2926 replies to this topic

[Chet Manley]

Quote

So Russ let slip in an interview with No Guts No Galaxy...

So you weren't planning on letting us know originally?

Card, on 16 November 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

Well, that was so vague that it said absolutely nothing, will accomplish nothing, and makes no one whatsoever feel any better about it at all.

Was that the point?

This pretty much sums it up for me.

[Dakkss]

I'll just spend my time on Planetside 2 instead, has proven to be way more promising. Maybe I'll come back here after a few months.

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

Garth Erlam, on 16 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

If we find that there is a relevant role for an optional 3^rd person camera mode, then then would simply be an additional option that, if you don’t want it, won’t affect you.

The optimist* in me reads the "if" as meaning that they will come to their senses soon and drop the issue, it really isn't going to fix what they think it will fix. Even the people that want 3rd person don't want it for the reasons PGI thinks they can use it for.

*Note that the optimist in me is very small, covered in blood and bruises, and chained naked in a very dark corner of my mind. But I can't help it, Scruffy th' Chaos Warrior believes in this comp'ny.

[Peace Possum]

Oh good, more hollow platitudes from the understaffed rookie dev studio who constantly claims they understand their audience and then goes out of their way to **** us all off.

[G o a]

Quote

MechWarrior Online is, and will always be, a game focused on 1st person combat in Mechs. That experience is sacrosanct to the classic Mechwarrior experience.

You guys are funny, especially the "purists". The only thing sacrosanct to classic mechwarrior was sitting around a table with your friends, watching the battle play out from your 3rd PERSON VIEW.

They are whining and making whatever thin excuses they can grab at because they don't want to learn to adapt to different play styles. PGI, you are commended for broaching this tough subject. Don't let the whingers make you make a bad decision that will limit the number of people that will try out this game.

If you say the game needs 3rd person to bring in players, then I believe you.

[BeteNoire]

This entire thread is disgraceful, honestly a lot of people need to get over their sense of entitlement.
They made a statement, put a place holder to say that they'll expand on the reasoning behind the consideration and all you can do is throw your toys up like a disgruntled 2 year old?

+1 internet.

[Kalthios]

G o a, on 16 November 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

...The only thing sacrosanct to classic mechwarrior was sitting around a table with your friends, watching the battle play out from your 3rd PERSON VIEW.

They are whining and making whatever thin excuses they can grab at because they don't want to learn to adapt to different play styles.

Wow, project much? Go play mechassault or poptart in mw4.

BeteNoire, I'm telling mommy.

Edited by Kalthios, 16 November 2012 - 06:49 PM.

[JoolNoret]

Tarrok, on 16 November 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

I would have no issues with 3rd Person view in:

A. In a tutorial to highlight mech basics or perhaps a practice arena where you could test loadouts + heat generation before jumping into a battle. You could say it's a VR environment or simulation and there would be no immersion break. Plenty of time to oogle that mech of yours!

B. Only in battles involving newcomers. "Trial mech only" battles or some sort of beginner equivalent once the rest of the matchmaker/ranking system is worked out. A compromise but gives everyone starting the game help in figuring out the movement mechanics during battle situations.
Call them VR training battles for new MechWarrior cadets/trainees. Have camera drones follow the mechs so the pilots can learn how they handle the mech. After a couple of matches they could graduate and be cleared to drop in the field for real (without 3PV).


If you enable it for all battles then we'll have corner/crest peeking and other cheesy ways of getting an advantage. DayZ is a funny culprit of this, assuming the server has 3PV enabled.

But if the Devs are strictly trying to address the torso/leg issues that newer players are having then there are other ways of accomplishing that. A tutorial which shows a mech just ahead of you demonstrating the torso twist and movement will not break immersion, nor require 3PV. Alternatively, the tutorial could have a scriped camera to highlight how it works plus some on-screen cues for the arrow + torso arc so people understand what it is and how it can help them.

Or there's a bunch of other ways (as suggested by constructive posts), that issue could be addressed.

I'm also against 3PV unless it is limited. Still, that doesn't mean I'll bite off the heads of the devs for exploring 3PV. This game, like any other, needs to develop based on the needs of the people playing it. While there's a bunch of experienced gamers playing MWO that will have little, if any, difficulty getting the hang of the movement (I had no issues), there's also people that do have issues adapting to something new/different compared to most games out there.

My best friend struggles to get the hang of the movement and with limited playtime it can be a very real barrier for entry. Luckily, he had me on hand to step him through MechWarrior specific things, but that just points to one thing:

The game needs a tutorial.

A tutorial would avoid the 3PV camera issues in a competitive setting plus cover all the other important MechWarrior specific topics to help newcomers acclimate: "Shoot at specific parts of enemy mech", "Manage heat, avoid shutting down in the middle of combat", "Focus fire when possible", "Teamwork is everything", etc etc. Video tutorials on youtube are a stopgap, but I don't think many people know they exist nor is it a substitute with allowing the player to test these elements for himself during an in-game tutorial.

