2926 replies to this topic

[StORmTrAin]

So make 3PV a toggle for the purists and full time for the ones who enjoy playing 3PV all the time?

[Aggressor666]

StORmTrAin, on 02 December 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

So make 3PV a toggle for the purists and full time for the ones who enjoy playing 3PV all the time?

unless there's no clear advantage to 3pv like it was in MW4 such as looking over a ridge without exposing your mech at all poptart sniping and vastly better field of view then 1st PV
they should make it one or the other not both

[Satorii]

while I agree with the number of game breaking issues with implementing 3rd person options into a FPS, everyone who keeps calling MWO is a "simulator" needs to put down the crack pipe.

[Kavoh]

If that poll would have been 90% in the favor of 3rd person, we would never hear the end of how its the wishes of the population and it means everything! Its really stupid. There is barely anyone defending 3rd person, and thats shown in not just the poll, but ALL the discussions too.

While it may attract a few players here and there, it will also drive away current players as well. Where do you people honestly even begin to believe that this will attract any noticeable number of players at all? People are not lined up with this game bookmarked, just WAITING for it to announce third person. Either they like the game or not, it has nothing to do with waiting specifically for a view...

And no, as stated earlier, while we may gain a few players here and there, it will NEVER be enough to offset such staggering divisions in the player base. Remember, its not just a 1pv/3pv split. Once we split the viewpoints, then we have different houses, merc corps, the lone wolves, planets certain houses need to defend, planets that mercs can take up contracts to attack, etc... WE CANNOT DO THAT WITH A THIN PLAYERBASE. One side will be damn near unplayable and will cause people to either leave completely, or forsake that viewpoint just because they cant play, which leads to a waste of time and resources, upset players, and more.

This is taking way to much thought and adjusting to try and cram this into a section of the game that does not want it. The devs keep trying to convince themselves again and again. Each podcast gives some different BS reason as to why they want it, but no matter what, they are unreasonably eager to add this to the game for no reason.

The cycle has been:

"Devs: Oh, we need to help players to learn to play easier..."

"Playerbase: lolno, don't even think about it. Its not hard to lrn2torsotwist and there are already resources available to do so."

"Devs: Well... we also kind of think that its needed in some way, cause its better for the growth of the game..."

"Playerbase: That still isn't a good enough reason... This was sold as 1pv only... Here is why ______"

"Devs: Alright, well, we want to steal WoTs players, and third person is the best way to do that as there are so many people wanting it!

"Playerbase: "The players still playing WoT like it for the game it is, and wont magically switch because a different game shares the same 3pv. We will lose more players then gain in this situation"

"Devs: *Fingers in ears* Don't care, we want it."

Edited by Kavoh, 02 December 2012 - 03:04 PM.

[420YOLOSWAGMASTER]

I normally never post on forums regarding things like this but this is a terrible idea to introduce 3rd person to this game, especially for the reasons you guys give. Create a tutorial and new players won't be so overwhelmed. Maybe IN the tutorial, allow 3rd person. Then phase into 1st person rapidly and don't let people look back. Maybe in a testing arena it would be okay. But NEVER for matches. Even if you have the option to only play with other people in a certain view mode, this is a terrible idea. I would definitely drop playing this game if you guys impliment this and really mess it up.

[ghos t in the shel l]

420YOLOSWAGMASTER, on 02 December 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

I would definitely drop playing this game if you guys impliment this and really mess it up.

Well guess what they are implementing it so you might as well uninstall right now.

[McBrutal]

They really don't need this. What would be great is a 3rd person screen shot. I would love to grab a quick action shot of me blowing the head off another mech.

3rd person fighting would be an unfair advantage over those not able to fast look right or left to see who's smashing on your flank.

[Vengeance1]

DirePhoenix, on 02 December 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

In my own solution, I describe a 3rd-person non-combat view.

What this means is that when using this view, players can NOT:

• Fire weapons
  
• Target enemies
  
  • Which means they can also not relay targeting data to their teammates
• Use the HUD
  
  • This is just a camera view. No HUD means no status displays, no target info, no target brackets or indicators, no minimap, no crosshairs
• Change their 'mech's facing, direction, or velocity.
  
  • Throttles are locked while in this view (if you were moving forward when you hopped out of the cockpit you keep moving forward), and you can't pilot your 'mech until you hop back into your cockpit.

However, players CAN view their 'mechs from an external view, which means:

• New/confused players can see their 'mech in relation to their surroundings to get their bearings on which way their 'mechs are facing
  
• Players can take sweet screenshots of their heavy metal death machines on the battlefield
  
• Also, this view is zoom-locked so that the player's 'mech takes up most of the screen

I believe this will provide a solution for the issues that have been brought up with only having the view being locked into first person cockpit view, while not segregating and splitting the playerbase, and not providing a tactical edge* while using the 3rd person camera.

