299 replies to this topic

[Cola]

Its not punishment, its clever marketing.

[Slanski]

I actually like the current progression system. Players wish to be diverse and set themselves apart from others. Specializing in one mech in a non trivial way is a good solution for this in the current game state. If the game was more complete and had mercenary units scraping by on contracts, gathering fame conquering the planets of the IS, I would retaylor the entire way mechs for players are handled, but we have what we have for 8vs8 games.

Now I know I am an "xyz chassis" pilot and not just anyone can duplicate it in a day. The dedicated players can complete the entire range of mechs, thus keeping rewards from matches relevant at least for a while and PGI in business until they come up with something better.

Edited by Slanski, 19 November 2012 - 02:56 AM.

[Skulltaffy]

MustrumRidcully, on 19 November 2012 - 12:56 AM, said:

I don't know if punishing is the right word. I think it could work - requiring additional mech variants to be bought - if they would also retain the base benefits, and simply stack on new.

Let's say we keep with the current mech efficicenies, boring as they may be - imagine the bonuses stack between the variants - so if you got Cool Running on 3 Mech Variants, you get three times the bonus for each mech!

Suddenly it sounds much more interesting to me, and it may be worth it. It's still a bit grindy, but I don't have to just buy what I already have - I upgrade.

Sorry but that is a terible idea. "hey i think i would like to leran how to play a hunchback, guess ill just learn to play better by fighting that guy who has 3x speed tweak for an indeterminate period of time which surley wont harm my teamates at all" is not something that should be advocated. As it stands your not unlocking potential from your mech or mastering skills your just submitting to hazzing for the unfair non skillbased advantge yor given. The fact that experince with the game makes you better at the game and that that logic caried through means experencing more of the game increases this effect has nothing to do with this gate system the dev team has chosen.

[ElCadaver]

It's boring playing the same mech all the time in 3 variants......just to level it up.

I'd rather own a whole fleet of different mechs for the variants I like, and customise/ level them how I want.

It doesn't mean I will only buy those mechs. In closed beta (when the c-bills were rolling in), I'd buy a mech, try it for a bit, and if I didn't like the feel, I'd sell it and buy a different variant, or different mech entirely.

The current system promotes boredom. As a player who plans to only buy mech bays ( an possibly one or two hero mechs when I see one I love), PGI would have more money from me sooner not forcing me to grind variants. As it is, I'll buy 3 atlases, grind them to master, and sell the two I don't want. then I'll start with another mech. I'll need to buy extra mech bays far less often than if I could do it as described above, because I'd be more willing to have a lot of different mechs in mind to level up. As it is I'm going to master 2 heavies/assaults and a light, and see how I feel from there.

[Vosje]

I voted 'Yes', even though I had no problems with it myself.

I can totally see why people think of it as punishment and think there would be a better solution. Foremost, I see learning to control a mech like a form of dancing: You have to dance with multiple partners to master the form in itself. Since hardware is less bound to have quirks then people and more different layouts then a human, I do understand the need for driving more then 1 mech of the same type to get to elite (seeing as 1 blow up every other match, keeping that heirloom is not much of an option ) But driving more then 2 should be a choice with current selection of mech-layouts. (The Exp-costs should be changed accordingly, as we would not want to lower our standards for elite mechwarriors, right?)
That said: Too master a mech class, I think you should have proven yourself in more the 1 mech-type, not the same type over-and-over again. And yes, the rewards for it should be worth it (which isn't the case yet).

Finally: There should be some form of progress for weapon-usage. Allways running with lasers, maybe have their heat lowered. Always running with lang range weaponry, maybe extend the range a bit. Getting a crackshot with a weapon on multiple classes and/or chassis: Improve a bit more. Combine this with mastering a mech and people may just be inclined to get that extra variant into play, so they can make use of their enhanced weapon/piloting-skills.

Thinking a bit along the current implemetation towards the future: Your advances could 'free' modules that, once installed, give you a benefit. Mastery allows you to use more modules, but only those you qualified for (on multiple mechs?) instead of solely buying them with GXP.

Edit: To elebarate on 'mastering a mech-class', this can be a separate thing from 'mastering a mech-type'.

Edited by Vosje, 19 November 2012 - 03:42 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Skulltaffy, on 19 November 2012 - 03:13 AM, said:

Sorry but that is a terible idea. "hey i think i would like to leran how to play a hunchback, guess ill just learn to play better by fighting that guy who has 3x speed tweak for an indeterminate period of time which surley wont harm my teamates at all" is not something that should be advocated. As it stands your not unlocking potential from your mech or mastering skills your just submitting to hazzing for the unfair non skillbased advantge yor given. The fact that experince with the game makes you better at the game and that that logic caried through means experencing more of the game increases this effect has nothing to do with this gate system the dev team has chosen.

