2926 replies to this topic

[Suskis]

3d person view is already ruining the 1st person feel when you die now. the startup sequence was a nice touch to help player feel they are inside a mech's head. so, no, we don't need any 3D person view (not even in death sequence).
as I suggested before, the only "3RD person view" should be an ejection system that automatically starts when your mech is destroyed (so that, in facts, it's still a 1st person view, but from pilot's perspective and not from mech's one)

[guardian wolf]

Well, I'm glad we're still flame warring over here, I just got the Clan hate thread to calm down... can we actually have a debate here? That means no arguing (I'm right, your wrong cause I'm right, blah blah blah), and we actually use ideas, thoughts, and logic to have a good back and forth.

[CutterWolf]

This is the big issue, "if" or when 3PV comings into this game it will open it up to be hacked. It does not matter how PGI puts it into the game it will get hacked to be used in games where its only suppose to be 1PV. This is the reason so many of us do not wanted it at all period. In every single game where you had the option of 1PV or 3PV everyone use only 3PV and in those games where they made servers or game types that would only let you use 1PV it "ALWAYS" got hacked to allow 3PV and the very same will happen here.

[Holden Aces]

guardian wolf, on 02 April 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Well, I'm glad we're still flame warring over here, I just got the Clan hate thread to calm down... can we actually have a debate here? That means no arguing (I'm right, your wrong cause I'm right, blah blah blah), and we actually use ideas, thoughts, and logic to have a good back and forth.

I believe there are quite a few folks on here that have stated a logical argument AGAINST the implementation of 3PV: it can be used as a situational awareness exploit that gives those using it a better view of the battlefield without having to expose themselves from cover. While I respect any "logically founded" counterpoint to this argument, it will be game-altering even if one's intent is to only use it for "good". Echoing what CutterWolf said, even if it is only enabled for replays, death cams, or training, it will be exploited in matches through hacks. Though theoretically possible, I haven't seen a bullet-proof anti-cheat system to date.

[CyBerkut]

guardian wolf, on 02 April 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Well, I'm glad we're still flame warring over here, I just got the Clan hate thread to calm down... can we actually have a debate here? That means no arguing (I'm right, your wrong cause I'm right, blah blah blah), and we actually use ideas, thoughts, and logic to have a good back and forth.

"Debate" is synonymous to "argue".

You can only be assured of controlling what you post. Others will post as they see fit. There are a number of us that offer well reasoned arguments, and refrain from flaming others.

If you wish to see good debate, then by all means make your arguments. Plenty have already been offered in this thread, and you are free to add yours.

[HarmAssassin]

Let me put this simply - if you put 3rd person view in the game, I'm gone.

3rd person view has no place in a sim or 1st person shooter, and gives a HUGE advantage in vision.

Absolutely, positively NO 3rd person view!!!

[Hellgardia]

Balance-wise i am also agaisnt a 3rd person view...

[Dein Idol]

A third person view without HUD would be more than OK.

In that case you can have a look on your camo from time to time or make some fancy screenshots. Or is there a way to do it today when still alive?

[Rejarial Galatan]

Duppie1974, on 25 March 2013 - 11:55 PM, said:

There will be optional modes for now, until they realize that the split of the community is not healthy after all, they will then merge the lines to one. And we all will be forced to either use it or play against people who uses it.

they just do not care, PGI that is.

the ONLY way a third person view would work is this: go to third person view and it shuts down all internal game chat ability, all IFF data < no way to tell friend from foe AT ALL> and locks down and removes all fire control capability. beyond that, it is NOT healthy for this game.

[guardian wolf]

CyBerkut, on 02 April 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

"Debate" is synonymous to "argue".

You can only be assured of controlling what you post. Others will post as they see fit. There are a number of us that offer well reasoned arguments, and refrain from flaming others.

If you wish to see good debate, then by all means make your arguments. Plenty have already been offered in this thread, and you are free to add yours.

Then I am not communicating the terms correctly, as I believe when two people are arguing, one is trying to completely destroy the other, and nothing is actually being gained in the argument. When two people are debating however, I believe that people are exchanging ideas, giving points and counterpoints, and in the end we all leave a little more informed about the issue. Arguments happen due to, and are fueled by emotion, and I believe that debates happen due to, and are fueled by, the wish to know why a certain person thinks that way, or intellectual curiosity.

[CyBerkut]

guardian wolf, on 03 April 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

Then I am not communicating the terms correctly, as I believe when two people are arguing, one is trying to completely destroy the other, and nothing is actually being gained in the argument. When two people are debating however, I believe that people are exchanging ideas, giving points and counterpoints, and in the end we all leave a little more informed about the issue. Arguments happen due to, and are fueled by emotion, and I believe that debates happen due to, and are fueled by, the wish to know why a certain person thinks that way, or intellectual curiosity.

