2926 replies to this topic

[Kraven Kor]

We've heard that a few times regarding other features.

Maybe I was just posting an Optimistic Thought?

[Windies]

Kraven Kor, on 11 July 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

We've heard that a few times regarding other features.

Maybe I was just posting an Optimistic Thought?

An optimistic thought would be something like Community Warfare, and I mean an actual Community Warfare along the lines of what was described in the original "pillars" of the game, not a scoreboard with Liao - 1 Clans - 0. 3pv however, is basically a sure thing at this point.

[Faolan65]

I'm not going to read through 143 pages, but if anyone hasn't mentioned it yet, here it is...

Why not take a page from Chris Roberts and Star Citizen's book with their approach to 3rd person?

Skip to 33:40 https://www.youtube....BxTuzco#at=2030

This would eliminate the need to separate the player base.

Edited by Faolan65, 12 July 2013 - 11:27 AM.

[mrcrazymonkey]

143 pages, PGI really hit a nerve with this one. This has gotten more replies than Project Phoenix.

[Warge]

Faolan65, on 12 July 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

Skip to 33:40 https://www.youtube....BxTuzco#at=2030

This would eliminate the need to separate the player base.

Sort of this PGI promised. But you see - the problem is in different game-classes. All about it was on previous 142 pages.

[Victor Morson]

SJ SCP Wolf, on 06 July 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

I have not see those statements. In fact I have seen nothing but statements to the opposite from PGI staff stating the 1PV is their primary view mode. So unless you have some source links, Kiss off.

How about we take yet another step back and ask why PGI is so intent on adding a feature with such overwhelming hatred towards it, and what that means for the future of the game, instead?

[The Trice]

Victor Morson, on 15 July 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

How about we take yet another step back and ask why PGI is so intent on adding a feature with such overwhelming hatred towards it, and what that means for the future of the game, instead?

Nothing . Didn't they say it will be 2 separate modes ? then If you don't like it , then you will play in first person mode with other gamers in the same mod .
But for the question of why they want to implement it so bad , simply because world of tanks did . and if they didnt they will never have the same income as world of tanks or the same database (few like the simulation feel and enjot more the action of the mechs) Prove is simple in MW4 most players were playing in third person because its more fun .
More fun= More players = more money

*Some random player : but it will open door to cheating ..blah blah blah , third person view will not give u more privilege than seismic sensor.
2nd they said they made it in a way that will not allow cheating.
3rd even if its not possible to do it that way , Why bother you dont like it , dont play it . and if you guys see that you are the majority of players that disagree with 3rd person then that's fine when it comes to the game , everyone will be playing 1st person and few will only play third person .
But of course the reality that every one will move to third person , and sooner after 1 year the 1st person view will be canceled due to low player database , Wait for it to come to the game and you will see this happening .

[Hotthedd]

The Trice, on 15 July 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

Nothing . Didn't they say it will be 2 separate modes ? then If you don't like it , then you will play in first person mode with other gamers in the same mod .
But for the question of why they want to implement it so bad , simply because world of tanks did . and if they didnt they will never have the same income as world of tanks or the same database (few like the simulation feel and enjot more the action of the mechs) Prove is simple in MW4 most players were playing in third person because its more fun .
More fun= More players = more money

*Some random player : but it will open door to cheating ..blah blah blah , third person view will not give u more privilege than seismic sensor.
2nd they said they made it in a way that will not allow cheating.
3rd even if its not possible to do it that way , Why bother you dont like it , dont play it . and if you guys see that you are the majority of players that disagree with 3rd person then that's fine when it comes to the game , everyone will be playing 1st person and few will only play third person .
But of course the reality that every one will move to third person , and sooner after 1 year the 1st person view will be canceled due to low player database , Wait for it to come to the game and you will see this happening .

You incorrectly assume that more people played 3PV in MW4 because it was more fun. I believe that more people played 3PV in MW4 out of necessity. The advantages of 3PV were just too great. I see the same thing is going to happen in MW:O, and you are correct insofar as people will stop supporting the game. I just gave nearly $200.00 to Star Citizen INSTEAD of MW:O, because I do not trust IGP/PGI.

[Vehement]

8100d 5p4tt3r, on 11 July 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

What truly baffles me is why is it that we can target an enemy mech and see their weapon load out, yet we can not target a friendly unit and see their load out.

