106 replies to this topic

[JagdCrab]

Taron, on 21 November 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

The new U-AC-5 are exactly as they should be. There is absolutly no need to nerf anything. The U-AC/5 are strong - as they were in the books. But they still have some issues: They can jam for severall seconds, and - if played strong -, they eat ammo faster than ANY other weapon. My U-AC/5-Cat needs 6(!) tonns of ammo to be strong. So, what's the problem? On 6 Tonns, you can have a lot of Lasers and Heat Sinks. And that was only the weight of the Ammo, not counted the weight of the cannons.


....always those whiners ....

I'll remind you how "in the books" Assaults being destroyed with single PPC / SRM strike, books doesn't equal to tech readouts. And trust me, most people doesn't care that you will be out of ammo after you will brutally **** them in couple seconds with UAC's.

[megoblocks]

Taron, on 21 November 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

The new U-AC-5 are exactly as they should be. There is absolutly no need to nerf anything. The U-AC/5 are strong - as they were in the books. But they still have some issues: They can jam for severall seconds, and - if played strong -, they eat ammo faster than ANY other weapon. My U-AC/5-Cat needs 6(!) tonns of ammo to be strong. So, what's the problem? On 6 Tonns, you can have a lot of Lasers and Heat Sinks. And that was only the weight of the Ammo, not counted the weight of the cannons.


....always those whiners ....

Taron, on 21 November 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

The new U-AC-5 are exactly as they should be. There is absolutly no need to nerf anything. The U-AC/5 are strong - as they were in the books. But they still have some issues: They can jam for severall seconds, and - if played strong -, they eat ammo faster than ANY other weapon. My U-AC/5-Cat needs 6(!) tonns of ammo to be strong. So, what's the problem? On 6 Tonns, you can have a lot of Lasers and Heat Sinks. And that was only the weight of the Ammo, not counted the weight of the cannons.


....always those whiners ....

If UAC5s are where they should be, that means every other weapon is nowhere were they should be. Also, you think eating up ammo fast is a bad thing? Think again. It means they're pumping out tremendous damage in a short period of time. I use to love my uac cat last patch when it wasn't liquifying an atlas head on w/ no trouble. I had to think about what I wanted to do, and if I jammed, I had to hightail it quick to unjam. Now, as long as I don't play tank, it's so easy to core a bunch of players I've stopped piloting it altogether. That doesn't mean my ua5 cat is balanced. It means I feel cheesy playing it.

[Taron]

Quote

Think again. It means they're pumping out tremendous damage in a short period of time

That's exactly what the U-AC/5 was made for - doing a lot of damage in a short period of time.

Quote

My U-AC/5-Cat needs 6(!) tonns of ammo to be strong.

Don't forget this one - without enough ammo, the U-AC/5 is wortless, and the ammo is heavy.

Quote

And trust me, most people doesn't care that you will be out of ammo after you will brutally **** them in couple seconds with UAC's.

Well, that's not my problem, it's theirs. Do we really have to discuss any weapon that got stronger by a good(!) patch?
Not only 2 weeks ago, some people did say: "Gauss are too strong". Or they did say "LRMs + Artemis are too strong". Now it's: "U-AC/5 are to strong" - Maybe next time it's Large Lasers are too strong? Or Medium Lasers are too strong? Or my car is too strong? Or: The world do not like me?

....always those whiners ....


Well, what ever, i stop posting in this Forum, cause they often delete Postings for no reason and without sending an message WHY they did.

Edited by Taron, 21 November 2012 - 07:42 PM.

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

Hang on...are people actually complaining about ballistics being OP now?

PS: I don't use UAC5s anymore. Not fast enough for me. GRs and UAC2s all the way!

[JustPyro]

Ok, but if we nerf the UAC, what about those of us that use it singly. It's only "overpowered" when boated... as is an LRM or Streak boat.

BEFORE the LRM bump, I would go around and spot for a buddy with 4 LRM20s. And he would tear up anyone in a couple salvos. Fun to watch; I KNOW it's not fun to be under the crosshair of.

With a mech like the Cataphract with 4 ballistic spots, you're going to get mass amounts of weapons. YES, the UAC when set against many hurts. The same with anything. Treb with 8 or 9 mediums? Will still tear things up. The UAC5 should have the same cycle speed and heat as the the AC5. But jeez, with any change made the crowds go cry OP OP OP! Just relax, and give it a week or two to really see how things play out. Work-arounds are always found to counter the latest big thing.