I think this is an extremely well thought out idea. It takes care of the issue of combat 3rd person PoV. However, I would add one small thing. If a player is 'outside' of their mech, make it so that there is an indicator above the mech that EVERYONE can see (As long as they would normally be able to see the mech with current LOS rules, etc.) so that the guy in his hunchback or atlas or whatever can't hide behind a building, pop into 3rd person to look around and then pop back into 1st person without everyone knowing the guy has no control over his weapons, speed, orientation, etc. I know there are probably some flaws to this idea, but it's all I have for now.

[DaRep]

If it hasn't been said already, to counter the ridiculous notion that people need 3rd person in order to see how their mech is oriented - just give them an animated wireframe (or full rendering) of their mech in the HUD showing what they currently look like from a heading/bearing perspective (locked to bearing), with no other geographical view or otherwise. Allow the user to turn that on or off.

There, you can see your mech at all times to make sure you know which way you're going.

Next fabricated excuse for this tremendously bad idea?

[Sean von Steinike]

I want to spend more money on this game but refuse to do so because they might put in this craptard 3rd person BS. I never would have bought a Founders pack, or played at all if craptarded 3rd person was part of the game to begin with and we were pretty much promised that there would not be any catering to this 3rd person play.

[Phatel]

CyBerkut, on 02 December 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

So, now Russ has done a second podcast appearance, and the case for considering an implementation of a 3rd person view is being laid more upon drawing in more players who flat out prefer 3PV. [Thanks, Russ... that came across as a good bit more credible / well-reasoned.] He also seemed to be pretty open to segregating 3PV play via the match making system.

If 3PV play is to be made available, then segregating it via the match making system seems to be a reasonably viable option. I'm not overly concerned about splitting the player base, as in theory it should increase the player base size overall. I don't think we'll lose all that many out of the 1PV side of things, and if it manages to bring in significant additional $$$ for PGI while not screwing up 1PV play... that sounds like a good thing (in and of itself).

I'll note that I didn't hear what they would do with the upcoming Community Warfare, if this gets implemented. Would they run parallel Communities? It would seem that they would have to, in order to avoid the 1PV vs 3PV teams battling for the same planet scenario.

If they implement segregation via the match maker, and also in Community Warfare, then the remaining concern would be the client getting hacked to make the 3PV available to someone in a 1PV only match. That is not a trivial concern in my view, and pointing out that other things can be done (ie. making mechs appear to glow, or putting floating billboards over them) doesn't really negate that. If 3PV mechanics are programmed into the client, it makes it easier to exploit. Reality is however, there is already stuff going on that needs to be addressed (ie. an autoaim bot). It looks like some kind of punkbuster-like solution needs to be added in, sadly.

They can't get MM right to save their life. This is the 5th pass I think with MM and the 3rd complete rewrite of how it's going to be. The fact they are trying to appease the public by saying it will be segregated inside a system they have failed to introduce given their current track record of success at adding things on time and trouble free? Why don't you just stop and see they are just gonna do what they want and if you happen to at some point be able to drop without people using both systems. Well, even a blind squirrell finds a nut once in awhile.

[Phatel]

I have pretty much reached a point with this game where no matter how much I love mechwarrior. They are just ruining my experiance. Mechwarrior only gets you so far. There is no content, a handfull of mechs, a brutal grind without bonuses, no matchmaking, crappy interface, missing components, bots, hackers, cheats, very poor testing done prior to patch and for all intents and purposes this is live. Sure you can call it beta but that is just buttor they put on the failtoast so you don't complain about how bad it is. There is no product being shipped, there is nothing being turned on, there is not testing being done, no balance tweeks being made. All that (what little there was) ended with closed beta.

PGI is quickly looking like a group of guys in a garage writing code to their fav game. They will promise you the world but they blow thru money like crazy with little to show for it. At current pace I would expect to see community warfare sometime 2014 and I bet it's nothing like what people think, it will be some washed out, half implemented system so they can say something is in the game. They have till the end of the year to impress me or most likely I and a good chunck of the players I group with will just play something else. They don't care about what the community wants, they are trying to get as much cash as they can from as many as they can before this thing burns down. The building is on fire and they are still trying to rent out rooms.

[CPT Ebaneezer]

Garth Erlam, on 16 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

Over the course of development, we’ve had a huge number of requests for a 3^rd person camera option. At this early stage, it’s something we feel that warrants further analysis, understanding and exploration.

MechWarrior Online is, and will always be, a game focused on 1st person combat in Mechs. That experience is sacrosanct to the classic Mechwarrior experience.

