22 replies to this topic

[themoob]

themoob, on 18 November 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

People seem to always come up with weird reasons for balancing Gaussapults/AC20apults, when it's in fact so obvious.

When a K2 mounts anything of that size, change the side torso to what the Atlas' RT torso looks like, with that giant ******* gun sticking out of it. Much easier target, makes much more sense, but still a viable build: everyone wins.

I posted this elsewhere, but it'll probably go unnoticed, since hopefully the devs will see this.

It benefits everyone. It benefits the purists and common sense folk who think it's stupid the K2 fires big fluffin' rounds out of tiny little machine gun barrels. It benefits those who think the builds are OP because of the small side torsos by giving them actual decent size torsos. And last of all, the people piloting them (who knows why they do, but they do) can keep piloting them as they always have.

[Kobura]

It's at least worth a try. I'd like if the developers gave more things a try instead of making executive decisions everywhere.

[Vertrucio]

They actually do give things a try, that's what we're here for, it's open beta, not full release.

I gotta admit, I used to think it was a minor problem, but now that people are playing enough to get enough money to equip these combos, it's getting nasty. Had a string of games where a group of 4 players, all in catapults using either all gauss or AC20 in the side torsos can around coring mechs. I even had an organized group take them on, it didn't work.

The "fix" they mention of tuning the gauss to explode isn't going to be enough since those things have full torso armor protecting them, not arm armor.

[Prophet of Entropy]

k2s arent overpowered, being a good shot is. but thats what you get in a player skill based game instead of a gear based game.

[Vertrucio]

Again, please stop dropping these silly non-arguments, trying to sound better than you are.

Two players, both equally good shots, the gauss and ac catapults will have a distinct and pronounced advantage at most match ups.

This is a skill based game, but gear does affect how it works. After all, if it didn't, why would anyone bother trying other weapons, or why put so many different types of weapons and mechs in the game?

Gear helps make the game more interesting than your bog standard FPS game where, just like you say, the only thing that matters is accuracy.

Mechwarrior is more than worrying about accuracy, even though that's a large part of it.

Edited by Vertrucio, 18 November 2012 - 06:40 PM.

[themoob]

Vertrucio, on 18 November 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

The "fix" they mention of tuning the gauss to explode isn't going to be enough since those things have full torso armor protecting them, not arm armor.

It's actually a pretty good fix... the problem still lies in the tiny hitbox that are K2 side torsos. Which is kind of silly considering that the Atlas has a huuuge hit box for it's side torso AC20/Gauss rifle... why should the K2 be any different?

[Bartolomeo]

i made the same post... it just get lost xD




I think is a better solution than starting to make sized critical slot... but that is a good way to make variants more different

[B1R]

Took down 4 AC-20 pults in a match this morning in my cicada....seems to just be a strategy thing. If you charge one head on he's gonna kill you.....so don't do that. Nerf them....nah...they die rather quickly.

[Vertrucio]

I very much doubt that it was 4 at one time, 4 in one match over a lot of time maybe, but 4 experienced players working together, not so much. Perhaps they were new, or sitting on their own, or your teammates were firing on them.

Regardless, one case doesn't make it a trend.

I do think that a fast mech with a smaller hit box, high turn rate, and good armament is the best case scenario for being able to take these out. The cicada is a great mech to do this in. However, lighter mechs will have trouble getting through that armor. And anything with a larger hitbox is going to find itself getting cored way too quickly.

[themoob]

Bartolomeo, on 18 November 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

i made the same post... it just get lost xD




I think is a better solution than starting to make sized critical slot... but that is a good way to make variants more different

THIS! PGI DO THIS!

Awesome work Bart.

[UraniumOverdose]

That would seriously make cats look BAD-A S S.

Edited by UraniumOverdose, 19 November 2012 - 06:39 PM.

[sycocys]

It's confusing if you don't realize at first that the big mounted cannons on their shoulders are not where the cannons are actually mounted - quite defeat-able though once you bypass shooting out the ear cannons.

