2926 replies to this topic

[Pando]

Pando, on 23 June 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

snip

More accurately, you are the majority of the minority.

[Dude42]

Pando, on 23 June 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

stuff.

Why do they survey 1000 people to represent the entire population of the United States?

[Pando]

Dude42, on 23 June 2013 - 03:09 AM, said:

Why do they survey 1000 people to represent the entire population of the United States?

Went over this already in a prior post. For example, using Gallup. Gallup polls 1,000 people using every state and polls people where they are most likely found - at home.

Gallup would not poll the 1st 1,000 people let out of a Yankee's baseball game to find out which political candidate holds public favor.

Using the same example, a proper MWO poll would not poll from the tiny forum user population, instead it would pull from where the majority of players are found - in the game/email.

Edited by Pando, 23 June 2013 - 03:14 AM.

[Dude42]

Pando, on 23 June 2013 - 03:13 AM, said:

Went over this already in a prior post. For example, using Gallup. Gallup polls 1,000 people using every state and polls people where they are most likely found - at home.

Gallup would not poll the 1st 1,000 people let out of a Yankee's baseball game to find out which candidate holds public favor.

Using the same example, a proper MWO poll would not poll from the tiny forum user population, instead it would pull from where the majority of players are found - in the game/email.

Why does whether on not a user visits the forum have any bearing on their like or dislike of 3PV? Unless you can tell me why a forum user is by definition more likely to dislike 3PV your point is invalid. I think you're smart enough to know why.

[Pando]

Dude42, on 23 June 2013 - 03:15 AM, said:

Why does whether on not a user visits the forum have any bearing on their like or dislike of 3PV? Unless you can tell me why a forum user is by definition more likely to dislike 3PV your point is invalid. I think you're smart enough to know why.

You don't comprehend statistics or polling at even a basic level. My post clearly shows where the majority of players are. The forums, is there the majority IS NOT. Thus, making the poll you 1pv weenies cling to worthless for representing the entire player base.

Fact, PGI has already polled from our huge player base as indicated in ATD 38-40 can't recall which.
Fact, 3pv is coming.
Fact, there is nothing the tiny slice that is 13.71% even if UNITED could do about it. (which there are not 66,000+ people unified on these forums) It's amazing you found 3,000 (1%) that voted one way or the other.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2478571

#winning.

Edited by Pando, 23 June 2013 - 03:22 AM.

[Dude42]

Pando, on 23 June 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:

I don't comprehend statistics or polling at even a basic level.

It's hard to argue with someone who thinks he knows everything.

You did not answer the question. Have a nice day dude.

[Pando]

Dude42, on 23 June 2013 - 03:38 AM, said:

It's hard to argue with someone who thinks he knows everything.

You did not answer the question. Have a nice day dude.

Fine, i'll bite.

The relevance of a person visiting the forums to my particular argument regarding the accuracy of the two 3pv polls that plague a 1pv advocates every thought...

Is that this specific forum feature is the only way we as average forum users can compare how accurate polling is...because we can say for certain "X" number of accounts HAS visited the forums FOR SURE.

Additionally, "X" voted out of "Y" total that has FOR SURE visited the forums.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2478571

Edited by Pando, 23 June 2013 - 03:54 AM.

[Mr Blonde]

Pando, on 23 June 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:

You don't comprehend statistics or polling at even a basic level. My post clearly shows where the majority of players are. The forums, is there the majority IS NOT. Thus, making the poll you 1pv weenies cling to worthless for representing the entire player base.

Fact, PGI has already polled from our huge player base as indicated in ATD 38-40 can't recall which.
Fact, 3pv is coming.
Fact, there is nothing the tiny slice that is 13.71% even if UNITED could do about it. (which there are not 66,000+ people unified on these forums) It's amazing you found 3,000 (1%) that voted one way or the other.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2478571

#winning.

If 3PV is so popular with the community, why all the deception? We were told for half a year that there was no way. Then when it slipped, they denied it. Then we were told only one person was working on it, making it sound like he's Milton from Office Space down in the basement. Now it takes precedence over CW. I ask again, is the primary reason for playing the game going to be the CW experience, taking planets and such as the BT we all know and love? Or is it more important for a bunch of whiny noobs to be able to watch themselves run and shoot from behind their cockpit? Do you think this huge player base supposedly polled wants 3PV more than they want CW? More than they want 2 mechs/month? More than a few more maps or game modes? More than they want Clans (I know not everyone wants Clans but at least that's something everyone knew was coming from the start)?