If we find that there is a relevant role for an optional 3^rd person camera mode, then then would simply be an additional option

So for those of you who think he said "nothing" please look at what I have put in BOLD. Obviously the 3rd person view would completely take away from the gaming experience as it is a "Mech Combat Simulator". For those of us (myself included) who do not want 3rd person, do not worry for there is NO relevence for a 3rd person camera. When you are the Pilot. Even so, the only time you should have an out of body experience is when your cockpit has folded inward.

And the people who want 3rd person, go play Gears of War.

[POWR]

Say no to 3rd person view.

[POWR]

Phatel, on 03 December 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

There is no content, a handfull of mechs, a brutal grind without bonuses, no matchmaking, crappy interface, missing components, bots, hackers, cheats, very poor testing done prior to patch and for all intents and purposes this is live. Sure you can call it beta but that is just buttor they put on the failtoast so you don't complain about how bad it is. There is no product being shipped, there is nothing being turned on, there is not testing being done, no balance tweeks being made. All that (what little there was) ended with closed beta.

Uhm, you realise that YOU are the tester, right? A beta is for TESTING and you're complaining that you're testing... how does this make sense to you? "But I can spend money on it!" Yea, and you can go over to Kickstarter and buy a game that might come out in 2 years or log on steam and prepurchase a game that won't be out for another 6 months. Sure, we can argue endlessly about the ethics in such procedings, but that doesn't take away from the fact that this is a beta, and that you're here, signed up to test the game, a game which is still quite free. You cannot argue that "but it's beta" is a bad argument when this is very obviously a proper beta. Not like those "oh hey, join our beta 1 month before launch of our product that's been in development for 3 years" betas you might be used to.

So, I guess you should just go away and come back when the game's launched. You might lose less sleep that way, pop fewer veins. Relax more. You're obviously not cut out to stand the patience that a beta test requires. So, save yourself the headache, leave, and come back when it launches Have fun in the meantime!

[nonplusultra]

No for 3rd person. Its not realistic and there are many other things to do first!

[ODoyle Rulez]

I just want to say in the most blunt of terms. No.

If a 3rd person mode is enabled it will affect everyone. The absolute only way it will not is if it is divided off into its own game mode. READ: Make a casual mode for those who want to play like that. Do not force it on the main player base. This is the only option to prevent it from affecting us.

I am all for you guys expanding your market and all that. Just do not mess with the simulation people who have been supporting this the entire time. Keep it separate from us.

That is all.

P.S. How about we get the crash to desktops, FPS bug, more mechs, grind problem, etc stuff worked out before we start trying to cater to the 3DP people? Just an idea of course.

Edited by ODoyle Rulez, 03 December 2012 - 12:07 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

@direphoenix

Quote

Maybe it's because of my mechanical engineering background, and more recently as a programmer, but I prefer coming up with solutions rather than stomping my foot on the ground and refusing change (and being that I'm not the one making this game, surely that stance would be meaningless no matter what decision they make).

Oh great, an engineer.......


A pastor, a doctor and an engineer were waiting one morning for a particularly slow group of golfers. The engineer fumed, "What's with these guys? We must have been waiting for 15 minutes!" The doctor chimed in, "I don't know, but I've never seen such ineptitude!" The pastor said, "Hey, here comes the greens keeper. Let's have a word with him."
"Hi, George. Say, what's with that group ahead of us? They're rather slow, aren't they?" The greens keeper replied, "Oh, yes, that's a group of blind firefighters who lost their sight saving our clubhouse from a fire last year, so we always let them play for free anytime."
The group was silent for a moment. The pastor said, "That's so sad. I think I will say a special prayer for them tonight."
The doctor said, "Good idea. And I'm going to contact my ophthalmologist buddy and see if there's anything he can do for them."
The engineer said, "Why can't these guys play at night?"


However, this one is most appropriate:


"Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet."
(Scott Adams, The Dilbert Principle)

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 03 December 2012 - 03:06 PM.

[FroBanger]

OK so if we get 3rd person view. We have mechs that can SEE 360 degree's so I can see a jenner standing behind me shooting me with 3rd person view well depending on how far back you zoom but my radar cannot detect them standing behind me with a module. Doesnt that seem a bit odd?

Why can a mech not radar detect a mech behind it but this new 360 view somehow mechs shoot out cockpits somewhere above the actual mech astrally projecting themselfs to allow 3rd person view?

3rd person view is rediculous ok sure they could have cameras mounded on tethers that floated behind the mechs allowing them to get a "3rd person view" but if they have that sort of technology why dont we haev 360 degree radar? Do not put in 3rd person view its juts WEIRD

[GarretSidzaka]

GREAT WAY TO RUIN A PROMISING GAME.

DONT GIVE INTO THE POPTARTING TRASH THAT RUINED MECHWARRIOR IN THE FIRST PLACE, NOOB DEVS