2926 replies to this topic

[Manstein]

Battletech has ALWAYS been a 3rd Person Game...you sit at a board game and watch your mech smash your oponent into the ground, then walk over to him and kick him while is laid out flat. Thats as 3rd person and you get, and it be AWESOME to get that feel and look into the game. All these kiddies and their FPS games can go play something else if they want. I want Battletech to be and feel like it was in the hay-days of it all. But if not, thats ok too...but man, why have cool mechs and camo patterns when you dont ever get to see them. And having that external look around will compensate for the 2D monitor we play on in a major way. Cheers...run hot!

[zer0imh]

Manstein, on 16 November 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

Battletech has ALWAYS been a 3rd Person Game...you sit at a board game and watch your mech smash your oponent into the ground, then walk over to him and kick him while is laid out flat. Thats as 3rd person and you get, and it be AWESOME to get that feel and look into the game. All these kiddies and their FPS games can go play something else if they want. I want Battletech to be and feel like it was in the hay-days of it all. But if not, thats ok too...but man, why have cool mechs and camo patterns when you dont ever get to see them. And having that external look around will compensate for the 2D monitor we play on in a major way. Cheers...run hot!

you are talking about MECHCOMMANDER 1 and 2.

those where great (battletech) games by the way


as for mechwarrior...

mechwarrior is mechwarrior (a mech sim/role playing first person game).


PGI can make MECHCOMMANDER 3 if they want.... after they finish this game properly first.




in other news... star citizen is becoming a great "first person" space combat sim



from the developers of wingcommander/privateer/freespace/freelancer

Edited by zer0imh, 16 November 2012 - 05:49 PM.

[Tremor]

No, no, no, no, please God no!

Please don't do this to this game. PLEASE take it back.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

I am also very very fond of the idea that more attention needs to be givin to the cockpit. I do want to see my 'mech literally drop into the match from the ship. I do want to see my pilot put the safety straps on 'well from a 1rst person view lol'... hit all the switches a little computer A.I. flashes on ' all systems nominal '. I want to see my pilot move the toggles to go forward/backward, twist the torso and aim the 'mechs arms. someone said they wanted to see the pilot thrashing forward and wires coming down when your 'mech falls over... Yep, that'd be pretty schweet... like bein in a plane crash.. better not make the same mistake in the future...

that kind of stuff would complicate the visual screen a little more, but I still think it would be cool as hell.

Keep in mind all those visuals would be like the 1rst person view it is now, through the pilots eyes.

[Tugger Nuts]

If, and only if, it is some sort of camera drone that can be destroyed by enemy weapons will I allow it. Any other incarnation of 3rd person and I will ask for a refund on my founders pack.

Who are these vast droves of people demanding 3rd person? I'm in MWO for life if it remains untainted by this kind of idiocy. If it is a matter of making money for PGI I understand, but they have made how much already? There are other ways to squeeze a buck from players. Sell packages similar to the founders (albeit not as good) pay $40 get X mech and X MC and X c-bills.

[Billygoat]

Garth Erlam, on 16 November 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

Just to make sure everyone, well, actually read that and listened to what Russ said, we don't plan to add 3rd person. We're looking at what it would require of us if we did.

We did listen to what Russ said. And for myself, I also listened to how he said it. Did you?

Because right now it sure seems a bit like the left hand doesn't really know what the right hand at PGI is doing. Maybe 3rd person view would help?

[codynyc]

smoke and mirrors.

Deep down i feel they want to add 3rd person to appeal to the mech assault people. Maybe they didnt get the numbers that they were expecting in open beta ? And using the "We need third person " to save the revenue stream... So many viable options to 3rd person has been suggested and they still seem adamant on put it in.

[Blaank]

It is impossible to balance 3rd person with 1st person. 3rd person will have an advantage over 1st person. The only way to not give an advantage to 3rd person is to shift the viewer so they are looking out from the mech. Then put up black areas to limit the view to what 1st person gets. Only then will it be fair and not an advantage over 1st person view.


P.S.
Hells no.

[Asmosis]

LumberJack, on 16 November 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

To hell with 3rd-person view. When do we get a rear view and rear-mounted guns?

With a proper 3rd person view you'll be abe to see that jenner or 6srm6 cat sneaking up behind you to core you. no need for rear view cameras.

Theres 2 scenarios i can think of for 3rd person. First one your all in the same match, giving a big advantage to those using 3rd person over 1st person, i doubt they'll do that.