You can believe whatever you want, but the terms remain synonymous.

http://dictionary.re...m/browse/debate

http://dictionary.re...om/browse/argue

Both terms have multiple meanings. They can include, but are not limited to hostility.

Having dispensed with that... Do you have any points / ideas on the thread's subject that you wanted to contribute to the conversation?

[Adept2]

World of Tanks combines a 3rd person view with a zoomed in 1st person view. The play experience is very smooth, and you have a good sense of what is happening around you, and behind you. In comparison we in MWO are really blind. This is made worse by the fact that unless you get a premium module, you won't even see anything on the minimap when an enemy mech is right behind you.

Fighting the mech needs to be intuitive and fun, not made deliberately harder than it needs to be. Mouse wheel zoom would be a good first step, and the at least the minimap showing mechs that are behind you. 3rd person mode could well work just fine.

[Kyynele]

Dein Idol, on 03 April 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:

A third person view without HUD would be more than OK.

In that case you can have a look on your camo from time to time or make some fancy screenshots. Or is there a way to do it today when still alive?

Even that will allow magically peeking around corners or over hills without exposing yourself, which is the part that people fear will break the game.

[CyBerkut]

Adept2, on 03 April 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

World of Tanks combines a 3rd person view with a zoomed in 1st person view. The play experience is very smooth, and you have a good sense of what is happening around you, and behind you. In comparison we in MWO are really blind. This is made worse by the fact that unless you get a premium module, you won't even see anything on the minimap when an enemy mech is right behind you.

Fighting the mech needs to be intuitive and fun, not made deliberately harder than it needs to be. Mouse wheel zoom would be a good first step, and the at least the minimap showing mechs that are behind you. 3rd person mode could well work just fine.

While many of us miss the 360 degree radar of earlier MechWarrior incarnations, the lack of it in MWO is part of how PGI implements their Role Warfare pillar. Making big mechs susceptible to attack from behind by smaller (scout) mechs, etc. helps to keep the small mech relevant, and avoid the 'race to acquiring/driving Assault mechs' common in those earlier MWs.

As for "fun"... that is a subjective thing that views vary upon. Many are not looking for it to be super easy / intuitive. For many folks, having to master the challenge of compensating for the limited view is part of what should be in a pilot's acquired skill set. Developing the habit of visually scanning around is part of what should be done, in some people's opinion.

A mouse wheel zoom would be good, and welcomed by many. It would not impart any unfair advantages, or allow pilots to see things without exposing their mechs to hostile fire. 3PV on the other hand, allows pilots to look around corners, and over hills/buildings without exposing their mechs to the enemy. That would be a capability that should not be in the competitive PvP game... or if it is, it should be segregated to 3PV only drops, 3PV only EOL and 3PV only Community Warfare.

[pow pow]

I would like to see a 3rd person view toggle, but if (as many people here argue) it will destroy gameplay, what if you make it so that you have no HUD or overlays while in 3rd person view? In a sense make it so you can just about see your mech walking along the map...

Also, it really is painful that there is no rear view (mirror/camera?) i mean cmon, my car in 2009 had a rear view camera for reversing/parking, how can it not exist in the battletech universe? any vehicle over couple of tons, so far in the future should have some sort of rear view if not omni-view system! The way it is now makes absolutlely no sense!!!!

It will also be very cool if you can have free look (toggle) coming from the pilot's head (seperate from the torso / arm movement) and perhaps hook it up with some trackir software. This will also make visibility (cockpit position in the mech) an asset in some mechs and a hindrance to others. (I am thinking war thunder and full real-battle mode, where there is no 3rd person view, but you can free-look around the windows in your cockpit)

[Cold Macaroni]

pow pow, on 04 April 2013 - 12:34 AM, said:

I would like to see a 3rd person view toggle, but if (as many people here argue) it will destroy gameplay, what if you make it so that you have no HUD or overlays while in 3rd person view? In a sense make it so you can just about see your mech walking along the map...

Well, you still have a perspective advantage. You can view the map from an angle that might allow you to see what's around a corner or over a hill before you would otherwise. You also gain a wider field of vision. This will give you an advantage over pilots who use cover to ambush, feint or bait and switch. This removes or neuters a certain type of close-combat (which is so much fun) and shifts close combat toward the arms-race brawl-fest nd of the spectrum. I suppose you could make the argument for seperate 1PV and 3PV game modes and lobbies, but why split the player base?