I would be curious to see the results if a poll of the community were put that way. I have my suspicions about any "poll" they did anyway, and I sure was never polled. I'm pretty sure these new-fangled "computers" they have now could send an email to everyone registered for the game, give a time limit, and calculate all responses which could be clicked on to select. Let's see if 3PV comes up in the majority. If I'm wrong, I'll shut my pie-hole. However, I bet 3PV goes down in flames in that poll like a Blackjack standing still in front of a Stalker, especially if compared to those other potential things programmers could be working on. Then we don't have to use statistics to try and guess, which as we all know from statistics class, are one of the three major categories of lies ("lies, damned lies and statistics" according to my old prob & stats professor). Of course we all know statistics have nothing to do with this, nor polls. It was planned from the start, and we were sold a bill of goods to get sim players in early. Thus the lawyer-speak in the original post, which we were all too overjoyed to really look into I guess.

[Pando]

Mr Blonde, on 23 June 2013 - 04:01 AM, said:

If 3PV is so popular with the community, why all the deception? (1) We were told for half a year that there was no way. (2)Then when it slipped, they denied it. (3)Then we were told only one person was working on it, making it sound like he's Milton from Office Space down in the basement. (4)Now it takes precedence over CW. I ask again, is the primary reason for playing the game going to be the CW experience, taking planets and such as the BT we all know and love? Or is it more important for a (6)bunch of whiny noobs to be able to watch themselves run and shoot from behind their cockpit? Do you think this huge player base supposedly polled wants 3PV more than they want CW? More than they want 2 mechs/month? More than a few more maps or game modes? More than they want Clans (I know not everyone wants Clans but at least that's something everyone knew was coming from the start)?

I would be curious to see the results if a poll of the community were put that way. I have my suspicions about any "poll" they did anyway, and I sure was never polled. I'm pretty sure these new-fangled "computers" they have now could send an email to everyone registered for the game, give a time limit, and calculate all responses which could be clicked on to select. Let's see if 3PV comes up in the majority. If I'm wrong, I'll shut my pie-hole. However, I bet 3PV goes down in flames in that poll like a Blackjack standing still in front of a Stalker, especially if compared to those other potential things programmers could be working on. Then we don't have to use statistics to try and guess, which as we all know from statistics class, are one of the three major categories of lies ("lies, damned lies and statistics" according to my old prob & stats professor). Of course we all know statistics have nothing to do with this, nor polls. (5)It was planned from the start, and we were sold a bill of goods to get sim players in early. Thus the lawyer-speak in the original post, which we were all too overjoyed to really look into I guess.

I've highlighted and numbered select excerpts from your response. I'll address each one individually (hopefully with references).

1) It was mentioned it was not being actively pursued at that specific moment in time. Additionally, PGI never said "NO" they said basically that 1pv will always be true mechwarrior. Nowhere in that sentence did they omit 3pv from being an equal part of the mechwarrior experience.

2) Slipped as in, it had always been on the table....and they let the community know on a podcast before an official post.

3) Really didn't need more than 1 if any...we had 3pv in closed beta it just only appeared when you were knocked down.

4) It's not taking precedence over CW, comparatively speaking 1 item that had been completed in closed beta (3pv) to something that's taken years to develop and implement (CW). Really.........reallly..........reallllllyyyy.....how did you come to this conclusion...seriously.

5) Exactly, the first comments by developers regarding 3pv were vague for a reason. Like i said for #1, when it was quoted by a developer they addressed 1pv as the true mechwarrior experience....but not the ENTIRE mechwarrior experience.

6) Bunch of whiny newbs. The only bunch of whiny newbs I see, are the forum users filling this thread with "IMA QUIT IF 3PV COMES, 3pv AIN'T NO MECHWARRIOR MODE, NEVER HAS BEEN NEVER WILL BE" which is ******* IGNORANT.

Someone, anyone if you have the links to what the developers have said feel freeeeee to group them together, and send them to me in a PM so I can put them in this response.

Edited by Pando, 23 June 2013 - 04:21 AM.

[Axesci]

I personally don’t like the idea of 3PV, and I believe tutorials and AI-controlled mechs in the training grounds would be a far better route for welcoming new players. I am worried about the splitting of player base and the impact on CW when it comes. I do hope everything goes smooth and that everyone will be happy when the game launches.

Fight on, but keep it civilized.

[Hotthedd]

Pando, on 23 June 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

This message is for anyone out there on the forums who clings to the 2 threads created which had the highest turn-out of any player created poll thread, and was created regarding 3pv. The message is, YOU ARE THE MINORITY. Those two polls are inaccurate for representing the 480,200 registered members and here's why!

If this poll were accurate 3,500 persons can accurately represent 480,000. However, it is very poor at best and can only say for certain that 3,000 persons out of 3,500 persons are against/ do not want 3rd person.

