28 replies to this topic

[ovan20]

So, i was watching some of the gameplay videos, and i also read about the catapult mech, and i find to be very interesting a mech thats a movible artillery, but the gameplay videos only show the battle in close range, so...

How much distance a artillery can stay from the front line, it can lock on a target that a scout spoted? theres ballistic and missiles artillerys? artillery that uses missiles, would have guided missiles?

Iam asking this, because iam new to the mechwarrior games, and i dont know if in any of them you could play as artillery.

[Monky]

In mechwarrior, there are 3 types of 'weapons' in general.

Ballistic - these are like tank cannons and require line of sight, you have to see the enemy and have them in range of your weapon.

Missile - Missiles are basically split into 'long range missle' (LRM) and 'short range missile' (SRM). LRM's are capable of indirect fire, ie; shooting over a hill to a target your scout spotted. SRM's, generally, are not. They are like ballistics, but have the ability to lock so they can be more accurate.

Energy - function like ballistic - have to see the target and be in range - but instead of using ammo, they cause your mech to generate heat, which can shut down your mech if it gets too high.

So essentially, mechs like the Catapult can function like a support artillery unit with their LRM launchers, however it does also have 4 medium lasers if it needs to duke it out face to face.

[ovan20]

Now, the long range missles, you can lock them on the target, or you need to shoot a few seconds early for the shoot hit the spot on the right time?

Edited by ovan20, 27 April 2012 - 07:16 PM.

[Monky]

Any of the missles barring a specific type of SRM (Streak, which requires a lock to fire) as far as I know can be fired straight at a target without a lock, but if you want the missiles to track the target, you have to wait for a lock. Whether or not arcing an unlocked shot over a hill will be able to do anything worthwhile in MWO is too early to say - but my bet is on no, not likely.

[Morashtak]

There's another thread that discusses lock-on as well as has a poll asking what one would like to see. Nothing official but should have a few more details for you.

Edit; and more in a Dev Blog

Quote

If allies can feed their teammates targeting information - does that mean that firesupport mechs (ala the Catapult) can receive LRM locks from allies as well? Will that require a module? –Listless Nomad

[DAVID] You can receive the targeting information from an ally but you can’t instantly receive a standard missile lock from them as well. You can, however, acquire a missile lock normally on any enemy that’s targeted by an ally simply by aiming at them yourself (even if there are obstacles in the way). Though I should add that the exact workings of equipment like Narc beacons, which essentially create missile locks, are still be designed and they may provide exceptions to that rule.

Edit again: and here under Targeting;

Quote

In addition to the targeting information system, the player can establish missile locks on enemy ’Mechs, if his own ’Mech is equipped with any guided missile systems. The player establishes a missile lock by pointing his reticle at an enemy ’Mech for the required time to lock. The missile lock will last until the player’s reticle leaves the enemy ’Mech for too long. Any homing capable missiles fired while a lock has been established, will home in on the targeted enemy.

Again, does not state how long one needs to stay on target to acquire lock or if either type will be fire-and-forget.

Edited by Morashtak, 28 April 2012 - 06:04 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

As far as the actual ranges, the Developers have stated (in Q&A 05; see here) that the "long" range from the BattleTech table top game (see here for a list of weapon and equipment stats) would represent the weapons' "maximum effective range" in MWO.

The ranges on the Weapons and Equipment Lists linked above are in units of hexes (a hexagonal area on the TT game's playing board), where 1 hex equates to an area that is 30 meters wide.
So, to get the weapons' max. effective ranges in meters, multiply the ranges in the lists by 30.

The Developers did also state that they would be implementing the minimum ranges for some weapons (ex. PPCs and missiles) but not for others (ex. AC-2 and AC-5), where it seems sensible.

Also of note is that the Devs listed missiles and artillery separately under "projectile weapons" with ACs, Gauss Rifles, and MGs being listed under "ballistic weapons" (in Dev Blog 05; see here).
Could that mean that we'd have access to actual 'Mech-mounted artillery weapons (Arrow IV Missile Artillery System, Long Tom Cannon (not to be confused with the Long Tom Artillery Piece), Sniper Artillery Cannon (not to be confused with the Sniper Artillery Piece), and Thumper Cannon (not to be confused with the Thumper Artillery Piece))?
Would the Arrow IV have its canon maximum range of ~4200 meters (canon Arrow IV range is 8 mapsheets, each mapsheet is 17.5 hexes long, 1 hex = 30 meters)?

[BoxOfAids]

Strum Wealh, on 28 April 2012 - 06:00 AM, said:

Would the Arrow IV have its canon maximum range of ~4200 meters (canon Arrow IV range is 8 mapsheets, each mapsheet is 17.5 hexes long, 1 hex = 30 meters)?

MW:LL did it, why not MWO?

Edited by boxofaids, 28 April 2012 - 07:16 AM.

[Nick Makiaveli]

The idea bouncing around in my head is base range, lock on times etc that are modified by the specifics. IE start with a mech targets an enemy, relays it to the commander who passes it along. Standard range, accuracy etc. Modified by both the scout and the commander's skills, modules, mech efficiency etc. This would give more boosts to say scout mechs scouting, ie the chassis has unlocks that benefit scouting, as opposed to saying my Victor has jumpjets, of course I can scout.

[Aelos03]

so anyone know will there be Beyond visual targeting module or something so not all mech are capable of it ?

[Nick Makiaveli]

Aelos03, on 28 April 2012 - 07:35 AM, said:

so anyone know will there be Beyond visual targeting module or something so not all mech are capable of it ?

If I understand the question, any mech mounting LRMs that gets targeting info relayed to it can launch indirectly. But it requires, if I remember correctly, a mech to target the enemy, and a commander to relay the targeting info.

