145 replies to this topic

[Farmer]

I was kicked from a CtF match in CoD this past week for actually capturing the flag instead of letting players boost their KDR. It wasn't the first time, either. So, yeah, stats really can hurt the game. Especially for PUGs.

[Captain Midnight]

Streeter, on 18 November 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

dont know if I agree with this, if I get T/Kd from the start from a random PUG and the team goes on to get stomped that is a loss against me and shows my skill? ummm ok.

That could happen to anyone. I've played a statistically significant number of games and that has never happened to me (although I have died to TKs, never to intentional spawn TKs in over a thousand games). From where I'm sitting I'm just not too worried about it. If it is a HUGE problem that many people face, then no one will begrudge you. If it is an imaginary problem that you are using as an excuse then no one will take you seriously. My stats exist below, I have every single variant of every single mech owned (with c-bills) and elited. Technically I'm still missing the Yen Lo Wang, the D-DC, and a couple awseomes though.
1,139 / 252
Kills / Death

1,066 / 138
Wins / Losses

4.52
Kill / Death Ratio

Edited by Captain Midnight, 18 November 2012 - 11:16 PM.

[Streeter]

Captain Midnight, on 18 November 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

That could happen to anyone. I've played a statistically significant number of games and that has never happened to me (although I have died to TKs, never to intentional spawn TKs in over a thousand games).　*snip*

that was just an example, what about my 20~30 crash to desk tops (very common bug at the moment) how am I meant to influence the game when my client has crashed?

stats are just rubbish at best at the moment. For e-peen purposes my K/D ratio is still far better (nearly triple) yours and W/L ratio is also better.

[Inveramsay]

hood, on 18 November 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

KDR is a silly stat IMHO and here is why.. You get in a atlas and do a ton more damage in one shot that a Jenner can do in almost the whole game. The Atlas can take that hit and keep going where the Jenner is dead in a couple of good ones. These are just side points.

The real point is the Jenner's main job is scouting where the Atlas main job is damage... How do you define a good Jenner pilot if he is doing his job?

Last and most important if they do go to some kind of ranking no matter what the stat, it will be easy to drop that stat just so you can kill the lesser player. This is a team game, it always has been... Learn to work as a team, learn to fight as a team and win or lose it will be fun. I cant count how many times I have been in close matches and those are the ones I remember the most.

Funny, I usually do more damage in my jenner than most atlai do

[Asmosis]

shabowie, on 18 November 2012 - 02:55 AM, said:

Damage done and number of assists is a pretty reliable indication of whether a player is pulling their weight. KD Ratio not so much.

I would need to see that a player switched to targets other than the primary for no reason or flailed around with the reticle needlessly spreading out the damage to believe damage and assists wasn't a reliable measure of their performance in a specific round for any given player.

I prefer the kill shot exp and kill assist exp values. If a scout runs in and scores a lucky sml hit and kills someone, they'll only get 9 exp or something for the kill. If you have totally decimated that same mech with your lrm's and they are in total structure, you'll probably get 200-300 exp for kill assist.

Thats a much better figure to go off of than kills (kill assist only covers the lethal hit section though right? should cover all damage maybe).

[Garrand]

Winners are never scared of stats. Only people with something to hide want to hide stats or move the goalposts.

[Garrand]

hood, on 18 November 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

KDR is a silly stat IMHO and here is why.. You get in a atlas and do a ton more damage in one shot that a Jenner can do in almost the whole game. The Atlas can take that hit and keep going where the Jenner is dead in a couple of good ones. These are just side points.

The real point is the Jenner's main job is scouting where the Atlas main job is damage... How do you define a good Jenner pilot if he is doing his job?

Last and most important if they do go to some kind of ranking no matter what the stat, it will be easy to drop that stat just so you can kill the lesser player. This is a team game, it always has been... Learn to work as a team, learn to fight as a team and win or lose it will be fun. I cant count how many times I have been in close matches and those are the ones I remember the most.

