299 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Gorith, on 18 November 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

It's not punishing players it's a way to keep people from maxing out mechs to quickly. Remeber for them for make money with players paying mainly for cosmetics and cbill/xp boosts the grind must be fairly substantial.

or make the game good and ppl have fun rather than worry about the grind

[Johnny Reb]

Vassago Rain, on 18 November 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

I already maxed out EVERY SINGLE MECH I HAVE AN INTEREST IN. Note, that means elite level, since master isn't gonna do anything for a very long time.

Actually master does now give you an extra module slot.

[HooDoo]

I am of mixed minds on this topic... so I voted yes and no!

I really dont mind the grind that much because hey, it is also extra C-bills and GXP earned. But I do wish that once we unlock the first level, we could keep going to continue to unlock the other tiers with out having to own all three mechs to progress any one.

[Scytale]

Lamont, on 19 November 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:

To those that say that you have to try out all the variants to be a master, I disagree. All your really doing is becoming a jack of all trades. To master a particular variant, you spend time on just the one you want to master. For example, I used to work at a factory. I had a "bought" job that I had worked at that particular station every workday for years. I got really good at it. Over the years I found the right way for me to perform the job even though it deviated from the work instructions. I even got the the point where every break I would switch hands to help prevent carpel tunnel. I did have to use both hands on the job, but each hand had something different to do to perform the job. After a while, they switched us to teams and job rotations where we had to switch off every break to a different station in our team. There was seven different stations in our team and while I learned the other 6 stations, I sure as heck didn't master any of them. Having to work 6 different stations in one night you can't invest the time and effort to master any of them. Did I eventually get faster at the other stations? Sure, but mastering them? Absolutely not.

True, but from experience I can say I've benefited in understanding my mech by playing three variants. I play the 2D variant of the commando because I love me my streaks, but my other two variants were the ones that have even missile/energy distribution and a 1/3 M-E distribution. Playing both of those variants helped me to understand certain limitations in my playstyle that I might not have picked up with my COM-2D alone. Is a 3-streak 1ML combo really the best I can do? What about 1LL 2ML? Or an even 2streak-2ML? I feel better-off for having investigated these options to a non-trivial degree, and I think it has improved my 2D-play as a result.

I don't dispute that this would be more difficult to do in heavier models because they're so expensive. One could argue that you could simply sell a variant once you've unlocked basic on it, but that nets you only half the cash back. However, in principle I think the system is a good one (Maybe they could set up a system so that new variants of the same mech are at a discount? Hmm).

[gregsolidus]

The game is free to play but not free to enjoy.

[Bloody]

they are not punishing you

they are trying to make as much money from your using their main weapon, timesink.

[Scytale]

gregsolidus, on 19 November 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

The game is free to play but not free to enjoy.

It's always fun to put pointless statements like these in a thread, isn't it?

[River Walker]

with 100 of Mechs in the Battletech lore I don't think thy need to force user to buy the same Mech over a number of time to move up.
The better the Variant the more XP its going to cost you, their is a lot of ways to skin this Cat to make it work.
Buying MC to convert Xp to GXP is a good way to do it with out forcing the user to buy Mechs he or she dos not want in their Mech Bays,this is how I will be doing it so I only have the ride I want in my Bay.

[Jaynis]

Someone brought up World of Tanks, saying it is a similar way, by making people drive tanks they don't like, etc.

The difference of that is, you don't have to buy those tanks to progress. You can use free exp, to completely bypass whole tanks and upgrades. Also their progression trees and rate are *very* different from here, so it really shouldn't be compared unless someone wants to try to work out a similar system for MWO.

And I voted yes, but its not so much I have an issue with the current system, but I really feel it needs improvement. Perhaps some things need to be reversed.

I'd find the requirement for master should be the one for Elite and the requirement for Master should be the one for Elite. So, it would take 3 Mechs of the same weight class to unlock Elite, but 3 of the same chassis to get Master. It would force players to still buy a Mech, but it would require a different chassis, or the same one. I'd much prefer it if I could get to try 3 different Mechs to get the much more beneficial Elite bonuses, rather than grudge through the same hull 3 times.

Also as it stands right now the Master requirement doesn't make much sense. I mean, if I already got 3 of the same Mech to Elite, why bother using a different Mech to get to Master? In the end even if you grab another Mech and start leveling it up, you'll still have to buy 3 of the same Chassis to even get to Elite.

The negative of this however it would be a tad bit faster to get Elite on a new type of Mech, but you'd still have to completely "master" that chassis in order to unlock Master in the end. Which imo would better in the end,e specially when modules become FAR more important in the near future.

Edited by 7thD3adlyS1n, 19 November 2012 - 10:13 PM.

[p4r4g0n]

7thD3adlyS1n, on 19 November 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

I'd find the requirement for master should be the one for Elite and the requirement for Master should be the one for Elite. So, it would take 3 Mechs of the same weight class to unlock Elite, but 3 of the same chassis to get Master. It would force players to still buy a Mech, but it would require a different chassis, or the same one. I'd much prefer it if I could get to try 3 different Mechs to get the much more beneficial Elite bonuses, rather than grudge through the same hull 3 times.

Also as it stands right now the Master requirement doesn't make much sense. I mean, if I already got 3 of the same Mech to Elite, why bother using a different Mech to get to Master? In the end even if you grab another Mech and start leveling it up, you'll still have to buy 3 of the same Chassis to even get to Elite.

The negative of this however it would be a tad bit faster to get Elite on a new type of Mech, but you'd still have to completely "master" that chassis in order to unlock Master in the end. Which imo would better in the end,e specially when modules become FAR more important in the near future.

Makes sense

[SuperPuppy]

arden, on 19 November 2012 - 02:49 AM, said:

Its not punishment, its clever marketing.

