112 replies to this topic

[Anuri]

Quote

Best solution I've heard is to move the ballistic hardpoints to the center torso.

Thats a genious fix for k-2, absolutely brilliant! Totally agree

[Gif]

I wouldnt mind seeing them move the hard points to the arms where the PPCs were removed. The whole point PPCs are there is because of space, and a sort of weakness. They are easy targets. Being able to hide your Gauss/AC20 internally in a hard to hit shoulder is a bit off.

Look at the Cataphrac now, yes you can daul Guass, but man those arms get blown off so easily, same with Dragons, Centuriouns etc. Just move them to the outside, done. Problem solved. Way to much theory crafting and so on on slots and ****. Dont over think the situation. The Catapult has way to many strengths that need over coming, torso twist basically 280Degrees, weapons are well protected, well armoured. People act like the K2 is some glass cannon.

I honestly could care less, but the original post did mention and to a point he's right, why is that these two varients are by far the most formidable and scary even in some ****** pilots hands?

[Remnant John]

move the ballistic points up to the arms, where the PPCs are supposed to go, make it so you can have one or the other

[Boris The Spider]

I'm in favour of using a similar system that they are using on the K2s arms, when they change with different armament. Put anything on there bigger than an AC2 or a Medium Laser and the model should change to include a large protruding barrel (later add bigger still for AC20/ERPPC/Gauss?).

This would have three effects, one it would make the side torsos easier to hit (balance?), two it would slightly increase the viability of weapons on the arms (where your PPC's are meant to go ), and three it would look cool (and realisitc?).

Also, set minimum armour value of say, 10 on the arms, if you go bellow that you get the 10 points and the arm model removed all at once, makes sense from your mechanics POV to just do away with the whole section rather than have a flimsy skeleton left there which he is just going to have to repair every time the mech is deployed..... and would also look cooler, with the barrels tucked into the torso.

Apply eventually to all mechs but with priorities set for what are deemed overpowered hardpoint loadouts?

Edited by Boris The Spider, 22 November 2012 - 01:05 PM.

[John Norad]

deadeye mcduck, on 17 November 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

Just wait till Tuesday, as the Cataphract arrives. I bet you will see plenty of those armed with dual gauss rifles come post patch day.

Actually it's two Gauss Rifles and one ERPPC. Facing four of them is quite.. interesting.
Not as common as 4x AC2 or AC5, though, but this might change.

[BlacKcuD]

Just move the ballistic hardpoints somewhere else and all will be fine. The hotfix for faster weapon destruction works fine with other mechs (like Atlas R5 + Gauss Rifle in toros) but it just made the Catapults that much stronger because with another chasis you can´t even fight back.

Move the hardpoints!

[Cmdr Harabec]

Please just move the ballistic slots to the CT and reduce the torso twist by half. It doesn't need that much torso twist. Seriously, it's sickening for a support mech. It needs to be clunkier.

[Hetfeng321]

SuperSpaceWhale, on 21 November 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

You simply can't have TT rules in a Sci-fi sim like this. When you introduce real-world components, simply having DPS as a way to decide how effective a weapon really doesn't work. It isn't that hard. A simple algorithm with fix this. Abandon the BT mentality that they seem to have and adopt what this game really needs, which is realism, pure realism.

DPS is defintiely a required criterion when balancing weapons but it should not be the only one. Range and a projectile's ability to alter its trajectory after launch need to be accounted for.

To prevent gauss rifles (or PPCs if they get buffed) from being abused at close ranges, simply introduce penalties that grow more severe as the impact distance of the projectile becomes farther from the optimum range. This should be applied to all weapons. If you shoot too far, a ballistic projectile loses velocity or an energy projectile blooms. If you shoot too close, a ballistic projectile over-penetrates or creates shrapnel that damages your mech or an energy projectile creates damaging feedback that effects your mech. If this was introduced, every weapon type would have an optimum range at which they are most effective. Every weapon type would have it's place on the battlefield, thus every weapon type would be used and not abused.

Missles, guided ones in this case, are a source of much complaint in the MWO community. PGI seems to be having trouble balancing them. My solution is to reduce their damage or rate of fire. Guided missles such as LRMs and SSRMs have a nearly 100% chance to hit their target (unless they get behind cover). If you compare a gauss cannon and an LRM pod that have the same DPS, the LRM pod effectivley has more DPS than the gauss cannon when you actually use it because it always hits and the gauss cannon does not. The damage or the rate of fire for the LRM pod must be reduced to account for this.

Of course, a skilled player might rarely miss, thus his gauss cannon has a higher effective DPS. There is nothing that I can think of that can be done about this. The balancing cannot include player skill because the values for the weapons cannot be adjusted as a player enjoys a killing spree.

Edited by Hetfeng321, 22 November 2012 - 08:34 PM.

[Steel Talon]

When u get AC/20 into MG slot, thre should be huge "shoot here!" sign in that place, not tiny MG !!!

[Chrome Dragon]

CompproB237, on 17 November 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

*sees AC/20+AC/10-Cat or Gauss+AC/10-Cat*
Nope. I still think Hardpoint Critical restrictions would work better. Best you could put on K2 with Ballistic Hardpoint restricted to 1 Critical would be 2x AC/2s. Really does solve the problem in my eyes. Also goes with DivineEvil's post. Regular Centurion Vs. Yen-Lo-Wang would also support this. Hardpoint Critical Restriction would make the Regular Centurion (7 Criticals for AC/10) incapable of equipping an AC/20 (10 Criticals) of which the Yen-Lo-Wang was specifically designed to carry.