You have been playing with terrible Jenner pilots. I can provide useful intel, disrupt snipers/LRM boats, and deal significant damage all at the same time in a Jenner. Light mechs do not bring less damage to their lance than assaults, but bad mechwarriors bring less damage than good ones. You can define a good Jenner pilot by whether or not he accomplishes the above goals in your games.

"What about solo play?" Solo play doesn't matter and should not be balanced for - this is a team game and players know that going into it. KDR is not a terrible stat (as long as it is actually logged correctly, which it will be when they fix the disconnect-before-death exploit) because the size of mech you pilot has no bearing on your ability to survive. If you think Assaults are harder to kill than Lights or Mediums, I have news for you

[Kaijin]

Garrand, on 19 November 2012 - 12:11 AM, said:

Winners are never scared of stats. Only people with something to hide want to hide stats or move the goalposts.

Kills/Deaths
556/131

Wins/Losses
516/81

I am not scared of them, but I am against public stats.

Edited by Kaijin, 19 November 2012 - 01:08 AM.

[Wispsy]

Kaijin, on 19 November 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

Kills/Deaths
556/131

Wins/Losses
516/81

I am not scared of them, but I am against public stats.

Well those are kinda weak stats.....

[Streeter]

Wispsy, on 19 November 2012 - 01:16 AM, said:

Well those are kinda weak stats.....

have to be careful not to turn this into E-peen wars now.

[Kaijin]

Wispsy, on 19 November 2012 - 01:16 AM, said:

Well those are kinda weak stats.....

They're not much different from Captain Midnight's, but I don't see you commenting on his stats. (Wispsy and I don't get along)

[KingNobody]

I'd just like to say first that I don't know how to find my stats, and furthermore I don't really care. I'm sure I could find them by clicking around this site a bit, but it's never really interested me.
The main point I would like to make is that judging by the puffery and ****-measuring that's going on in this thread (and public stats aren't even out yet!) I don't know if public rankings are a good thing. I would much prefer playing a game with decent, congenial people than engaging in a constant chest-thumping match with people who obviously have pathologically externalized locii of self-worth. I also take umbrage to the characterization of new players and those grinding in trial 'mechs as "useless". People who spend many hours playing games rather than engaging in productive activities should be careful about who they refer to as "useless".
If public stats are going to make this asinine simian behaviour the norm in MWO, I think the game is better off without them.

[p4r4g0n]

KingNobody, on 19 November 2012 - 02:18 AM, said:

I'd just like to say first that I don't know how to find my stats, and furthermore I don't really care. I'm sure I could find them by clicking around this site a bit, but it's never really interested me.
The main point I would like to make is that judging by the puffery and ****-measuring that's going on in this thread (and public stats aren't even out yet!) I don't know if public rankings are a good thing. I would much prefer playing a game with decent, congenial people than engaging in a constant chest-thumping match with people who obviously have pathologically externalized locii of self-worth. I also take umbrage to the characterization of new players and those grinding in trial 'mechs as "useless". People who spend many hours playing games rather than engaging in productive activities should be careful about who they refer to as "useless".
If public stats are going to make this asinine simian behaviour the norm in MWO, I think the game is better off without them.

QFT

[KingNobody]

I don't know what that means lol

[Streeter]

KingNobody, on 19 November 2012 - 02:36 AM, said:

I don't know what that means lol

LOL he agrees so much he quoted it again and labled it "Quoted For Truth"

edit: and I also agree, e-peen wars are really sad.... even sadder is that my stats are far higher than the e-peeners and I feel they have been totally destroyed by disconnects and stuck in terrain. LOL

Edited by Streeter, 19 November 2012 - 02:46 AM.

[Taiji]

Garrand, on 19 November 2012 - 12:11 AM, said:

Only people with something to hide want to hide stats or move the goalposts.

Only stat-padders pretend to believe crap like that.

Wispsy, on 19 November 2012 - 01:16 AM, said:

Well those are kinda weak stats.....

LRMs before nerf, lights since being buffed like crazy, premade stats are all worthless and pugging stats only slightly more realistic, etc. etc. etc.