So if they are concerned with getting people used to the game, a tutorial would be better. If the Devs want a 3PV during combat, then limit it to unranked matches and/or some sort of VR testing world, perhaps linked with the mechbay for testing designs. Anything else would run the risk of forcing competitive players to abuse 3PV for advantages.

My 0.02 c-bills

Agreed 110%. I think it desperately needs a practice/training area with tutorial. It's the rare gamer that actually reads the manual. Most of them that do are the ones watching Youtube videos and reading the forums. A small percentage of the actual base. The rest of them need the game to teach them how to play as they go along. It would go leaps and bounds at keeping new players. IMO, tutorials are equally as important as the other issues people have brought up. (i.e. 4 FPS after playing a few matches, collisions, etc.)

[CJF Ronin]

well I hope you bring it in , all the original MW games have had it, I find moving around in non combat alot easier in 3rd person.

[Darth JarJar]

Unfuckingbelieveable....

[Zphyr]

Thank you. Good to know that you know we know about something that we know that you know.

Shall wait to know something that you know that we do not know.

[tbl]

I cannot stress enough that this is BETA.
If you want a finished product just wait until the BETA is over. Until then you can afford to wait for fixes to come out.

[rexbinary]

3rd person view provides an unfair advantage against people using 1st person view.

Please build another game with a 3rd person view for people who want that.

I can't begin to express how upset I would be after paying double the cost of a normal triple AAA PC game to be forced to play in 3rd person mode to compete.

[BumbaCLot]

Garth Erlam, on 16 November 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

Just to make sure everyone, well, actually read that and listened to what Russ said, we don't plan to add 3rd person. We're looking at what it would require of us if we did.

I listened, and what I heard was 'we got your 5 million dollars BT geeks, we want 100 million and 3rd person is our ticket'.

[Alois Hammer]

Percival Hasek, on 16 November 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

This post made be burst out laughing. Even if you do hate the idea of 3rd person view, this post had to come across as hilarious.

Rarely fails when the "OMG I'll file teh laws00t" card gets played.

(Yeah, I hate the idea of 3rd person, and that post is still Pure Comedy Gold™.)

[Mr 144]

Yes, just like we were promised a detailed write-up on DHS after it was discovered that engine DHS were 2.0, while additional, and external were at the advertised 1.4...yes, detailed write-up forthcoming

BwaaaHaaHaaHa

Mr 144

[geck0 icaza]

Normally I am very open to what you guys are doing and wait to judge.

3rd person to me is just flat out stupid for a game professing to be a Mech sim. It makes no long term business sense to throw away your niche.

That's my opinion but I am willing to give you guys the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you just want it for falling down, or dropping from a drop ship, or repair bay animations, whatever. If thats the case, you should have said so.

But for combat play? F*&% No. Honestly the thought had me hold on to my credit card and wait til I got an answer. Its not a threat or boasting, but I guarantee plenty more people are doing that then there are people who are paying and want it.

But the worst part of all of this was this back handed no answer response. I am extremely disappointed in you guys for that one.

Edited by geck0 icaza, 16 November 2012 - 07:28 PM.

[JAFO]

Garth Erlam, on 16 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

If we find that there is a relevant role for an optional 3^rd person camera mode, then then would simply be an additional option that, if you don’t want it, won’t affect you.
Cheers,
The MechWarrior Online Team

There is no relevant role for 3rd person other than giving that pilot with 3rd person an advantage over a player that uses 1st person.

I am sorry guys, but your listening to the wrong people if your seriously considering 3rd person. It is a major disappointment to even see this as a discussion. You do this, you will alienate your devoted mechwarrior player base. The player base that is a majority of the founders in this game that put up money before we even saw the game.

Adding 3rd person will ruin this game, that is why so many people are against it.

Edited by JAFO, 16 November 2012 - 07:28 PM.

[VictoryRoad]

Spend the founder's money on things that need to get done to complete the game as promissed. No 3rd person.

I know you want to be able to draw in more players by makeing everyone happy but we all know every free to play game the non-pay-to-play players ask for everything. Why should the people who pay money have to fund for the debelopment they don't want. If there is 3rd person please set up a way to refund all the Founder's support for all thoughs that are getting upset about this subject.

[EpicStoryGuy]

Garth Erlam, on 16 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

Bryan will be writing a detailed Command Chair post on this (he's currently at 40,000 feet, and not by Jump Jetting) with more details. For now, be assured we're acutely aware of past problems with 3rd person view, and will make sure those same issues are thoroughly addressed. We wouldn’t settle for anything less.

The Devs have said they completely understand the third person advantage and are working on a system to compensate. So why are so many people in a tizzy?