57 replies to this topic

[BanditRaptor]

I think that it's ridiculous that some people are so opposed to change - a lot of the old designs were horrible, the raven included, and what wasn't horrible was usually a ripoff of something from an anime. These new designs are what Mechwarrior should have been like all along, and I feel like the people who want to spurn the game because of the redesigns are similar to the people in the "Sonic shouldn't have green eyes" crowd.

[Claw55]

Vexgrave Lars, on 26 April 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

I had a revelation a little bit ago and its something we've all touched on maybe realizing it or not. This is not "our Mechwarrior" that we know and love. Dodges the torches and pitchforks.

This is the Mechwarrior vision we all dreamed of for so long as delivered through the eyes of the developers and artist of PGI, and we are invited to play it. The Devs and artist are in this to make a profit, no questions asked there, but they are doing such amazing things for us, the players, the fans, the geeks and just letting us in. Its like getting invited to a friends house to play a round of table top, his house.. his house rules.

The Oz like wizards roam here on the boards almost daily answering question, working the code, accepting feedback. When we quip about little things, what is and should be canon, the shape of a mechs nose, the length of a barrel, we are missing the bigger picture. Which is simply that this is history in the making, we are writing ourselves into the canon material and it is by the grace of the sweat and hours of those behind the scenes that we will be able to do so.

Before you blast the hell out of me, consider. Short of Living Legends, which is a great simulator, however nothing really lasting or pervasive there, would you be willing to sacrifice another 10 years of No Mechwarrior because of the shape of a nose cone, or other base concern?

This is the great internet update TRO of 2012, and like all the TRO's and rules updates before it there will be changes and clarifications, not just designs or concepts, but right down to the scaffolding of the game. The dev's have, and hopefully we can too, embraced the changes to let our dream, giant armed robot combat in a semi-cohesive fictional universe, live within the vision and diligent capabilities of our adventurous benefactors. It is to do disservice to them for this undertaking they're sharing their vision with us, and so often our rancid commentary which ventures the bleakest intent of dissent absent advisement.

Historically, with those inventions presented by the greatest of creators, you will find that your appreciation warms them and drives them, your suggestions are noted and referenced with reason and rational attention, and your complaints, unless reasonably presented in concert with prevailing facts pass directly to the circular bin. I can't imagine getting the job done any other way. Development and artistry simply cannot exist in a democracy, to many opinions and directions simple as that.

This is Mechwarrior Online circa 2012, and what the PGI team has in store for us will be the latest material, the new canon, they have the license they make the law, I'm sure with concessions to certain parent materials. I for one will take it as it comes and not pass judgement until later, once we have a chance to see the whole of it, not just the small keyhole peeking we've had so far. The puzzle pieces so far all seem to fit and makes sense, that shall have to suffice.

Humbly, one with a love of the game and the culture, my fellow forum members and friends ---fire resistant suit in place.. go for it!

Seyla!

[Monky]

I agree with the general sentiment, but Technoviking makes a good point; All this business about the shape of the raven's nose is important for the very reason you mention - this is the reboot.

This is it.

This is what mechwarrior will be for the new decade.

And we're going to be the ones who finance it. The ones who effectively commission this masterpiece of metal behemoths, the fans. The guys who buy the product, pay the bills. I don't think anyone is upset enough at a graphical representation on a CONCEPT piece of art to say 'whatever, failed franchise, blah blah blah'. In fact, the people speaking up have been largely positive about this whole deal, and offered consistent, real criticism rather than throwing hissy fits and denouncing the game as is typical in communities i've seen in the past.

I think there's a misinterpretation of criticism for dislike and disagreement for discontent. Conflict is the nature of the world - nothing gets done unless you say 'things are not alright as they are - I am going to try and change it.' so do not fear conflict between people, but fear a loss of civility and reasonable attitude. That is something we don't want to see go.

Edited by monky, 26 April 2012 - 04:55 PM.

[metalwolf2900]

Vexgrave Lars, on 26 April 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

I had a revelation a little bit ago and its something we've all touched on maybe realizing it or not. This is not "our Mechwarrior" that we know and love. Dodges the torches and pitchforks.

This is the Mechwarrior vision we all dreamed of for so long as delivered through the eyes of the developers and artist of PGI, and we are invited to play it. The Devs and artist are in this to make a profit, no questions asked there, but they are doing such amazing things for us, the players, the fans, the geeks and just letting us in. Its like getting invited to a friends house to play a round of table top, his house.. his house rules.