Out of 480,200 registered users 419,580 have never posted...leaving 66,620 that HAS visited the forums and posted for sure at-least once.

source - advanced search (http://mwomercs.com/...__1__st__419520)

Using ^ as a filter for helping find how accurate the the poll above is. All below numbers are *at time of writing*.

Begin with 486,200 unique accounts
Of those 419,580 unique accounts have never posted on forums @0 posts
So 66,620 members have posted on the forums @ 1+ posts
Of 66,620 members 3,500 voted in the 3pv poll
)86.29% of players have not posted (assume has not visited forums)
)13.71% of players have posted (assume has visited forums)
out of the 13.71% of the players that have posted, 5.25% voted in the 3pv thread
Out of 5.25% of the players that voted 85.7% said NO.
Are you seeing how you/we are the minority?

So, what does the 3pv poll thread prove? It only says with utmost certainty that there are 3,000 forum users out of 66,620 OR 4.50% of the total participating forum users that said "NO" to 3pv.

For the last time....minority.

You inaccurately assume that the players who did not take part in the forum poll are pro-3PV.
I would argue that the 150 people who voted in favor of 3PV are the true minority.
If MW:O actually had 480,000 players, there would be absolutely no need to court the 3PV crowd from other games.

[DeaconW]

Mr Blonde, on 23 June 2013 - 04:01 AM, said:

<response to Pando>

I discovered a while back that the best way to view Pando's posts is like this:

<This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by Pando. View it anyway?>

I call it "3PV" for the forums...

Hotthedd, on 23 June 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

You inaccurately assume that the players who did not take part in the forum poll are pro-3PV.
I would argue that the 150 people who voted in favor of 3PV are the true minority.
If MW:O actually had 480,000 players, there would be absolutely no need to court the 3PV crowd from other games.

Stop making sense...

Edited by DeaconW, 23 June 2013 - 12:24 PM.

[Grimmnyr]

Pando, on 23 June 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

This message is for anyone out there on the forums who clings to the 2 threads created which had the highest turn-out of any player created poll thread, and was created regarding 3pv. The message is, YOU ARE THE MINORITY. Those two polls are inaccurate for representing the 480,200 registered members and here's why!

If this poll were accurate 3,500 persons can accurately represent 480,000. However, it is very poor at best and can only say for certain that 3,000 persons out of 3,500 persons are against/ do not want 3rd person.

Out of 480,200 registered users 419,580 have never posted...leaving 66,620 that HAS visited the forums and posted for sure at-least once.

source - advanced search (http://mwomercs.com/...__1__st__419520)

Using ^ as a filter for helping find how accurate the the poll above is. All below numbers are *at time of writing*.

Begin with 486,200 unique accounts
Of those 419,580 unique accounts have never posted on forums @0 posts
So 66,620 members have posted on the forums @ 1+ posts
Of 66,620 members 3,500 voted in the 3pv poll
)86.29% of players have not posted (assume has not visited forums)
)13.71% of players have posted (assume has visited forums)
out of the 13.71% of the players that have posted, 5.25% voted in the 3pv thread
Out of 5.25% of the players that voted 85.7% said NO.
Are you seeing how you/we are the minority?

So, what does the 3pv poll thread prove? It only says with utmost certainty that there are 3,000 forum users out of 66,620 OR 4.50% of the total participating forum users that said "NO" to 3pv.

For the last time....minority.

Pando, out of this 480,200 account number that you have produced rectally, how many are "active." I personally know more than one player who have multiple accounts. The Point is, the the majority of people who are active on this forum do not want 3PV. I for one, do not mine 3PV as long as it is in a separate game mode as PGI is currently planning on implementing it. I won't mind the longer queues.

[Mr Blonde]

The problem Pando may have inadvertently found is that most players probably don't even know this is coming. It will be in place before they bother to look. Some will quit, some won't, then the game goes downhill and they pretend not to know why. I still contend he must be an alternate account for an IGP exec. Otherwise his absolute devotion would just be odd.

LOL just having fun with you Pando.

[Coolant]

Caballo, on 21 June 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

*Cracking Knuckles*

Irrelevant:

How can you say that is irrelevant, when the post clearly states 3pv is not going to be included (To set the background, when the whole community at the time was considerating if there was a reason to pay or not to pay for the game) and they changed their mind in front of your eyes after cashing. THIS IS A LIE, they've cheated you, sorry.

Cracking knuckles....Round and round you go satisfying your narrow-minded view of the world. If I own a business selling ice cream and say I will only ever sell ice cream, and then I find out that during the winter revenue is hurting and so I start selling hot chocolate to some customers while still selling ice cream to my regulars, would I be accused of lying lol? It's called business. Some of you that claim PGI is lying should try being a business owner some time and see what kind of decisions you have to make.