It's neither.

It's bad design.

[Skoll Lokeson]

SilentSooYun, on 18 November 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

On the other hand, it does make an excellent C-Bill sink, and encourages us to buy MC for a quick Mech purchase.
So... financial/economy reasons, as well as a lack of imagination.

I've actually avoided spending MC on some chassis I like because I don't feel like grinding the other two variants of it. Less money for PGI/IPG less fun for me = lose-lose situation. I don't mind having to play more than one 'mech to progress. Infact, I'd rather play 5 different chassis/variants I really like than grind 2 variants I don't. I defiantly wont PAY real money for variants I feel forced to grind.

[Vassago Rain]

Johnny Reb, on 19 November 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

Actually master does now give you an extra module slot.

Yes, and the modules we have are totally good, and worth the thousands of GXP.

[Mr Steik]

It's called effort.

[MustrumRidcully]

Vassago Rain, on 20 November 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

Yes, and the modules we have are totally good, and worth the thousands of GXP.

Thousands of GXP is too cheap IMO. It should also cost Millions of C-Bills. Maybe even MC.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 20 November 2012 - 04:18 AM.

[DogmeatX]

I'd rather have a bit more XP to deal with than be forced to drive 2 other variants I don't like, just so I can progress the one I do want to play with.

Besides which it makes no sense logically.

It's the same as saying to someone they can't get better with their favourite car they're driving because they don't have the coupe or the soft top version on their drive and haven't driven those two variants.

You drive/race one car you get better and better with experience and skill. You don't magically stop improving just because you didn't drive the two other variants and need to own/drive them first before you can go back to the original one and continue improving...

It's just not a good way of implementing things.

[Vassago Rain]

MustrumRidcully, on 20 November 2012 - 04:17 AM, said:

Thousands of GXP is too cheap IMO. It should also cost Millions of C-Bills. Maybe even MC.

You haven't unlocked any, have you? They cost millions of c-bills to put on mechs. Lots and lots of millions.

This in addition to their gigantic GXP costs, and very limited powers.

[MustrumRidcully]

Vassago Rain, on 20 November 2012 - 04:27 AM, said:

You haven't unlocked any, have you? They cost millions of c-bills to put on mechs. Lots and lots of millions.

This in addition to their gigantic GXP costs, and very limited powers.

Just imagine I had put irony tags around my post.

I unlooked all of them in the Closed Beta, when they had reasonable prices. And were already a bit disappointing. The Capture Module really, really disappointed me. It's so unimmersive, so metagamey. I was expecting more from modules. I seem to remember or imagine UAVs, Artillery Strikes and all such interesting things. But an abstract "magically make the magic capturing process faster" module? Meh, I say.

The faster identification module made somewhat sense to me. I could believe this as some kind of upgrade to my sensors or sensors software.
The Pip Zoom thingy - I didn't try that yet (wasn't available in Closed Beta), it may be okay, assuming they fix the reported issues.

But the prices, the XP grind.. It's not worth it bothering. It feel like luxury items that you really, really don't need, you only do this if you got 30 mechs in your garage and 50,000,000 C-Bills and don't know what to do with them.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 20 November 2012 - 04:47 AM.

[VaMPHuNT]

7thD3adlyS1n, on 19 November 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

Someone brought up World of Tanks, saying it is a similar way, by making people drive tanks they don't like, etc.

The difference of that is, you don't have to buy those tanks to progress. You can use free exp, to completely bypass whole tanks and upgrades. Also their progression trees and rate are *very* different from here, so it really shouldn't be compared unless someone wants to try to work out a similar system for MWO.

And I voted yes, but its not so much I have an issue with the current system, but I really feel it needs improvement. Perhaps some things need to be reversed.

I'd find the requirement for master should be the one for Elite and the requirement for Master should be the one for Elite. So, it would take 3 Mechs of the same weight class to unlock Elite, but 3 of the same chassis to get Master. It would force players to still buy a Mech, but it would require a different chassis, or the same one. I'd much prefer it if I could get to try 3 different Mechs to get the much more beneficial Elite bonuses, rather than grudge through the same hull 3 times.

Also as it stands right now the Master requirement doesn't make much sense. I mean, if I already got 3 of the same Mech to Elite, why bother using a different Mech to get to Master? In the end even if you grab another Mech and start leveling it up, you'll still have to buy 3 of the same Chassis to even get to Elite.

The negative of this however it would be a tad bit faster to get Elite on a new type of Mech, but you'd still have to completely "master" that chassis in order to unlock Master in the end. Which imo would better in the end,e specially when modules become FAR more important in the near future.

It seems you forgot to include the sheer price tag that comes with converting tank-specific experience to free experience to use in order to skip over the tanks you don't like. I can't believe somebody is even trying to compare World of Tanks to MWO, simply by the fact WoT was (And still is, to a very fine point), pay to win, where-as MWO has a true F2P basis with the OPTION to pay for more.

If somebody who played WoT was willing to shell out the cash to skip tanks, convert experience, and use premium consumables (Myself included, outside the consumables), then they should also be willing to shell out the cash to buy the 'mechs they need to research all their Pilot Lab trees. For players who don't want to, or can't, spend money on MWO (I personally can't at this point), then I'd strongly suggest they get with an organized group of players or a clan or some such to maximize their profits in-game to better afford what they need or want.

[Gooner]

Yes.

I see no real gameplay reason for the 3 chassis thing. You get a mech that feels good, set up the loadout how you want, and then get to a situation where the only way to upgrade is to abandon it for several hours and use loadouts that feel "wrong", knowing you'll sell the unwanted chassis and go back to the good one at the earliest opportunity.

The only purpose it serves is to keep players hooked on a long grind mechanic, and force players to spend MC on extra mech slots.