitboxes would be essentially identical to the 1X,

and be it also resolved that it would serve as a precedent for further mechs-as-variants, such as the Grand Dragon as a variant of the Dragon or the Katana as a variant of the Crocket.

Who is with me on this?

[Vlad Ward]

I second the motion, even though I'm completely unfamiliar with the mech in question.

[leeko]

Yeah and let's make the Catapult a variant of the Stalker...

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Here is the Sarna page for the Cataphract:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Cataphract

And here is the Sarna page for the Caesar (it's also linked at the bottom of the Cataphract page):

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Caesar

Edit:

leeko, the Caesar is 70 tons and the Cataphract is 70 tons. They are related Mechs that are very nearly identical.

The Catapult is 65 tons, and the Stalker is 85 tons. They share only a passing resemblance, and are pretty much entirely unrelated.

You, sir, fail.

Edited by Levi Porphyrogenitus, 14 November 2012 - 09:13 PM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

The biggest difference between the two is that the Cataphract has a funny name and the Caesar looks like an ***** carrying a ray gun. A SPHESS RAY GUN, WoOoooOOooOoo.


No seriously, the Caesar has a good weapon layout, but looks like ****.


Edit: So yeah, I'm essentially agreeing with the OP, include the variant loadouts, but exclude the fugly design.

Edited by mwhighlander, 14 November 2012 - 09:37 PM.

[p00k]

umm, you basically can
the 3D and 1X are very close to the caesar, to where you can pretty much build a caesar out of those cataphract variants which hardpoint is where might be a bit different, but it's close

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

p00k, on 14 November 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

umm, you basically can
the 3D and 1X are very close to the caesar, to where you can pretty much build a caesar out of those cataphract variants which hardpoint is where might be a bit different, but it's close

And that is the source of my further suggestion that they might make it a Hero-style mech. It would avoid cries of Pay to Win since the hardpoints could be duplicated on other Cataphract variants (1x especially), while being a somewhat different model (that has the same hitboxes, thereby still avoiding p2win).

[IIIuminaughty]

naw son lets keep it like it is

[Vermaxx]

It needs a really BIITCHIN ROMAN PAINTJORB if I'm going to accept the Caeeesaaar as my 30% P2W cashcow.

[Bishop Steiner]

TOGA!
TOGA!
TOGA!

[vifoxe]

either way, I would like to see the caesar make it into the game

[Strum Wealh]

StrataDragoon, on 15 November 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

naw son lets keep it like it is

Indeed - the differences between the CES-3R and the CTF-1X, as far as MWO's MechLab would be concerned, are the presence of a Hand Actuator on the Right Arm and aesthetics.
All of the other aspects could be duplicated via customization.

Just as with the Mauler, Devastator, Axman, and others, the Caesar is simply too new in-universe to have the appropriate number of variants for the 'Mech XP system (as the third mass-production variant comes into being in 3067).
It'll just have to wait, like so many others...

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 15 November 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

And that is the source of my further suggestion that they might make it a Hero-style mech. It would avoid cries of Pay to Win since the hardpoints could be duplicated on other Cataphract variants (1x especially), while being a somewhat different model (that has the same hitboxes, thereby still avoiding p2win).

That isn't how the Hero 'Mech system works.

Hero 'Mechs are one-off custom variants, based on mass-production chassis, used by "hero characters".
Hero 'Mech variants of the Cataphract would need to still be Cataphracts, rather than an entirely different chassis.
As an example, the Hero 'Mechs of the Cataphract would be the "CTF-2X (George)" (created in 3039), the "CTF-3X (Sara)" (created in 3062), and the "CTF-5MOC (Naomi)" (created in 3067).

Trying to mix 'Mech chassis in such a way that it might affect the 'Mech XP system, like using Caesars for Cataphract variants or vice versa, that will like result in little more than a bad precedent and should be avoided.

[Tuhalu]

Quote

Originally based upon a reverse-engineered Cataphract, the Caesar was designed by Johnston Industries to hide the development of the Axman.

Aside from that reference in the origin, the mechs really don't share that much in common. The mechs are shaped distinctly differently. They would basically have to create an entirely new model just to call it a variant.

The Grand Dragon really is just an upgrade variant of the Dragon, as is the Katana an upgrade variant of the Crockett. With the 30 ton spider being upgraded to the 35 ton Venom (minor artistic changes required) and the 80 ton Charger being upgraded to the Hatamoto-Chi (again, minor artistic changes required) the Kuritans have a total of 4 upgraded and renamed mechs in the 3050 era. And they are pretty much the only House that did that.

[RAM]

We are with you!


RAM
ELH

[Onyx Rain]

The game assets would be similar, so what they could do pretty easily I bet...

is make the caesar a one off premium mech by just tweaking the hardpoints and game assets a bit. If they did that they should allow you to master the single variant.

Heck they could make it come fully upgraded to master level, as part of the MC justification....Just saves you time, not really P2W since it isn't doing anything another mech isn't capable of.

I doubt they will fudge canon so much to call it a cataphract variant...just not likely.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

If you absolutely insist on a "Hero" Mech being a version driven by a specific person, Avanti's Caesar would be the easy choice. It was stock until he added Clan tech, so they could release it either soonish stock, or once they have the Clan invasion well under way with the Clan tech on it.

Still, I think it'd work just fine as a "Premium" Hero-lite Mech. The unique model would make up for the lack of a special skin.

[Rave]

I would love to see Marcus GioAvanti's (from the merc company Avanti's Angels) Caesar as a Hero mech.

[Targetloc]

I like this idea.

[Terick]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 15 November 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

And that is the source of my further suggestion that they might make it a Hero-style mech. It would avoid cries of Pay to Win since the hardpoints could be duplicated on other Cataphract variants (1x especially), while being a somewhat different model (that has the same hitboxes, thereby still avoiding p2win).

I really dislike this. The last Hero mech they introduced they removed the mech that could get to roughly the same stats. The CN9-AH is not available anymore... the Yen was a modified CN9-AH. Now we can't get it since it is so close to the Yen.

The CN9-AH was in closed beta.

I really dislike that they might remove one or more of the CTF variants since they can be a Ceaser with just a different name/look.

Rave, on 15 November 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

I would love to see Marcus GioAvanti's (from the merc company Avanti's Angels) Caesar as a Hero mech.

Would be some years off for his mech to show up. Thinking about two years out since we are just entering the time for the clan invasion now.

[Joe Mallad]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 14 November 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

Whereas the Cataphract and the Caesar are very nearly the same mech anyway,

and whereas the Caesar in itself lacks variants sufficient to earn it a place in MWO,

and whereas the Caesar's stock loadout is sufficiently different from the Cataphract variants currently announced,

and whereas the Caesar is super nifty, and with an FD rework it would be made of pure win,

and whereas the in-game time frame would work out beautifully, as the Caesar was first available in 3049,

be it resolved that PGI should include the Caesar in MWO as a variant of the Cataphract;

be it also resolved that it might be a decent candidate for Hero Mech status, since it would have a different model from the standard Cataphract, though its hardpoints and hitboxes would be essentially identical to the 1X,

and be it also resolved that it would serve as a precedent for further mechs-as-variants, such as the Grand Dragon as a variant of the Dragon or the Katana as a variant of the Crocket.

Who is with me on this?

while i like your idea... I do have to point out that the Caesar does have 4 variants that they could use for it IF they wanted to add it as a new mech and they could just switch up its hard points. We have seen it already in beta where some of the mech we have now have had hard points changed and or taken away to make them a bit more different or unique. As for a hero mech... they could just make a hero mech for the Cataphract if they wanted a hero mech that bad for it.