[CompproB237]

The amount of coding for this as well as circumstantial/equipment-based hitboxes adds a huge amount of complexity to the chassis.

Although, it does present an interesting aspect. Dynamically changing the look of the parts on a mech based on the equipment would be interesting.

I suggested something I thought would work but I don't know if it will solve the issue everyone has with the K2. Just simply, making the hardpoints restrict the number of criticals a weapon can take up to it (similar to MW4) based on the size of the "original" weapon loadout. This would make the K2 only capable of equipping up to dual AC/2s.

Edited by CompproB237, 19 November 2012 - 06:58 PM.

[themoob]

CompproB237, on 19 November 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

The amount of coding for this as well as circumstantial/equipment-based hitboxes adds a huge amount of complexity to the chassis.

Although, it does present an interesting aspect. Dynamically changing the look of the parts on a mech based on the equipment would be interesting.

I suggested something I thought would work but I don't know if it will solve the issue everyone has with the K2. Just simply, making the hardpoints restrict the number of criticals a weapon can take up to it (similar to MW4) based on the size of the "original" weapon loadout.

I don't know if it's nearly as complex as you believe it to be, considering they already do this with the Atlas (SRM rack), the Raven (arm-mounted weapons), the Wang (Ballistic weapon), and probably others. Hell the K2's arms already change depending on what's equipped in them.

[General Taskeen]

This thread certainly needs more attention.

I think modular 3D designs that dynamically affect the hitboxes will be added in time, its just not a very high priority at the moment I imagine. It is semi-present on some Mech's with some weapons. It would definitely add a very unique look to the game's Mechs, since everyone's load-outs are varied.

[Tennex]

this is so much better than a critical hp fix...


make it more vulnerable by increasing hitbox. and it makes sense visually as well as balance wise.

2 birds iwht one stone

Edited by Tennex, 20 January 2013 - 03:23 PM.

[hercules1981]

Tennex, on 20 January 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

this is so much better than a critical hp fix...


make it more vulnerable by increasing hitbox. and it makes sense visually as well as balance wise.

2 birds iwht one stone

I think they will do this in time, not the 1st thing they need to do for sure but in time.At least I hope they do

[Yanlowen Cage]

B1R, on 19 November 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

Took down 4 AC-20 pults in a match this morning in my cicada....seems to just be a strategy thing. If you charge one head on he's gonna kill you.....so don't do that. Nerf them....nah...they die rather quickly.

so basically you took an overly fast mech and keep behnind the pault as much as possible and used the lag shield when you couldn't to take them down. One exploit to beat another? Why hasn't anyone else thought to do that? Wait! everyone has. That is the problem with this game. Best exploiter wins!

[MasterBLB]

What a bunch of bullshits...
I have an experience both as AC20/Gauss Cat owner and its opponent,these Cats though dangerous are fine as they are now.I have to say learn to play guys.

• Charing at these mechs in straight line at front is a stupidity which deserves to be punished hard.
  
• Try to engage these on rough terrain or from a higher position on a hill.Cat K2 has poor torso up move angle,ex on Caustic Valley when a Cat in on slope of the caldera it can't aim at the very top.
  
• Use communication to tell teammates to attack the cat together.While 1 on 1 fight with AC20 Cat is unfavorable even for Atlas,3 opponents at once are almost certain death for it,even if one of them perish.
  
• Remember to attack its cockpit with lasers to blind the driver.
  
• And for the last,DONT run in constant circles around the cat,instead zigzag like hell.This combined with blinging makes aiming for the cat a lot harder.

All who claims they are so overpowered should buy their own K2 and see how REALLY AC20/Gauss Cat is "imbalanced".

[Blue Shadow]

A change to the K2s side torsos is needed, but last i read the devs are planning to make changes to mechs depending on what weapons you install but is not a priority atm.