The Oz like wizards roam here on the boards almost daily answering question, working the code, accepting feedback. When we quip about little things, what is and should be canon, the shape of a mechs nose, the length of a barrel, we are missing the bigger picture. Which is simply that this is history in the making, we are writing ourselves into the canon material and it is by the grace of the sweat and hours of those behind the scenes that we will be able to do so.

Before you blast the hell out of me, consider. Short of Living Legends, which is a great simulator, however nothing really lasting or pervasive there, would you be willing to sacrifice another 10 years of No Mechwarrior because of the shape of a nose cone, or other base concern?

This is the great internet update TRO of 2012, and like all the TRO's and rules updates before it there will be changes and clarifications, not just designs or concepts, but right down to the scaffolding of the game. The dev's have, and hopefully we can too, embraced the changes to let our dream, giant armed robot combat in a semi-cohesive fictional universe, live within the vision and diligent capabilities of our adventurous benefactors. It is to do disservice to them for this undertaking they're sharing their vision with us, and so often our rancid commentary which ventures the bleakest intent of dissent absent advisement.

Historically, with those inventions presented by the greatest of creators, you will find that your appreciation warms them and drives them, your suggestions are noted and referenced with reason and rational attention, and your complaints, unless reasonably presented in concert with prevailing facts pass directly to the circular bin. I can't imagine getting the job done any other way. Development and artistry simply cannot exist in a democracy, to many opinions and directions simple as that.

This is Mechwarrior Online circa 2012, and what the PGI team has in store for us will be the latest material, the new canon, they have the license they make the law, I'm sure with concessions to certain parent materials. I for one will take it as it comes and not pass judgement until later, once we have a chance to see the whole of it, not just the small keyhole peeking we've had so far. The puzzle pieces so far all seem to fit and makes sense, that shall have to suffice.

Humbly, one with a love of the game and the culture, my fellow forum members and friends ---fire resistant suit in place.. go for it!

i whole heartedly agree with you sir, right now is history in the making for our community

[Th3Q]

Well said Lars! I for for one have not had the oportunity to play some of the other mech warrior games(Iknow Iknow a sheltered Life LOL) but anyhoo I have played MW4Mercs a little!! And I am well PLEASED to see the way this game is going and I'm glad I"m going to get the chance to eventualy play the table top game I love on a pc

[wwiiogre]

Well said sir,

Salute

Chris

[DocBach]

I for one, really like the new art direction. As a kid growing up in middle school I loved BattleTech so much I totally overlooked how terrible post-3050 artwork was - I didn't realize designs like the Cossack and War Dog and Wraith and Blood Kite and so many other terribly drawn 'Mechs wouldn't be able to support themselves on their own legs because I was too blinded by my fanaticism to BattleTech. I'm glad that the 'Mechs are being redesigned with a real-world aesthetic. Things like the Dragon's stance getting widened out a bit to support its weight is a welcome change. I admit I wasn't use to it at first, but its definitely grown on me. My only complaint is some of it looks too much like Japanese Mecha and it could be dumbed down a bit, as most military hardware is, but thats a minor gripe compared to the quality of art we're now getting.

[BanditRaptor]

monky, on 26 April 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

I agree with the general sentiment, but Technoviking makes a good point; All this business about the shape of the raven's nose is important for the very reason you mention - this is the reboot.

WHAT business?

Did you see the poll in the thread about the raven's nose? It's 30 vs 200, with the 200 in favor of the redesign.

People need to stop acting like the majority of fans hate the redesign.

[Grendel408]

Vexgrave Lars... well said dude. I've mentioned it in other posts for those nay-sayers and zealots (not fanatics like me... but zealots who refuse change) but change can be good, and the route the Devs are taking is awesome

Some folks don't like change... some enjoy it... I personally like to shake things up here and there and this is what BattleTech/MechWarrior is about. I consider BT/MW a loose interpretation of the world we live in through the ages... humanity will always want: power, control, and greed... because someone always has something better you want so you want to take it by whatever means possible.

We should all wait and see how things turn out with MWO before anyone continues to grate the eyes and ears of the Devs and those fans actually waiting patiently for the release. Cause guess what... this isn't the only 'Mech game coming out this year... there's more, so if this doesn't float your fancy... go elsewhere and don't bother us with trolling in the forums about "I don't like this, or I hate that... or the nose doesn't look right" etc. Get over it folks... I for one think this change is positive and heading the right direction.