We should NOT be able to see the weapon config of enemy mechs. The mystery is that we can see missle racks, but they may be empty, we can see barrels and we can tell either ballistic or enegy, but is it a PPC or an ER, is it a Gause or an AC-5 is the missle rack two SRM 2s or an SRM 4? Two LRM 10s or an LRM 20?

I can't recall the last time at least in the novels where a full load out of an enemy mech was easily viewed at initial contact... unless information was acquire via Intel gathering prior to the conflict.

Even than only usually the clans when they issue a challenge will they reveal their unit load outs, or a specific mech config to the opponents...

This whole 3PV thing is a joke, fix other aspects of the game FIRST.

just my .03 1/4

Here's the deal. Only recently has MWO been visually showing the actual weapons equipped on the mech. Newer mechs represent this beautifully. (equip a Jagger with an AC20 and notice the barrel change, then swap that to 1 AC2 and an AC5) DEFINITE difference. Now do something similar with the Quickdraw on the lasers... switch from LLaser to PPC or to the Flamer... again, huge difference. What is so impossible to believe that in a time where warriors pilot huge computer controlled, mechanically assisted behemoths, that there would be a computer program that from your cockpit could target the enemy mech, determine by the size and location of various weapons in their hardpoints, and identify them correctly. Hell, you can almost do that visually with the newer mechs. I understand that the older mechs need to be revamped to better visually represent what weapons are actually equipped, but why the rant? It makes sense to me if they finish what they started on the graphical representation of what is mounted on the mech.

[Vehement]

All I can say to the previous 142 pages of complaints, whines, gripes, *******, moans and cry-baby madness is... wait until more information is available before you go picking apart every detail of a proposed concept. You don't know ANY of the details of how or if they will implement this. Why go tearing down something not yet built when you don't even know what is being constructed? I have been here since day 1, and I am, at the very least, curious about the 3rd person view and quite frankly would like to see it implemented. Even if they have to set aside a separate arena for 3rd person view matches only. I spend, ... well, let's just say a lot more than the average person, on paint jobs and patterns for mechs that I never get to enjoy visually. Oh wait, yes I do... If I die I get to see my colored scrap as it folds to the ground in an unrecognizable heap of salvage. I think the introduction of 3rd person view would bring a big enough client base to support a second arena such as that. But you know what? I don't know, neither do you, nor do they. They are looking into the possibilities, they have set nothing in concrete. Why are some of you being so damn counter-productive and crying like school children over a system not yet even conceived yet? Constructive input = awesome. Even somewhat "vehement" opinions may be helpful. But this crying, whining and being 4-year olds over nothing but an idea at this point is ridiculous and laughable. Put your big boy pants on, think about this constructively and not destructively, give them a chance to do their job by fully researching this concept, and dry up already. This forum is not sponsored by Kleenex or Puffs... take your senseless tears that way ------> Have a special day

Edited by Vehement, 16 July 2013 - 08:42 AM.

[Belorion]

Hotthedd, on 16 July 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

You incorrectly assume that more people played 3PV in MW4 because it was more fun. I believe that more people played 3PV in MW4 out of necessity. The advantages of 3PV were just too great. I see the same thing is going to happen in MW:O, and you are correct insofar as people will stop supporting the game. I just gave nearly $200.00 to Star Citizen INSTEAD of MW:O, because I do not trust IGP/PGI.

Isn't Star Citizen doing 3pv?

[Jaded Mantis]

The problem for me is that currently we do not have a Battletech style cockpit where you have 360 degree vision as per the source literature. None of this silly glass cockpit we have now. Although I did not play with the 3PV in MW4 but preferred 1st person I would be interested to see if their implementation of 3PV would better represent the all round vision of the Battletech fiction. Of course that raises the question of where my rear lasers have gone...

[SmogMonster1]

If they want to bring in an optional 3rd person view , Then it will need to be in its own battleground that you que for seperately. keep the 9% in there and let the rest of us play the game how a mech game should be

[Grimmnyr]

The "advanced imaging" sequences in the Battletech cartoon, beautifully illustrate the advantages of 3PV.

[Hotthedd]

Belorion, on 16 July 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

Isn't Star Citizen doing 3pv?

Yes, they are. They never said they weren't (unlike MW:O). Even so, actual combat in 3PV looks to be more difficult than in 1PV in that game, but we shall see.

