299 replies to this topic

[Elkarlo]

Rejarial Galatan, on 05 January 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

hey straften, riddle me this one. If say someones job is to say, bolt doors on cars, and suddenly the company says: Okay Door Bolter Joe, you NOW must bolt Transmissions to the car instead for a period of 6 months, and then bolt rear ends onto the car. Same factory job, working on the same exact car TYPE. Is Door Bolter Joe becoming ANY better at bolting those doors on by now bolting transmissions and rear ends onto the car? No. Does he learn that aspect of the job? Yes. Does it IMPROVE his MAIN job? NOPE. It is wasting our hard earned c-bills on mechs that we do not need to pilot. Period.

And thats exactly what the Car Making industrie makes in Germany, Japan... Changing workstations to reduce Working Fatique and improve Quality of their Products.

They putt together a Working team for a Car and the Team has each week another Task on bolting Car together.
So that the Workforce is flexible and learns other Ways. It's a good way to improve Work Quality.

So your Analogy is a fail, as it is exactly done this way in Countries were it is someway expensiv but the win in built Quality is important.

And to your Analogy: If the Team mounts all the Time the Fender a little sloppy the Door Team will have problems with the Spacings between Parts and they will be a little off. But they would only see that when they are at the Doors station. So when they have worked a Week at the Doors stations and comes back to the Fenders Stations Chances are high that they will take more Care when installing the Fenders.

But nobody hinders you from driving a Cheap American Build car. But you could buy a more expensiv European or Japanese... And thats exactly what PGI does.

You can drive your Mech with Single effencies, but if you want double and Elite, you have to invest lot of money and Time for better Quality.

Edited by Elkarlo, 06 January 2013 - 02:26 AM.

[PaintedWolf]

Okay I read a Comstar message on "Subsidies" in the Great Houses.I mean these are Total War Economies.

Okay "The Enemy Military used trade in a biased manner towards itself." Yes, in conflict a military-industrial complex (which do exist for sure) will favor their controlled resource bases. Less controlled resource bases are less preferred. Comstar always favor Comguards over FedRats for example.

FedRats FTL for srs.

Edited by PaintedWolf, 06 January 2013 - 02:22 AM.

[BerryChunks]

It's not punishment.

it's a Stick to encourage RMT, especially if a mech has only 2 low cost variants and a 3rd variant at double Cbill cost.

you lose money selling mechs to create space for another variant, if you only have basic mech bays.

usually the Double Price variant also allows Better Engine selection, so there's another thing locked away behind an RMT wall.

[Shade Cido]

With the latest patch, you can now gain mech XP from Trial mechs, so there is no longer a need to buy a chassis to upgrade. Just wait until it comes around in the trial mech rotation and then level it up. Doesnt cost anything - Cha ching.

Im currently levelling up the trial stalker.

[smokefield]

King Arthur IV, on 06 January 2013 - 02:04 AM, said:

im not so upset that i have to use 3 mechs but im upset for paying for downgrades.
i feel like if i bought a upgrade i should be able to keep the down graded one and switch between the two for a small fee.

i told this in another topic of mine. i think that if pgi wants to make us spend cbills can find better ways and not bshiting us about this...

[King Arthur IV]

smokefield, on 06 January 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

i told this in another topic of mine. i think that if pgi wants to make us spend cbills can find better ways and not bshiting us about this...

like make us pay for paint that we can KEEP but you must use a small amount of cbill to switch between paints. or option to repaint because of battle damage (like RNR for paint)

point is there are other ways to make us spend cbills.

Edited by King Arthur IV, 06 January 2013 - 05:43 AM.

[Glythe]

It doesn't feel punishing now but when we get the clan mechs..... that will hurt. You're looking for about 10m for a scout mech.

That might be 60m for your trio of assault mechs..... ouch.

[Mechteric]

I kinda like it because otherwise I wouldn't have found out how great the hunchback 4P is since I already had the AC20 variant

[Lightfoot]

In MWO the variants are not much different, so yes, there is no roleplay reason to run three nearly identical chassis.

I would actually have players master two and then for the third they get to select one from a group of specialized variants. Like an Awesome with a Ballistic hardpoint, for example. Then they take this one and complete their mastery of the chassis type.

[SkullLeader00]

CapperDeluxe, on 06 January 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

I kinda like it because otherwise I wouldn't have found out how great the hunchback 4P is since I already had the AC20 variant

I Agree. Seems like a daunting task but you get to know the variants more; perhaps even lead to a discovery. However it also leads to another point...

Lightfoot, on 06 January 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:

In MWO the variants are not much different, so yes, there is no roleplay reason to run three nearly identical chassis.

I would actually have players master two and then for the third they get to select one from a group of specialized variants. Like an Awesome with a Ballistic hardpoint, for example. Then they take this one and complete their mastery of the chassis type.

The first point would only be true if the variants are different.

So no it's not punishing because you get to experience the other mech variants... however it will be redundant/boring/mind numbing if the variants are the same or very similar.

So far the ravens, catapults and cataphracts have varied enough variants... I'm looking into another mech to dive into but when I checked the stalker, the variants all look the same.

[HiplyRustic]

Enig, on 18 November 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

That most certainly isn't the point

How, by even the most tortured and twisted reasoning, isn't that the point?

[Devin Caedwyn]

Honestly I absolutely DETEST this mechanic and think it has zero business whatsoever being in the game. Hey, go play mechs you don't wanna play because we wanna drag out the grind by making you buy multiple of the same @#$%ing chassis and pay to upgrade them/customize them.

First rule of game design: Is it fun?