I'm ranting now... but think of it this way... what technology was there available in the 80's-90's to do the MechWarrior series? Not much... 20+ years later and we have the chance to see what the Devs really wanted from the get-go

my two cents, and then some

[Monky]

BeakieHelmet, on 26 April 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

WHAT business?

Did you see the poll in the thread about the raven's nose? It's 30 vs 200, with the 200 in favor of the redesign.

People need to stop acting like the majority of fans hate the redesign.

The poll is about the raven redesign in particular, not the nose. Personally, I think the design overall is excellent. I voted no because the nose is a really easy fix with a rather dramatic effect. Once again - there is a misinterpretation here of disagreement for discontent.

Edited by monky, 26 April 2012 - 06:10 PM.

[Chatanith Raeven]

Well said Brother! Thanks Devs, my time shall continued to be consumed by you efforts!

[Dakkaface]

Vexgrave Lars, I commend you. This is a good thread.

[BanditRaptor]

monky, on 26 April 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

The poll is about the raven redesign in particular, not the nose. Personally, I think the design overall is excellent. I voted no because the nose is a really easy fix with a rather dramatic effect. Once again - there is a misinterpretation here of disagreement for discontent.

Uh, no, the nose is part of the redesign and definitely the most striking element about it. People voted yes because they're fine with it, if they hated the nose - the key design element of the mech - I don't think they would vote "Yes."

The redesign finally FIXED the raven to look like, you know, a raven and not a falcon or something.

[Monky]

You are entitled to think what you want, but the poll is about the raven redesign in general. The votes are about the design in general. It says it right on the tin.

I agree that it actually does look like a raven - the eye would be where the cockpit is, the jaw line and 'cheek fluff' where the down would be are proportioned well and don't look silly, but I disagree when it gets to the nose - that is my personal view, and I am going to express that, like it or not. I even made this simple mockup to illustrate just how small of an area we're talking about here, and how dramatic of a change is visible ;

http://fakemonky.dev...t.com/#/d4xop8n

Without that, it just looks like a greyhound or a fox. It doesn't make me unhappy, I am fine with it, I am probably not even going to pilot a Raven, but I call it like it is, and this is simply what it is.

Edited by monky, 26 April 2012 - 06:48 PM.

[Orzorn]

See, this isn't the Mechwarrior we want. It is much more. Its the Mechwarrior we never even knew we could have.

Edited by Orzorn, 26 April 2012 - 06:49 PM.

[3Xtr3m3]

I applaud anyone willing to take a stand and recognize the dedication and vision of the Dev. team in making our fantasy world a little more visible, a little more real to us, the fans.

And if you run your HOTAS(?) setup as well as you run your keyboard......





I am in a LOT of trouble. rofl.

[Eclyptrakles]

This should be a game I want to play the next 10 years

Edited by PaxPurgatory, 26 April 2012 - 07:29 PM.

[Lightfoot]

karish, on 26 April 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

Yes, people forget this started as a "Reboot" and they said this isnt your fathers Mechwarrior any more and i for one

Like it

ahem, they said, "This is not your daddy's MechWarrior", in reference to MechAssault, to distance the product from the traditional MechWarrior game with Mech Lab, First Person Cockpit view, etc. Make MechAssault seem to be an all action game. I don't think MechAssault had more action than MechWarrior, just less features. They had this misconception (imho) that MechWarrior's long history was not appreciated by current gamers, so the slogan, "This ain't your Daddy's MechWarrior", was advanced to attract younger players. I just don't think this bias actually existed. I think a great MechWarrior game will attract many players, new and old, and be a very successful and enduring game.

Edited by Lightfoot, 26 April 2012 - 07:41 PM.

[DaZur]

LOL!

I read the title and immediately I started reading / singing in David Byrne's voice...

"This in not my Battlemech.. This is not my Mechwarrior that I knew and loved...
How did I get here?!"...

Suddenly the whole visage of a Battlemech doing the chopping of the forearm gesture takes on a whole new meaning.

Edited by DaZur, 27 April 2012 - 04:43 AM.

[Hayashi]

Punisher_1, on 26 April 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

I think someone is trying really hard to be part of the closed beta

This, and...

Vexgrave Lars, on 26 April 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

Short of Living Legends, which is a great simulator, however nothing really lasting or pervasive there, would you be willing to sacrifice another 10 years of No Mechwarrior because of the shape of a nose cone, or other base concern?

camouflage an anti-anti-Raven stance.

Though if we had anything but good feelings about where MWO is going I doubt we'd be here... EVEN BEFORE THE CLOSED BETA STARTS.

Lol.