The problem is that this game has altered the deal several times (AFTER taking our money), and we are still dealing with secrets (CW, clans). The problem is that PGI (or IGP - - who knows?) can look at a poll of its beta testers that is 95% AGAINST an issue and dismiss them as "not our target demographic". The problem is that a game mechanic that will doom the game (Pinpoint front-loaded alpha strikes) is IGNORED, while features that mean nothing (Hero mechs and custom skins) take priority. The problem is that after this long, players only have 2 deathmatch modes on a few repetitive maps. The problem is that whatever PGI promised, or WILL promise, is subject to veto by IGP.

Implementing 3PV against the advice of the majority of the playerbase is a SYMPTOM, not the disease.

And I have little faith the disease will be cured, therefore I vote with my wallet.

[Coolant]

Hotthedd, on 16 July 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

You incorrectly assume that more people played 3PV in MW4 because it was more fun. I believe that more people played 3PV in MW4 out of necessity. The advantages of 3PV were just too great. I see the same thing is going to happen in MW:O, and you are correct insofar as people will stop supporting the game. I just gave nearly $200.00 to Star Citizen INSTEAD of MW:O, because I do not trust IGP/PGI.

absolutely incorrect. IF the majority of players here that voted against 3rd Person played MW4:Mercs then 1st Person only servers should've been the norm, the majority. It was JUST AS EASY to make a 1st Person only server as it was a 3rd/1st Person server. It has absolutely nothing to do with 3PV advantages. In a 1st Person only server you played against ONLY 1st Person players and so NO ADVANTAGE. I have made the point over and over again, and I have yet to hear a valid argument against it. There is no arguments against it. The 3rd Person servers were numerous the 1st Person were not. Therefore, THERE MUST BE a target audience for 3rd Person.

Edited by Coolant, 16 July 2013 - 09:41 AM.

[Coolant]

look, I get it...if you could show that the previous title in the series was overwhemingly 1st Person, it would lend credible evidence against 3rd Person. Unfortunately for you, it is the opposite. Let's walk it thru step by step:

I love the Sim feeling of 1st Person just like I know the community must agree and so after finishing the campaign in Mercs I venture into Multiplayer, create a server, click the 1st Person only box rather than the 3rd Person box and wait for players to show up. I just know within minutes I will have a the best, coolest, full Merc's server on the plant. And, I wait, and I wait, oh there's someone...after about 5 show up no more join. One person says let me jump out and see how many other 1st Person servers we're competing against for players. They say they'll be right back. After a couple minutes that person returns and says, "geez, most of the players are playing in that disgusting, cheating, look around corners and buildings servers". A discussion starts in the lobby about how 3rd Person is so arcade-like and as the discussion continues the server-owner thinks to himself/herself, I thought the community loved 1st Person?

I realize there was a 1st person mod and league, but there are 2 arguments against all the players being there, 1) I don't remember there EVER being a majority of 1st Person only servers in Mercs so where were the 1st Person only players before the mod or league came out, and 2) it still shows there is a target audience out there for 3rd Person as that was the majority audience playing Mercs.

What is the simplest, and the reason that makes most sense why Mercs was 3rd person majority? Because there is a large gaming base that wants 3rd Person. It also makes sense that the community in MWO that is so against 3rd Person is the vocal minority. It also makes the most sense that PGI is going after a silent majority. You can argue against it, but you would be railing against common sense.

Edited by Coolant, 16 July 2013 - 10:48 AM.

[Faust of Steiner]

Simple solution: Allow for 1st person locked matches and 3rd person locked matches. I think Socom on the PS2 did this way back in the day. Some times you feel nut... am i right, or am I right?

Simple solution: Allow for 1st person locked matches and 3rd person locked matches. I think Socom on the PS2 did this way back in the day. Some times you feel nut... am i right, or am I right?

[Hotthedd]

Coolant, on 16 July 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

look, I get it...if you could show that the previous title in the series was overwhemingly 1st Person, it would lend credible evidence against 3rd Person. Unfortunately for you, it is the opposite. Let's walk it thru step by step:

I love the Sim feeling of 1st Person just like I know the community must agree and so after finishing the campaign in Mercs I venture into Multiplayer, create a server, click the 1st Person only box rather than the 3rd Person box and wait for players to show up. I just know within minutes I will have a the best, coolest, full Merc's server on the plant. And, I wait, and I wait, oh there's someone...after about 5 show up no more join. One person says let me jump out and see how many other 1st Person servers we're competing against for players. They say they'll be right back. After a couple minutes that person returns and says, "geez, most of the players are playing in that disgusting, cheating, look around corners and buildings servers". A discussion starts in the lobby about how 3rd Person is so arcade-like and as the discussion continues the server-owner thinks to himself/herself, I thought the community loved 1st Person?