The community wanted 3PV so they acquiesced, while still enabling the core player base to play FPV only:

Quote

No, the community didn't. FYI, and in case you've been living under a rock for the last month, and looks like, what the community said (Through 2 consecutive polls, both of them conveniently deleted by merging the topics) is this:

Do you want 3pv?:
NO=1398
yes=98

Add up all the votes cast and you have less than 1% of the registered users, not to mention future players. Since the core is already here, do you really think that 1st Person view only is gonna draw in future players that don't care about the Battletech universe or TT, or lore? You need both views to cater.

Kyocera, on 22 June 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

3PV and the optional opt-in/out will be fine... except the game just doesn't have the active population to support any more splitting.

The only thing I can think of is that PGI desperately think adding 3PV might increase the population.

[insert "LOL meme face" here]

and you know the game doesn't have the active population because of what? I mean seriously, other than you see the same players often. Without an accurate in-depth explanation of exactly how players get matched up that they only know in-house, you only have conjecture...your opinion. That's it. You can't claim more than that. You have no facts to back it up. I on the other hand do. Go into the Jeagermech heavy tournament, see where you rank. A player I know who isn't normally a heavy pilot is ranked 750. You have to be opted in. So, for a single mech category that you have to opt in for, and who knows how many are below him there is conservatively at least 750 pilots. Add to the facts that Bryan in his Reddit chat found: http://www.reddit.co...ve_director_of/ (located about a quarter of the way down) shows there are PLENTY of pilots (thousands playing at any one time) regardless of game types or PoV. And, of course, since the infamous polls show there are sooooo many 1st Person only pilots out there (what like 99%) or some incredibly staggering percentage, then it's not an issue cause you'll have players to shoot against, right? But, what if you are right...the population is very low (oh no!), then we need new players and so catering to those wanting to play 3rd Person is a smart business decision. Either way your arguments are indeed irrelevant

Edited by Coolant, 23 June 2013 - 01:41 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Coolant, on 23 June 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

Cracking knuckles....Round and round you go satisfying your narrow-minded view of the world. If I own a business selling ice cream and say I will only ever sell ice cream, and then I find out that during the winter revenue is hurting and so I start selling hot chocolate to some customers while still selling ice cream to my regulars, would I be accused of lying lol? It's called business. Some of you that claim PGI is lying should try being a business owner some time and see what kind of decisions you have to make.

Spurious argument - everybody knows ice cream and hot chocolate are, more often than not, found together, making these two products poor selections to support your POV. But, you are from California and probably are unfamiliar with that fact, so I will cut you some slack. (BTW, they would say you were brilliant) Not so with 3PV if ECM implementation is any indication.

What PGI will do, once they bring in 3PV, is attract transient players who will "check it out" for a little while then move on to the next new game. I will not play 3PV matches of any sort - because I can choose to play what I want to play, or not as the case may be, regardless of what PGI does. I liken 3PV in a mech game to Mario-cart and based on my experience with MW-based game, guys that normally play 3PV stink at 1PV ("because it is too hard") The other thing they will need to do is make the game more arcade hand controller friendly. I could care less about that.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 23 June 2013 - 02:24 PM.

[Inconspicuous]

Mostly I am bummed that I won't be able to play with the same group of guys as a few will go 3pv and the rest 1pv (and eventually the euros will be culled from the ranks as well [by the eventual and promised regional server split]).

Oh well as long as they don't add power-ups I suppose I will continue to play...

They aren't ever adding power ups, right...?

[Mr Blonde]

Maybe instead of powerups they will add randomly placed repair bays like MW4...you can keep a battle going for hours!!!

[Pando]

Ed Steele, on 23 June 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Pando, out of this 480,200 account number that you have produced rectally, how many are "active." I personally know more than one player who have multiple accounts. The Point is, the the majority of people who are active on this forum do not want 3PV. I for one, do not mine 3PV as long as it is in a separate game mode as PGI is currently planning on implementing it. I won't mind the longer queues.

Rectally? Here, I'll help you with this one.



Now, since we've settled that ****** spewing you call "talking" and by talking I mean forum typing....go ahead...MAKE MY DAY inflate the numbers I used above to show every single 1 person creates 8 total accounts...you're still the majority of a minority and the poll STILL does not reflect an accurate sample.

The majority of people active on the forums represent a tiny vocal minority...that is apart of the minority of the players encompass mechwarrior online....

/argument GOOD DAY SIR

Edited by Pando, 23 June 2013 - 06:21 PM.

[Skoaljaw]

Screw it... Lets go bowling