Well, the bonuses could be reduced to 1/3 of what they are now. The net effect will be the same, how you got there will be different.

[Khobai]

Quote

Its not punishment, its clever marketing.

Except that its not clever at all because most people are opposed to it.

[Eiki]

I don't think it is too much really. Although it would be much nicer if you only needed two variants.

[Corleym]

its punishment and its a way to extend the grind - why not make the Xp upgrade just cost 3X more so we can play chasis variants we actually like

[Dethl0k]

I would rather pay 10 times the mech xp required than have to pilot a chasis i dont enjoy playing

[Soulscour]

Corleym, on 19 November 2012 - 04:48 AM, said:

its punishment and its a way to extend the grind - why not make the Xp upgrade just cost 3X more so we can play chasis variants we actually like

Because then you would be less inclined to buy more mech bays which can only be purchased with money silly.

[Sasha Volkova]

Ptom, on 18 November 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

I am rather new to the Mech Warrior series, and while I am having a blast playing it, this one topic irks me.

Why should we be forced to buy all variants of the same chassis just to upgrade one of our favorite mechs? Is there a lore reason for this, is it based on something like tabletop squads, or is it just a development route pgi decided to take?

From a personal perspective, It feels punishing to me to be forced to buy all variants of the catapult in order to upgrade my brawler k2 cat simply because... I hate using missiles! So using all those c-Bills to buy mechs that I will never use in order to upgrade one of my favorites seems wasteful to me.

This is even more painful for new players to go through, since they will not have the c-bill founders boost that many players get to enjoy and also have higher repair-costs since they most likely are not part of a coalition they can play with, so they are forced to join risky pugs.

It also harms diversity. Considering that you may only store up to 4 mechs, players will be pigeonholed into using only one type of mech rather than being allowed to free-roam with any mech of their choice. Some people like to switch it up a little now and then, but are prevented from doing that since he/she feels no progress in upgrading that mech since they would need 2 more of the same mech (lots of c-bills) to achieve any progression.

Don't get me wrong, I believe the xp system to unlock new rewards for your mech is a great route to take. But I'd rather see something like: "X amount of experience must be earned in this mech to unlock the elite tree" or something like that rather than being forced to buy mechs that a player doesn't want.

I think the overall design for the xp system is getting there. But it is incomplete and heading in the wrong direction.

Sorry this is so long winded, but I thank whoever takes the time to look at the current system with a non-biased eye and discuss any alternatives or objections to this post.
¨TL:DR I THINK IT TAKES TOO MUCH TIME AND IS WIERD THAT I HAVE TO GRIND XP IN A MODEL THAT USES A DIFFERENT KIND OF WEAPON THAN THE MECH I WANT TO RUN IN THE END, JUST TO GET THE ELITE UPGRADES.

There, added a ¨too long didnt read¨ to your post, feel free to take it without giving me credit :b

Anyway I am just gonna give my opinion on this matter as a new player to this game.
I picked it up this weekend actually, started playing around friday and by the end of sunday I had 2 mechs that costs me roughly 10 mills to build (I tried alot of different weapons and setups before realizing what I wanted) and I have to say that the only real problem for me now, is getting the last mech so that I can gain the xp needed for that one, since the other two mechs already have all the basic upgrades.
My point is, it does not take so long as you gave me the impression of in your post. Then again it all comes down to what models you run.
An Atlas or an Awesome is gonna take longer to fully upgrade since repairs and mech prices are higher so you will often max them out long before being able to buy the next model, where as lights will be fast and easy to max out and also comes at a lot lower pricetag.

In the end though, it all comes down to how much time you invest and how much you do in each round, remember that assists, kills, caps, etc all gives you that xp you want and need so badly. Even spotting and pinpointing missile fire gives xp.
So just get out there and start helping that team you are with or that pug you just met, and give the enemy the fight of their lives, because you want that xp they are worth, and you want it now!

TL:DR I am a new player and it seems balanced and okay imo, only problem I can see is the larger mechs pricetag and the high repair bills associated with running them.

[Blaank]

F2P
P2W

It is hindering as intended.

EDIT: I can like my own posts? Ha!

Edited by Blaank, 19 November 2012 - 06:12 AM.

[Naeron66]

The Herrick, on 18 November 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

They already made back all their dev costs and turned a profit.