Quote

Also, it really is painful that there is no rear view (mirror/camera?) i mean cmon, my car in 2009 had a rear view camera for reversing/parking, how can it not exist in the battletech universe? any vehicle over couple of tons, so far in the future should have some sort of rear view if not omni-view system! The way it is now makes absolutlely no sense!!!!

I don't think this would be as bad, but it still impacts some of the gameplay elements above. Whether or not it's plausible within the game universe is completely irrelevant.

Quote

It will also be very cool if you can have free look (toggle) coming from the pilot's head (seperate from the torso / arm movement) and perhaps hook it up with some trackir software. This will also make visibility (cockpit position in the mech) an asset in some mechs and a hindrance to others. (I am thinking war thunder and full real-battle mode, where there is no 3rd person view, but you can free-look around the windows in your cockpit)

Dude you can!!! I think holding LCtrl let's you free-look with the mouse. I like the idea of some cockpits being more tactically useful than others.

[pow pow]

Cold Macaroni, on 04 April 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

Well, you still have a perspective advantage. You can view the map from an angle that might allow you to see what's around a corner or over a hill before you would otherwise. You also gain a wider field of vision. This will give you an advantage over pilots who use cover to ambush, feint or bait and switch. This removes or neuters a certain type of close-combat (which is so much fun) and shifts close combat toward the arms-race brawl-fest nd of the spectrum. I suppose you could make the argument for seperate 1PV and 3PV game modes and lobbies, but why split the player base?

Yes, that's the strongest defense against 3rd person. It will diminish the ambush / baiting and and some hit and run tactics. All in all, it will definitely favor the heavier bulkier mechs in contrast to lighter more mobile mechs (the latter tend to use most of the above mentioned tactics and have a clear advantage on how fast they can check their surroundings)

the thing is though, if I truly had to drive a 50 ton mech around, and could only check the view outside from the glass in my cockpit, first thing I 'd do would be to go buy and install a diy camera kit !

also with your argument, you are implying that you can't ambush or bait in other 3rd person shooters.

Don't get me wrong, i m 99% short range. my favorite drives are a brawler ddc and a dual ac20 cat

[SoulROM]

CyBerkut, on 03 April 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

While many of us miss the 360 degree radar of earlier MechWarrior incarnations, the lack of it in MWO is part of how PGI implements their Role Warfare pillar. Making big mechs susceptible to attack from behind by smaller (scout) mechs, etc. helps to keep the small mech relevant, and avoid the 'race to acquiring/driving Assault mechs' common in those earlier MWs.

As for "fun"... that is a subjective thing that views vary upon. Many are not looking for it to be super easy / intuitive. For many folks, having to master the challenge of compensating for the limited view is part of what should be in a pilot's acquired skill set. Developing the habit of visually scanning around is part of what should be done, in some people's opinion.

A mouse wheel zoom would be good, and welcomed by many. It would not impart any unfair advantages, or allow pilots to see things without exposing their mechs to hostile fire. 3PV on the other hand, allows pilots to look around corners, and over hills/buildings without exposing their mechs to the enemy. That would be a capability that should not be in the competitive PvP game... or if it is, it should be segregated to 3PV only drops, 3PV only EOL and 3PV only Community Warfare.

Guys and Gals,

Simulation is the act of simulating. This is a sim of a pilot or driver that wants the feel of being inside a mech. If you want to see the world around you, then play a game of which it is intended (again tomb raider, etc). This is not a complaint. This is a statement. Others share my POV which is INSIDE the cockpit of our mechs!

If you want to see outside of you, then let PGI implement a type of drone camera that launches for 1 minute or so or until destroyed so that you can get a pretty picture for your FB page. Do not make it a playable option as it will ruin the simulation....and before you flame this reply, I precede what I just said with IMHO.

[DrSmurfy]

I could maybe see a 3rd person view in a Spectating perspective? I'd love to see more possibilities in spectating once dead, Or check out there cabin?

[Vedic]

DrSmurfy, on 08 April 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

I could maybe see a 3rd person view in a Spectating perspective? I'd love to see more possibilities in spectating once dead, Or check out there cabin?

Then you have problems of "ghosting" or lookouts giving advice over Vent. People will exploit it, and that's why we can't have nice things.

I wonder if they could enable it during Training Grounds, and then also for the unranked scrimmage matches they've mentioned incorporating in the future. That way people can have their spectator/3rd person mode for practice and for "cinematic" highlight reels with friends, but it won't affect actual ranked gameplay. This idea has probably been suggested a million times, but it gets my vote.