I realize there was a 1st person mod and league, but there are 2 arguments against all the players being there, 1) I don't remember there EVER being a majority of 1st Person only servers in Mercs so where were the 1st Person only players before the mod or league came out, and 2) it still shows there is a target audience out there for 3rd Person as that was the majority audience playing Mercs.

What is the simplest, and the reason that makes most sense why Mercs was 3rd person majority? Because there is a large gaming base that wants 3rd Person. It also makes sense that the community in MWO that is so against 3rd Person is the vocal minority. It also makes the most sense that PGI is going after a silent majority. You can argue against it, but you would be railing against common sense.

What you are saying makes sense, but there are too many unknown variables that must be assumed in order to say you are 100% correct.

We have no way of knowing how many players never played MW4 on the private servers either because they never knew they existed, played for a time on a 3PV server and quit, did not know how to host their own server, etc. People generally follow the path of least resistance.

I do know that 1PV purists did put their money behind this game with the promise that MW:O would be as close to a sim as possible. That deal has been altered.

Believe me when I sincerely say: "Good luck. I hope this works out for everyone."

As for me, I may still play after 3PV comes out, but I do not think I will EVER give money to any game IGP has a hand in from this point forward.

[Morhadel]

Vehement, on 16 July 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

Here's the deal. Only recently has MWO been visually showing the actual weapons equipped on the mech. Newer mechs represent this beautifully. (equip a Jagger with an AC20 and notice the barrel change, then swap that to 1 AC2 and an AC5) DEFINITE difference. Now do something similar with the Quickdraw on the lasers... switch from LLaser to PPC or to the Flamer... again, huge difference. What is so impossible to believe that in a time where warriors pilot huge computer controlled, mechanically assisted behemoths, that there would be a computer program that from your cockpit could target the enemy mech, determine by the size and location of various weapons in their hardpoints, and identify them correctly. Hell, you can almost do that visually with the newer mechs. I understand that the older mechs need to be revamped to better visually represent what weapons are actually equipped, but why the rant? It makes sense to me if they finish what they started on the graphical representation of what is mounted on the mech.

have you seen this mech before?

That huge barrel on top? It's a SMALL pulse laser. LPL in each arm Gauss in left and right torsos behind a pair of bay doors and on top SPL because it looks scarier this way.

Quote

Isn't Star Citizen doing 3pv?

yes but it has been stated that in 3pv you loose functionality.

Coolant, on 16 July 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

look, I get it...if you could show that the previous title in the series was overwhemingly 1st Person, it would lend credible evidence against 3rd Person. Unfortunately for you, it is the opposite. Let's walk it thru step by step:

I love the Sim feeling of 1st Person just like I know the community must agree and so after finishing the campaign in Mercs I venture into Multiplayer, create a server, click the 1st Person only box rather than the 3rd Person box and wait for players to show up. I just know within minutes I will have a the best, coolest, full Merc's server on the plant. And, I wait, and I wait, oh there's someone...after about 5 show up no more join. One person says let me jump out and see how many other 1st Person servers we're competing against for players. They say they'll be right back. After a couple minutes that person returns and says, "geez, most of the players are playing in that disgusting, cheating, look around corners and buildings servers". A discussion starts in the lobby about how 3rd Person is so arcade-like and as the discussion continues the server-owner thinks to himself/herself, I thought the community loved 1st Person?

I realize there was a 1st person mod and league, but there are 2 arguments against all the players being there, 1) I don't remember there EVER being a majority of 1st Person only servers in Mercs so where were the 1st Person only players before the mod or league came out, and 2) it still shows there is a target audience out there for 3rd Person as that was the majority audience playing Mercs.

What is the simplest, and the reason that makes most sense why Mercs was 3rd person majority? Because there is a large gaming base that wants 3rd Person. It also makes sense that the community in MWO that is so against 3rd Person is the vocal minority. It also makes the most sense that PGI is going after a silent majority. You can argue against it, but you would be railing against common sense.

Silent Majority??????? so everyone who does not post or vote there opinion is for 3pv? So in the next Presidential elections, anyone who doesn't vote, do we count their "Silent Majority" vote for the democrats or the republicans?

What is more likely is that the "Silent Majority" is split the same way the "Vocal Minority" is. 90% against 3pv, 10% for it.

Edited by Morhadel, 16 July 2013 - 01:01 PM.