112 replies to this topic

[UraniumOverdose]

Stop crying about the K2 and aim for it's massive head and kill it. Good lord the tears on this forum could match the 2004 Tsunami for flood related deaths.

[Zoom2136]

These mods are not needed... just adapt to the Mech your are engaging.

If you go and charge head first into a fight then you desere what coming.

Edited by Zoom2136, 18 November 2012 - 09:42 AM.

[Koji Takeimura]

The problem is not dual gauss, the problem is the ease of hitting the head on a lot of mechs. Trust me, a dual gauss cat against something like an Atlas on a straight up fight will likely lose. A gauss cat against another cat or awesome will likely win because of how easy it is to hit the head on those two mechs. The only real solution would be to make the head more difficult to hit so that it can't be a one hit kill with dual gauss or dual AC 20.

Edited by Koji Takeimura, 18 November 2012 - 12:42 PM.

[Koningswulf]

Darwins Dog, on 17 November 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

Best solution I've heard is to move the ballistic hardpoints to the center torso.

I like the idea of moving the two ballistic hardpoint of the Catapult K2 to the Central torso.
That way they could at best mount one AC-2 or as it should be two MG.
I really hope the Dev use this idea.

[Steel Talon]

Heavy weapons in MG slot.
Ballancing it by nerfing weapons is worse than not doing anything at all!

Edited by Steel Talon, 18 November 2012 - 04:02 PM.

[Scrawny Cowboy]

Koningswulf, on 18 November 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

I like the idea of moving the two ballistic hardpoint of the Catapult K2 to the Central torso. That way they could at best mount one AC-2 or as it should be two MG. I really hope the Dev use this idea.

The idea had been floating around in the closed beta forums all summer, but it was never adjusted.

To be honest, I feel both ways on the gauss-pults. Their current hitbox on the cockpit is an easy bulls-eye. Even if you don't hit that window, you have good chance of hitting the torsos which still helps you in taking down the mech. And how often do you see a fast moving gauss-pult? Only ones that I've seen so far that move around quick enough to be an edge over heavier mechs run out of ammo fairly quick. In my opinion, the fight is only in their favor if you play their fight.

Unless they have a great shot, then anything can go hehe.

Edit- Spelling

Edited by B3RZ3RK3R, 18 November 2012 - 04:32 PM.

[Demoned]

well true these cat builds are strong but i wouldn't call them OP,
after all the cat needs something to balance it out.
the cat goes down very fast just aim at the cockpit, its not hard to miss XD

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

I enjoy my AC20 Cat.

But when using a single AC20, the biggest issue is the velocity of the round. Its painfully slow.

Edited by mwhighlander, 18 November 2012 - 05:11 PM.

[Budor]

The only issue with gauss/ac20 cats atm is that they are not affected much by the bugged weapon convergence like all other mechs. Once this gets sorted out they will get hurt much faster by other ballistic wielding mechs that have more armor or are much faster/agile.

Edited by Budor, 18 November 2012 - 05:21 PM.

[Strig]

I play all of the Cats and I have a Gausscat and a Streakapult (although I prefer my Laser-C1). I think they are both overpowered.

Arguments like this are what you usually get and are totally invalid.

Madidus, on 18 November 2012 - 04:30 AM, said:

It's a one trick pony, though it does that trick extremely well... In the right hands it can be extremely deadly at picking off damaged or stationary mechs. Once you get past the OMGWTFPWN! front-loaded damage, an organized group can tear one down pretty damn fast. The huge target on the nose that is the cockpit doesn't help much either. I don't mind the idea of moving the ballistic hardpoints to the center torso, but I feel that would cripple the K2 in a lot of ways. Perhaps moving the ballistic hardpoint to the center torso and adding 2 additional energy hardpoints (1 to left torso, 1 to right torso).

Sure 2-vs-1 or better odds against a Gausscat and they will probablly die .. but the same can be said for any mech ... and I often survived with 2 or more against me (my streakapult can take half a team down pretty easily if they aren't all heavies and assaults).

Sure you can shoot it in the cockpit (again, you can shoot anyone in the cockpit) but very few mechs (like an AC20 cat) can oneshot you.

Calling it a "one-trick pony" implies that there are multiple "tricks" involved in winning a match. THere aren't. There are currently only two, killing or base capture, and these cats can do both and the four listed by the original poster do the one better than almost any other mech.

The saving grace of the SSRM and SRM cats is that they have extremely limited range and you can easily target and destroy their primary (and only) weapon systems ... can't do that to a ballisitc K2.

Move the Ballistic Hardpoints to the arms or the CT.

[DisasterTheory]

So after reading through this thread and being a dual AC20 user I can only assume that most of the QQing is coming from Mw4 players that never stepped into a 4v4 C5 match in Mechwarrior 3. For those of you that never were blessed enough to be able to enjoy such a perfect game let me explain to you how a C5 match would be played.



KILL or be Killed. Out manuver your enemy. Use your envirnment to your advantage.