I know the Arm Actuator was removed to make room for this modification (Hence why it cannot move) but I'm using it for a reference to support my example.

Further Edit: It would also make Jenner's incapable of equipping a PPC or LRM 10. Although, I did love the looks I got when I made my Jenner with a PPC for laughs. The entire team immediately looked at my 'Mech. O_o

Several patches ago, I fell in love with my Centurion - I played fire support for the first half of the match until LRMs were exhausted (LRM10+LRM5 in left torso; this phase I called "bringing the rain"), then moved in to engage with the AC/20 in the right arm. I had to pick my shots carefully with only 1 or 2 tons ammo, but I was occasionally able to kill an Atlas in this phase ("Bringing the pain") with just enough staying power to last out the match.

There are no more Centurions that support my playstyle. Best I can do is a gauss in an CN9-A, but that forces me into a long-range role, which doesn't work so well with spiky inconsistent latency.

I miss this, it was a much more fun game with my crazy-*** Centurion.

[Aidan Malchor]

ZI0N, on 19 November 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

They are not OP builds learn how to fight them. AC 20 Cat will fall easily to a good scout pilot or double team him. Same for a gause cat, you just got to get in close to him and brawl from his side. The streak cat is the weakest of the builds but is counter able to any medium to assault mech. They are primarily light mech destroyers. Play smart and with a good team and they will not be trouble. no need to nerf them are restrict the numbers of weapons on them. I drive an AC cat and I do rack up a lot of quick kills but have never felt it was out of balanced with the other mech.

An AC20 kitty with a pilot that knows how to actually aim (thankfully there arn't that many of em) will wipe the floor with lights trying to circle strafe em. The best and really only safe counter is long range ie 500+ meters. Even at 400 meters I find getting hit would a double dose of AC20 will easily turn most mechs center armor orange.

[Thuraash]

I agree: please move the K2 gun hardpoints to the CT. It makes sense for the missile variants to pack silly amounts of missile firepower, but the twin-gauss and AC/20 K2s just make no sense and break gameplay by putting massive weapons in a tiny, almost unhittable location.

[MagicHamsta]

Darwins Dog, on 19 November 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

We get it. L2P and you can beat a gauss cat. They are easy to outmaneuver, and I think I heard somewhere that you can adjust your tactics to match the mech that you are fighting. Does anyone else remember reading that somewhere?

NO WAI
O.O
You mean me don't has to always go for the eyes of every enemy mech me encounter?
D:

Edited by MagicHamsta, 26 December 2012 - 01:11 AM.

[WiCkEd]

I am hoping for a "stock only" drop-mode. Am I the only one?

[o0Marduk0o]

WiCkEd, on 26 December 2012 - 01:51 AM, said:

I am hoping for a "stock only" drop-mode. Am I the only one?

Yes, you are. Well, they should implement a shooting restriction to fire only once every 10 sec, then they could add a "stock only" mode.

[fuzzylogic01]

Scrap restrictions and hard points all together. I want to re-create some of the custom designs i had during my pen and paper days. Go by slots and weights only.
To quote the U.S.P.S. "If it fits, it ships"

think about a mech like the "Hollander". For those that don't know of it, here is a link, <http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hollander>

It is a 35 ton, gauss mech with endosteel structure and ferrofibrous armor with decent speed.

I would love to see the effects of an "Awesome" with 10+ small lasers, jump jets, a 500XL, ES, and FF.
OR how about an Awesome packing 1 AC/20, 1 gauss, 1 ER PPC, and 2 SRM6's

[MasterBLB]

Both Gauss and AC20 cats are fine as they are.Deal with that whinners and learn to play against such mechs rather than yelling they are overpowered.
And no,I don't drive K2 cat,just kill them with my Jenners,Hunchbacks and Cataphracts.

[redacted]

Edited by Chris K, 26 December 2012 - 10:39 AM.
offensive

[Rocket2Uranus]

themoob, on 19 November 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

Cool drawing

I made a K2 Gauss Cat.
It's not easy.
I'm slow.
I got no other equipment.
I got 80 rounds.
My top speed is 42kph.
It's FUN shooting at enemies far away, but aiming isn't easy.
It's FUN.
It's easily killed by LRM boats.
I have to say, this post is pretty ridiculous. It's not OP.
To be honest, after reading the OP post i made it to see if it was.
I really wasted like 9m CBills.
I'm just gonna go back to playing my Atlas. lol
I actually had a better game putting 2Machine guns.
1 PPC, 1 LPS, 2 MLS and putting a AMS system.

Gonna try 2 20/acs for ***** n giggles.

Edited by Rocket2Uranus, 26 December 2012 - 09:40 AM.

[Ryolacap]

I dont see an issue, ac20s are not all that great, when up against a fresh mech, have short range and you have to hit. Placing 2 means you have a really slow brawing mech, if you brawl with a mech focued on brawing....well. Remember thats 28 tons of weapons and the ammo to support it.

Its not like the super fast Streakcat which uses broken weapons.

SRM6 Cats are the most dangerous IMO

Edited by Ryolacap, 26 December 2012 - 09:42 AM.

[Rocket2Uranus]

Ryolacap, on 26 December 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

I dont see an issue, ac20s are not all that great, when up against a fresh mech, have short range and you have to hit. Placing 2 means you have a really slow brawing mech, if you brawl with a mech focued on brawing....well. Remember thats 28 tons of weapons and the ammo to support it.

Its not like the super fast Streakcat which uses broken weapons.

SRM6 Cats are the most dangerous IMO

SRM6 cats ARE devastating.
I kinda regret getting the K2. SHould of rolled a SRM6 boat instead. oh well.