[ovan20]

Morashtak, on 28 April 2012 - 05:48 AM, said:

If allies can feed their teammates targeting information - does that mean that firesupport mechs (ala the Catapult) can receive LRM locks from allies as well? Will that require a module? –Listless Nomad

[DAVID] You can receive the targeting information from an ally but you can’t instantly receive a standard missile lock from them as well. You can, however, acquire a missile lock normally on any enemy that’s targeted by an ally simply by aiming at them yourself (even if there are obstacles in the way). Though I should add that the exact workings of equipment like Narc beacons, which essentially create missile locks, are still be designed and they may provide exceptions to that rule.

From what i understand, and correct me if iam wrong, the artillery can get a lock on enemie far from it, but only if it has a ally aiming at the target, and in radio range to pass the information. So the ally on the front would work as a laser targeting for the air stryke.

[Monky]

Seems about the jist of it, yes.

One thing to take into account though is wether the target has an anti-missile system, which can reduce the effectiveness of your barrage - so if you're short on ammo you might want to be choosy for your targets.

[Aelos03]

Nick Makiaveli, on 28 April 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

If I understand the question, any mech mounting LRMs that gets targeting info relayed to it can launch indirectly. But it requires, if I remember correctly, a mech to target the enemy, and a commander to relay the targeting info.

I'm wondering will e.g catapult be able to that on its own and some other mech that is not specialized in long range cant.

[Strum Wealh]

boxofaids, on 28 April 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

MW:LL did it, why not MWO?

While neither of us might take issue with it having its canon range, it would grant the Arrow IV nearly 4X the range of any other 'Mech-mounted weapon (including the other arty weapons), in addition to it being guided (albeit with the help of a forward observer with either Narc or TAG units) AoE weapons and (canonically) immune to AMS.

It also brings into question related elements like sensor and communication ranges (which should seemingly be (canonically) on the order of about two kilometers (rather than the one kilometer typically used in previous MW titles), given the descriptions of the "Short-Range Sensor Sweep" (CBT Companion, pg. 237) and the "Standard Jamming Gear" (CBT Companion, pg. 239)) and how that, in turn, actually ties in with advanced equipment like BAP, GECM, C3, TAG, and so on.

Moreover, there is the question of how well such systems can be used without the support units - will Arrow IV missiles be semi-guided, like LRMs (with the fact that LRMs are semi-guided being disclosed in the FAQ)? Can the artillery cannons (Long Toms, Snipers, and Thumpers) be fired directly as well as indirectly? Should/will the artillery cannons have their minimum ranges included in MWO?

[Monky]

Aelos03, on 28 April 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

I'm wondering will e.g catapult be able to that on its own and some other mech that is not specialized in long range cant.

Generally, a weapon system defines the mech's capability, not the other way around. If you have a Catapult with LRM's and an Atlas with LRM's, they can generally perform the same role. Other things are different, like how many slots of ballistic, missile, energy weapons they have, how fast they can move, wether or not they can equip jump jets so that they can jump straight over terrain and into/out of cover, how much armor and ammo they can carry etc but an LRM is an LRM is an LRM.

One slight exception to that is Artimis IV equipment, which helps boost accuracy of missiles. It's not clear how 'special equipment' like this is handled and wether or not any mech or just certain mechs can use equipment (i'd say Narc beacons and anti missile systems are similarly vague at this point). Those things will help determine whether or not it's a free for all or wether a certain mech will be best suited for a certain role. So I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Edited by monky, 28 April 2012 - 10:03 AM.

[Aelos03]

monky, on 28 April 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

Generally, a weapon system defines the mech's capability, not the other way around. If you have a Catapult with LRM's and an Atlas with LRM's, they can generally perform the same role. Other things are different, like how many slots of ballistic, missile, energy weapons they have, how fast they can move, wether or not they can equip jump jets so that they can jump straight over terrain and into/out of cover, how much armor and ammo they can carry etc but an LRM is an LRM is an LRM.

One slight exception to that is Artimis IV equipment, which helps boost accuracy of missiles. It's not clear how 'special equipment' like this is handled and wether or not any mech or just certain mechs can use equipment (i'd say Narc beacons and anti missile systems are similarly vague at this point). Those things will help determine whether or not it's a free for all or wether a certain mech will be best suited for a certain role. So I guess we'll have to wait and see.

i know but if i remember well some mech could equip beyond visual targeting system and some cant.

[Monky]

We don't have any details about mech specific equipment at this point, 'we will have to wait and see'

[Aelos03]

monky, on 28 April 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

We don't have any details about mech specific equipment at this point, 'we will have to wait and see'

i know but i would love to see that in game.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Yeah, Catapult with a Raven Narcing things, I can imagine that can work as artillery support just fine. Or else a series of C3I computers all linked in together. I kinda want a Catty just to do that, rain hell from 1200+ meters, oh yes!

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 28 April 2012 - 10:37 AM.

[Orzorn]

Strum Wealh, on 28 April 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

Moreover, there is the question of how well such systems can be used without the support units - will Arrow IV missiles be semi-guided, like LRMs (with the fact that LRMs are semi-guided being disclosed in the FAQ)?

You know, that is interesting. I suppose that means that LRMs will not lock on normally. You just point and shoot. They'll try to alter their flight path a bit, but they won't really strain to hit the target. It seems to me that, most likely because ALL other Mechwarrior games have had normal LRMs require locks, people have assumed MWO LRMs will be able to lock on as well. I think that sort of behavior is now only available to Artemis equipped systems.

I like it. Previous titles, and MWLL, have a tendency to become LRM camping matches. Now we'll be forced to have forward spotters if we want to do anything more than dumbfire all the time.

Edited by Orzorn, 28 April 2012 - 10:50 AM.