The second scenario is 1st person view players are seperated from 3rd person view players. This might seem fine from a gameplay standpoint, but from a player distribution standpoint your going to run into problems with population at some point as that will at the very least split the online players into 4 categories (after phase 2) being pug/team + 1st/3rd person.

Split the population too many times and you either start playing the same people all the time, or some categories suffer from a lack of players and you can't get matches.

Edited by Asmosis, 16 November 2012 - 05:56 PM.

[zer0imh]

codynyc, on 16 November 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

smoke and mirrors.

Deep down i feel they want to add 3rd person to appeal to the mech assault people. Maybe they didnt get the numbers that they were expecting in open beta ? And using the "We need third person " to save the revenue stream... So many viable options to 3rd person has been suggested and they still seem adamant on put it in.

#alexander kerensky

"it's time for exodus people! warm up the jump drives. lets leave this god forsaken innersphere behind..."

[SRRaleigh]

Sorry Garth, but I have to call horse-crap on ya!

Paul's comments have been posted to many times for me to bother reposting them again, and to add to that, this companies record so far on balanced well thought out "fixes" and "tweeks" has left alot to be desired by this MechWarrior. I do not presume to speak for all pilots, but I for one, will not play in a match where 3rd person is allowed, or where I think 3rd person is being used.

I quit playing EQ way back in the day due to stupidity "introduced" into the game, through a dumbing down of the playing mechanics. I quit playing SWG, WOW, and SWTOR for the same reason. I will not suffer a game that is reduced to drivel to appease the lowest common denominator in a potential player base.

Perhaps a REAL pilot training ground, or area with a tutorial would better serve those having trouble piloting a Mech. Instead we are told, or was that a true slip and we were not intended to know about this, that a known and flawed system of play is to be introduced into MWO.

I am aware that there may be a way to turn 3rd person view off, however this does not avoid the advantage to other players that 3rd person view would bring.

The choice, when all is said and done is the companies, and since this is your game you are entitled to do as you wish with it. I will not however be a party to a system, a game system at that, that is nothing more than pap. This is a game to be played on the PC, not a console, and I do not need, nor do I want to be coddled while I play it.

[DraigUK]

Garth Erlam, on 16 November 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

Just to make sure everyone, well, actually read that and listened to what Russ said, we don't plan to add 3rd person. We're looking at what it would require of us if we did.

The best announcement Russ can make is:-

"Hey, we looked into it, and we realized it was a dumb idea, sorry for going back on our promise and causing all this fuss. We are now back focused on what we should have been doing, and that is putting in new mechs, maps and game modes, while balancing weapons and fixing bugs, in particular the netcode issue. Happy gaming everybody!"

C'mon Garth, Russ and Paul....get back on track where you belong. Look after us and stay true to the franchise first and foremost and the rest will look after itself.

Edited by DraigUK, 16 November 2012 - 05:59 PM.

[FragInc]

Completely lost to the OP's explanation.

As for 3rd person.. NO! This is one of the things that I hate in "World of Tanks" and AFAIC, it simply cheapens the whole of the gameplay. There is no such thing as 3rd-person IRL so why people desire/expect it to be a part of real-life type games is beyond me!

[Percival Hasek]

RexTalon, on 16 November 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

If you force 3rd person I will open a class action suit against you insisting on getting money back for the HUGE number of people who have already paid for the game under the assumption that it will be 1st person.

If you make it an either/or option on servers, fine.

If you make it a simple setting option or button click it will ruin game balance. In which case, reference my first point.

If you'd like a legal statement from my lawyer, I'm sure that can be arranged. After squeezing $120 for each legendary founder, I'll be God damned if you're going to change the game on us this late in the process. ******* try me.

This post made be burst out laughing. Even if you do hate the idea of 3rd person view, this post had to come across as hilarious.

[darknothing]

Garth Erlam, on 16 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

Hi Mechwarriors,

So Russ let slip in an interview with No Guts No Galaxy we are looking into a 3rd person view option. It seems a lot of people are unhappy with this, so we’d like to explain our thought process here.

For reference, we also strongly recommend listening to Russ’s comments, as he provides a clear case for our approach.

Over the course of development, we’ve had a huge number of requests for a 3^rd person camera option. At this early stage, it’s something we feel that warrants further analysis, understanding and exploration.

MechWarrior Online is, and will always be, a game focused on 1st person combat in Mechs. That experience is sacrosanct to the classic Mechwarrior experience.