Meaning there can be no such thing as strong/weak stats yet, and so you're wrong of course.

Edited by Taiji, 19 November 2012 - 06:04 AM.

[BoomDog]

Taiji, on 19 November 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

Only stat-padders pretend to believe crap like that.




LRMs before nerf, lights since being buffed like crazy, premade stats are all worthless and pugging stats only slightly more realistic, etc. etc. etc.

Meaning there can be no such thing as strong/weak stats yet, and so you're wrong of course.

I can't wait for the fixed matchmaking. I think there's going to be a lot of crying when people can't figure out why all of their stats are plummeting.

They should seriously reset all stats when they fix MM.

[Agent of Change]

OK, I'll consider buying into the OP's premise.

but then where are the stats for things that actually matter in the current game? Give me a stat for the following things and I'll get behind the "stats drive team play":

• Scouts identifying enemy targets
  
• Sacrificing yourself to perform a delaying action that wins the game for your team.
  
• Captures participated in (because that is the current mission objective don't cha know)
  
• Support mechs (LRM/snipers) tracking how many mechs they softened for the brawlers
  
• Times you saved a teammate by helping kill a harrassing mech
  
• Times your spotting brought LRM's on a target.
  
• How many wins you survived
  
• How many losses you survived
  
• How many times you failed to finish a match (D/C)

But I feel that when people talk about stats they are only really talking about the K/D rating. Funny thing is certain roles are not going to be strictly concerned with K/D if they are playing as a team.

Team work often requires sacrifice of either dying or personal glory. The teams that understand this will win and the teams made up of stat hunters (as the stats currently stand) will not.

If your K/D is so important that you won't fight a last stand to delay a cap even if it means you get cored then you are not a team player. If you won't forgo the chance for a sure kill against a crippled opponent to help a teammate survive, you are not a team player. If you won't risk your self for the good of the team, you are not a team player. Show me where the stats are currently that encourage a team play and I'll agree with you, but as it stands I don't sweat the K/D, I do my job as best I can and try to stay alive long enough to make a difference.

I'm going to tell a story I'm a little humbled by, I do not tell this to brag on myself but just to illustrate my point:

Yesterday I was playing a few rounds with some friends (a 3 man drop at the time) and we dropped into forest colony, I'm running a scout cicada. I did not have a great round stat wise, 4 assists and I died near the end. But i did play my scouting role i was all over the place, spotting, harrassing, and drawing enemy fire. I touched the enemy base and ran back to our own when we were being capped, i didn't stop for easy targets, i just focused on the goal and ended up in a 3 on 1 fight against a streak commando, a jennere and a srm cat. I lived long enough to buy time for a couple of teammates to get their and maintain the delay while they capped, I was a little disappointed i didn't make more of a difference. As the game was almost over one of the PUG players that dropped with us did a global chat "Agent of Change won that game for us"... Probably one of my proudest moments playing MWO. And there is only one stat for what I did: Deaths.

Edited by Agent of Change, 19 November 2012 - 07:15 AM.

[John Norad]

SamizdatCowboy, on 17 November 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:

There also seems to be this care bear mentality that players shouldn't worry about their personal stats period.

Dude, what is wrong with you?
That absolutely makes no sense whatsoever and tbh sounds like pure bias.
If you want to call every teamplay-oriented player a carebear, go ahead and look like a moron.

And yeah, your personal stats are secondary. What counts is the team performance, i.e. win or loss.
It also depends on how they would implement stats. Just K/D and W/L is ridiculously simplified for a team based game and merely encourages kill whoring, which is exactly why many people say ignore stats. A kill wh... oriented player is either a douche or a real carebear, not caring about the team.

I have no idea why a player with a functioning brain and without an overgrown ego should be a care bear.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kaijin, on 19 November 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

Kills/Deaths
556/131

Wins/Losses
516/81

I am not scared of them, but I am against public stats.

Kinda oxymoronic don't you think? Against public stats then you share yours!