And the evidence for this is where?

The Herrick, on 18 November 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

Just because the game is free to play does not mean they need to gate off everything with stupid amounts of grind that players hate in the off chance they will pay for shortcuts instead of leaving for one of the many better ran F2P titles out there.

Of course they do need to earn more money, they need to fund the servers and the ongoing development,

[Naeron66]

I7aggoHok, on 18 November 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

Ok. I buy Yen-Lo-Wang. And now i need 2 buy two additional centurions and 2 mechbuys slots to up it. I buy Yen-Lo-Wang just because i full up all my catapults and wait for CATAPHRACT. But now i need to buy 5 slots... so epic fail

So sell 2 cats. If you don't want to contribute any money at all then you should have less variety available to you and should have to put in a bit more effort.

[Mawai]

The only reason for this system is monetary. If you are required to have 3 variants of a mech to level it up then you can either grind for cbills or spend MC. Some folks will choose one approach and some the other but the net effect is that more people will spend real life money. In addition, this approach will likely necessitate additional mech bays ... so another source of income for PGI.

Keep in mind that those who are actually interested in spending the time to grind the required xp in the first place are unlikely to quit the game as a result of this mechanic. Also, I found that in the case of the Jenner ... with founders and premium bonus ... I was able to make almost enough cbills grinding xp to purchase the next variant. I also only purchased one XL engine to share between all the variants and I was transferring all the equipment I thought was useful in order to save cbills.

Luckily, I actually enjoy playing MWO so "grinding" is only a problem since I don't have the time to play and not due to dissatisfaction with actually having to play the game to level up.

[Khobai]

The entire system is designed to be predatory. Instead of offering players actual content they *want* to buy, the system is set up so that you basically have to buy premium and GXP. In other words instead of rewarding people for spending money, theyre punishing people for not spending money. Its a terrible business model and needs to be reevaluated.


Here's some ideas to help PGI get on the right track:

1) Dont force new players to start in Trial Mechs. Instead start everyone off with enough MC or c-bills to buy at least a Hunchback. Trial Mechs are clearly just some hair-brained scheme to force new players to spend MC on their first 'real' mech and the community resents that.

2) Revise the whole XP system because its terrible. Forcing players to play variants they dont want to play as part of a scheme to get people to buy more mechs and mech bays is just absurd. Instead of having to level up 3 variants, you should just triple the amount of XP you need to level up a mech, but let anyone master that mech by only playing that mech. And in order to ensure that all variants are used you should add a popularity system, so that unpopular variants, gain a considerable c-bill boost. Additionally the mech efficiencies should be revised so that each mech variant has unique skills that make that variant appealing.

3) Allow players to earn MC for free. Most other free to play games allow players to earn the paid currency for free. The idea is if you can earn rewards for playing, you have more incentive to keep playing, and the overall experience for everyone is improved. Additionally, any pay-to-win accusations surrounding hero mechs immediately get thrown out the window as soon as anyone can earn MC for free.

4) Sell items that players actually want to buy. The founders packs proved that players are willing to spend money on this game. But PGI needs to stop trying to sell stupid crap like mechs, cockpit items, and paint jobs. If PGI wants players to spend a lot of money on their game they need to sell us 'real' content... like PVE campaign packs, more hero mechs, etc...

Edited by Khobai, 19 November 2012 - 09:18 AM.

[Taizan]

I voted no. But the system per se could use some improvement.

Right now I am kind of angry that I (lack of knowledge/information) picked the HBK-4G as third mech and having to level it to get master on the SP. Loving the SP very much but that 4G is horrible, especially because I usually have lag in the evening and ofc the huge hunch makes it feel very squishy.

[Xorak]

I voted YES.

I don't feel too strongly either way though. I think would be nicer if they upped the XP requirements for normal and elite, but grouped them into the same chassis family, rather than each variant. To unlock master you should have to do it in that variant.

I'd rather they work on match making instead.

[StainlessSR]

There has to be an incentive in the FTP model to encourage players to pay. They are trying to stay away from pay to win so making it take awhile to make the C-Bills to buy that next mech may just be the incentive needed to get you to spend some real world currency to buy that mech instead of grinding for it. You are not charged a monthly subscription fee to play the game but they need to make money so having the grind be long is their way to prod you to pay for Premium or just buy that mech. This is the real world and if you wish this game to be around any length of time they have to make paying for premium/mechs pay, and not paying not instantly gratifying. At least they are not limiting non-premuim members to just one map, requiring you to have a subscription to get more content.