If we find that there is a relevant role for an optional 3^rd person camera mode, then then would simply be an additional option that, if you don’t want it, won’t affect you. Bryan will be writing a detailed Command Chair post on this (he's currently at 40,000 feet, and not by Jump Jetting) with more details. For now, be assured we're acutely aware of past problems with 3rd person view, and will make sure those same issues are thoroughly addressed. We wouldn’t settle for anything less.

Cheers,
The MechWarrior Online Team

isnt it funny that we voted 90% NO and u guys still dont listen? why ask then?

[Kalthios]

92 % NO, only 4% Yes

Give us more robo-features!

[Percival Hasek]

FragInc, on 16 November 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

Completely lost to the OP's explanation.

As for 3rd person.. NO! This is one of the things that I hate in "World of Tanks" and AFAIC, it simply cheapens the whole of the gameplay. There is no such thing as 3rd-person IRL so why people desire/expect it to be a part of real-life type games is beyond me!

Real life type game? Crap, you've got a fusion powered 'Mech in the garage. I feel so ripped off now.

Hey, just a thought what sounds more realsitic: , radar screens, proximity detectors, multiple display modes, IR sensors, seismic detectors, etc giving multiple ways to view the area around your unit, or simply relying on a window and maximum x3 level zoom for a sensor suite.

[Elder Thorn]

just to make sure i am registered ans someone who doesn't want a 3rd person view and while it's not my time you are managing i do not understand why you would look into what it would need from you if you are not going to make it - at least not at the current point, i am posting:

NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN

[Stoicblitzer]

optional 3rd person view is not a good idea. fixx CTDs plz.

[Tarrok]

I would have no issues with 3rd Person view in:

A. In a tutorial to highlight mech basics or perhaps a practice arena where you could test loadouts + heat generation before jumping into a battle. You could say it's a VR environment or simulation and there would be no immersion break. Plenty of time to oogle that mech of yours!

B. Only in battles involving newcomers. "Trial mech only" battles or some sort of beginner equivalent once the rest of the matchmaker/ranking system is worked out. A compromise but gives everyone starting the game help in figuring out the movement mechanics during battle situations.
Call them VR training battles for new MechWarrior cadets/trainees. Have camera drones follow the mechs so the pilots can learn how they handle the mech. After a couple of matches they could graduate and be cleared to drop in the field for real (without 3PV).


If you enable it for all battles then we'll have corner/crest peeking and other cheesy ways of getting an advantage. DayZ is a funny culprit of this, assuming the server has 3PV enabled.

But if the Devs are strictly trying to address the torso/leg issues that newer players are having then there are other ways of accomplishing that. A tutorial which shows a mech just ahead of you demonstrating the torso twist and movement will not break immersion, nor require 3PV. Alternatively, the tutorial could have a scriped camera to highlight how it works plus some on-screen cues for the arrow + torso arc so people understand what it is and how it can help them.

Or there's a bunch of other ways (as suggested by constructive posts), that issue could be addressed.

I'm also against 3PV unless it is limited. Still, that doesn't mean I'll bite off the heads of the devs for exploring 3PV. This game, like any other, needs to develop based on the needs of the people playing it. While there's a bunch of experienced gamers playing MWO that will have little, if any, difficulty getting the hang of the movement (I had no issues), there's also people that do have issues adapting to something new/different compared to most games out there.

My best friend struggles to get the hang of the movement and with limited playtime it can be a very real barrier for entry. Luckily, he had me on hand to step him through MechWarrior specific things, but that just points to one thing:

The game needs a tutorial.

A tutorial would avoid the 3PV camera issues in a competitive setting plus cover all the other important MechWarrior specific topics to help newcomers acclimate: "Shoot at specific parts of enemy mech", "Manage heat, avoid shutting down in the middle of combat", "Focus fire when possible", "Teamwork is everything", etc etc. Video tutorials on youtube are a stopgap, but I don't think many people know they exist nor is it a substitute with allowing the player to test these elements for himself during an in-game tutorial.

So if they are concerned with getting people used to the game, a tutorial would be better. If the Devs want a 3PV during combat, then limit it to unranked matches and/or some sort of VR testing world, perhaps linked with the mechbay for testing designs. Anything else would run the risk of forcing competitive players to abuse 3PV for advantages.

My 0.02 c-bills

Edited by Tarrok, 16 November 2012 - 06:23 PM.