No, it's not.

It needs to go, a better solution needs to be found, it's beta so I hope they're looking into things like that. I want to play what I want to play, and advance what I want to advance, not have it dictated for me.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

I feel quite the opposite. For me it is quite rewarding playing out different chassis' while grinding the skills. When you start playing around with em they're not so alike after all. Different hardpoints (and behaviour in some) are important how the mech plays out. I think everyone should realize this. But there are always players who just want the elite skills for one mech and one build (atm it's the Raven 3L, laughing at the poor b*stards i see in pugs) and people who say one chassis is useless because it doesn't fit for their purpose. Don't really care about them.

[Devin Caedwyn]

IV Amen, on 06 January 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

I feel quite the opposite. For me it is quite rewarding playing out different chassis' while grinding the skills. When you start playing around with em they're not so alike after all. Different hardpoints (and behaviour in some) are important how the mech plays out. I think everyone should realize this. But there are always players who just want the elite skills for one mech and one build (atm it's the Raven 3L, laughing at the poor b*stards i see in pugs) and people who say one chassis is useless because it doesn't fit for their purpose. Don't really care about them.

There's better ways to encourage diversity than forcing it.

And just as there are players who play variants unsuited to them, the system will FORCE them into playing variants that are unsuited for them. And cost them alot of C-Bills and, in the end, frustration when they realize they're wasting money on things they don't want.

Flavour of the month will always be around, regardless of grinding elite skills. Had a match last night where there were 4 Raven 3Ls on my team The only heavy armor was my Cataphract and a fellow Cataphract

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Devin Caedwyn, on 06 January 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

And just as there are players who play variants unsuited to them, the system will FORCE them into playing variants that are unsuited for them. And cost them alot of C-Bills and, in the end, frustration when they realize they're wasting money on things they don't want.

Wrong, system doesn't force you to anything. You can use MC to skip the grind on a mech you don't want to use. It is part of the F2P model.

[Devin Caedwyn]

IV Amen, on 06 January 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

Wrong, system doesn't force you to anything. You can use MC to skip the grind on a mech you don't want to use. It is part of the F2P model.

Yeah, that's true to a point, but the Free part is too punishing and long of a grind. And that causes players to quit. And players are content.

*edit* Someone earlier suggested tripling xp costs and even that would be more desireable to the current system. Still a long grind that encourages people to buy premium to help it out, and having only one mech means alot of extra mech xp sitting around that will tempt people into buying MC to convert it into their other mechs they freshly buy.

Edited by Devin Caedwyn, 06 January 2013 - 09:01 AM.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

I'll put in some cold math for you all. Assumption is that you already have all basic for the mech you want to put elite skills on.

It takes 14250 XP to unlock all basic. Let's say average XP per match (PUGs solo) is 320. Average match lasts about 8 minutes (just a wild guess). So 14250 / 320 = 44,5 matches. This times 8 minutes divided by 60 gives you about 6 hours of active play per mech. So two mechs grind is 12 hours and you have unlocked the elite skills for the mech you want.

By adding premium time (320 x 1,5 = 480XP per match), time is about 4 hours per mech. So 8 hours of active play time.

Buying the XP by using XP to GXP conversion is $3,17 per mech with the $6,95 1250 MC package, so it'll cost you $6,34. (Reference: http://homepage.usas...0price_list.jpg - Kudos to KitK)

I think this is very reasonable. If you play 2 hours a day for example, this means 6 days and with premium 4 days. Doesn't sound that bad.

[Lykaon]

Punishing? no.

neccissary? also no.

I can see why it is this way.

1) cash sink. we will all be swiming in c-bills anyhow because no matter how bad you are in a match you make money.

2) Gets players to try more mech varients.I made a discovery about stalkers because of this.

3) Sets a demand for MC.To lazy/busy to grind C-bills buy with MC.Run out of mech bays because you need three to master any one chassis buy more with MC.

[Irvine]

Getting different variants made me learn more about how i play, and what builds jive best with my play style. Such and such build forces me to be more aware of X for me to be effective.

For Example:

I really had made my living on Catapult C1 with 4xMLs and 2xLRM15s. I really didn't worry about arm convergence, limited torso twist, or how critical heat management is. Really I just waited until my missiles were in effective range, spammed those, then went into mop up duty towards the end of the fight.

Then I saved enough money that I bought a K2. I threw on 4LL because i wasn't very good at hitting broadsides of a barn( or would Fatlass be a better example?0.o) at the time. This build taught me a lot about keeping my lasers on target, and heat management. This was an unforgiving build esp in Caldera. This K2 then went to being a 2xUAC DAKKA Cat to now the AC20Cat.

My third Catapult also taught me a lot about how I play. I took the C4 over the A1 because it allowed for some zombie ability when the streaks, yes i made a post ECM streakcat, were shot off or ECMed. I always had a way to fight at range, either pseudo sniping with the K2 or Shooting LRMs. A streakcat with 2xMLs and 4xSSRMs doesn't have any long range ability other than being a big target. So I had to take a crash course on how to find and use cover. Using JJ for the first time since CBT really helped in that regard, plus streaks can headshot if your flying lol.

TL;DR

Playing other variants/mechs showed me where I had holes in my game and allowed me to grow as a player. As much of a cliche as it is, I L2P. Actually I'm STILL learning to play, but we all are, and I am perfectly ok with that.

edit:spelling I am hungover after all

Edited by Irvine, 06 January 2013 - 11:00 AM.

[Redliner]

It's a money ploy to force you into buying MCs to buy those extra mechs, and mechbays.