I never see this with players in MWO... instead I see players willing to stand still.... or run in circles (the circle jerk manuver) and never once attempt to use a cliff, building, or any thing else that would block line of site when facing me in my dual AC20 mech. They just stand there and smile for the AC20-Camera. The ones that do attept to run around.. do so out in the open. All I have to do is line them up and BOOM.... awarded a kill.

In Mechwarrior 4 the cannons were useless vs the "poptarts" with guass and PPC behind hiss and structures. And this is the crowd in this thread that are complaining the most and want the hardpoint restictions changed. So they can have thier lag-jock jenners, Laser boats and LRM catapults rein supreme over everything else..... essentually turning MWO into another MW4:Mercs.

Its not the AC20 catapults that are overpowered..... Its your skill that underpowered.

[UraniumOverdose]

Stupid crybabies need to just leave. No one cares about TT, and whining about realism in a game with 100 foot tall robots is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

[themoob]

People seem to always come up with weird reasons for balancing Gaussapults/AC20apults, when it's in fact so obvious.

When a K2 mounts anything of that size, change the side torso to what the Atlas' RT torso looks like, with that giant ******* gun sticking out of it. Much easier target, makes much more sense, but still a viable build: everyone wins.

[Snoid]

I agree with BLOODREDSINGLE. In this game there are a variety of builds every drop. Not only that, tactics change due to differences in released patches. Jenners are pretty brutal mechs right now. What should I do about it? Evolve my tactics. As has been said already, every mech has it's weakness. It's up to YOU as a pilot to look at your HUD to see what your enemy is packing. If it is a dual AC20 kitty, DON'T GO NEAR IT. If it is a Gauss kitty, FIND COVER. Simple. Well, maybe not...

[Prophet of Entropy]

yea none of the OPs 4 cat varients scare me unless im in a in something smaller then a cat.

in another cat or atlas they arent hard, headshot=boom.

[Kobura]

I'm not even going to state my stance on AC20cats/Gausscats

But I'm going to say

UraniumOverdose, BLOODREDSINGLE, and others (who remarkably are almost all in favor of keeping things as they are)

The level of anger, ignorance, and venom in your statements is to be noted. Why do you bring this to a pleasant community for a game in open Beta when other testers voice their position?

[Vertrucio]

Sorry, but it's still a matter of effectiveness.

People need to stop throwing out really bad arguments where they try to sound like they're better than everyone else.

What we're talking about here is when players of equal skill face each other, both using movement, terrain, and all facets of mech combat to their advantage.

The Catapult variants armed with AC/20s and Gauss in their side torsos have a distinct advantage that is much easier to capitalize on, which is what is making them so much more effective than they should be. Perfect accuracy with a tight grouping, a reasonably consistent shot delay and travel speed, and high damage, it all adds up. Having tried and observed the build being played, it's pretty close to playing a bog standard FPS game, just line up your shots and click the button.

This can be made worse by groups of players running them, something that I've been seeing more and more common. These groups will annihilate equally skilled and cohesive groups, usually by using that accuracy and damage to core even the heaviest of mechs in seconds.

By the time you have lined up a shot, even on the large head of the catapult, your CT armor is stripped away, and his teammate puts two shots in your CT structure, you'll be lucky to to survive that.

Edited by Vertrucio, 18 November 2012 - 06:36 PM.

[Sean von Steinike]

Vertrucio, on 18 November 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

By the time you have lined up a shot, even on the large head of the catapult, your CT armor is stripped away, and his teammate puts two shots in your CT structure, you'll be lucky to to survive that.

And just as often you'll have destroyed most of their cockpit and your team mates will kill it in one or two shots. And no, I don't use a Cat in any incarnation. They are my favorite to hunt though, in all incarnations.

[Vertrucio]

Then you should probably try using a dual X catapult. If you're actually as good as you say, the catapult tends to multiply that effectiveness, which is why there is a balance issue with them.

The problem I have with most replies like yours is that you assume just because you can do X in a few cases, it means that across the board and in every situation, X is fine.

Again, the the situation above, those catapults will still come out on top if you're facing equally skilled players as they will be coring your mechs faster overall and from longer ranges.

I have no doubt you have killed dual catapults the way you describe. In fact, I have also killed them the way you describe. However, that is not the norm when my team faces them.

Edited by Vertrucio, 18 November 2012 - 07:05 PM.

[Sean von Steinike]

Vertrucio, on 18 November 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

Then you should probably try using a dual X catapult. If you're actually as good as you say, the catapult tends to multiply that effectiveness, which is why there is a balance issue with them.

The problem I have with most replies like yours is that you assume just because you can do X in a few cases, it means that across the board and in every situation, X is fine.

Again, the the situation above, those catapults will still come out on top if you're facing equally skilled players as they will be coring your mechs faster overall and from longer ranges.

I have no doubt you have killed dual catapults the way you describe. In fact, I have also killed them the way you describe. However, that is not the norm when my team faces them.

I am NOT good. It's just not that hard to kill them.