Finally, ancedotal evidence: on a hot map lie Caustic, in a very cool running mech, I had my UAC5 (I only run one) jam 3 times, on 3 consecutive double fires. That changes the dps a lot.

[h00n]

Not really overpowered, accuracy isn't very good.

They work well in conjunction with llasers.

Punch holes, exploit the holes with lasers.

If they nerf them AGAIN, i'll be kind of miffed.

[EvilCow]

I wonder where they got this idea that the UAC5 should have a faster recycle than the AC5 *without* using the double shot.

In the XML data the values are:

UAC5: 1.1secs
AC5: 1.7secs

[CocoaJin]

I notice that sometimes my double tap is so close together, that the second round is literally riding right on the heels of the first shot...I mean, little to no spacing between the two shots.

I assume thats a latency/lag issue and the double taps are supposed to actually have some spacing?

[CocoaJin]

Ive been running my UAC/5 again for the last two nights. In my opinion, the jamming duration is a bit too short. There needs to be a bit more inconveince involved...try increasing it by 50%.

[Gulinborsti]

I find myself corrected after my first impressions.

Now that the initial hype is gone and people found out that UAC5 bristling cataphracts are not the "I WIN" button they thought (heavy, ammo consuming, occassional jams when you least expect, ...) those guns seem quite balanced and serve their role.

They are extremely powerfull in close range fights and when mounted in bundles, but as long as nothing changes with their targeting (or general targeting for ballistics) they can stay as they are IMHO.

[Slanski]

Wait a second. 1.1s refire and double shot means 9DPS. That is 180% AC20 DPS delivered in 5 damage point parcels. DPS/Weight ratio is completely out of whack. I need to go and test this (I haven't used the UAC5 since patch).

[Hayashi]

Slanski, on 22 November 2012 - 01:55 AM, said:

Wait a second. 1.1s refire and double shot means 9DPS. That is 180% AC20 DPS delivered in 5 damage point parcels. DPS/Weight ratio is completely out of whack. I need to go and test this (I haven't used the UAC5 since patch).

And it's 1 heat per uAC/5 shot. So actually only 4 heat total for 20 damage.

Edited by Hayashi, 22 November 2012 - 02:13 AM.

[VaeVict1s]

people saying it is fine where it is at won't see much difference if it is nerfed as people are saying

increasing jam time to give some reason to not spam it to death and decreasing fire rate from 1.1 to 1.5 would be a great way to balance these without making them useless at all

they would still double fire, still be able to put out very good damage, and stil be a very viable and usable weapon, just would be more comparable to other ballistics

[Stingz]

VaeVict1s, on 22 November 2012 - 04:06 AM, said:

increasing jam time to give some reason to not spam it to death and decreasing fire rate from 1.1 to 1.5 would be a great way to balance these without making them useless at all

Giving it a longer jam than 3-5 seconds is probably enough, since jamming = not shooing = getting shot is pretty bad. Increase the jam chance slightly also, 10% is feels small compared to the DPS on auto/doubetap.

Besides some people exercise restraint for the faster recycle time alone.

Edited by Stingz, 22 November 2012 - 04:25 AM.

[megoblocks]

Taron, on 21 November 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

That's exactly what the U-AC/5 was made for - doing a lot of damage in a short period of time.

Then explain to me how that is a bad thing, because you listed it as a trait against the uac.

[Marla Singer]

my 2 coins
k2 cat, 2xUACs, 200rounds (8tons)

UACs is OP, very close to LRM+artemis buff

Earlier, if you unjam UAC manually with hands (without macro) its takes around 5-10sec,
BUT! - in this time you partially losses control of your mech (aim, line of movement etc.). Its was like pilot get out of his seat, took a wrench and manually tried to remove jammed shell from a gun. As for now you no need to bother about jam, just press fire button and hold it till ******* dies.

Why its bad:
- team with more UACs wins in mostly cases
- tactics is no so important, as before
- more and more matches take 5 or less minutes (less fun)

[MustrumRidcully]

Hayashi, on 21 November 2012 - 04:58 AM, said:

Already recommended 1.25s cooldown, 2 heat per shot, reduction of range to match the AC/5 and a 6.75s jam clearance time with 10% chance to jam. But it seems people don't listen to those who use mathematics, and like to just patch on gut instinct values all the time...

Without looking at anything else, I think they should have made up their mind
Do they want to represent the ultra ACs high fire rate with simply a lower recycle time than the AC/5, or with a special "double shot" mechanic? Currently they are doing both, that can't possibly be a good idea.

And considering what their graphics designer gave us for the looks of the Ultra-AC/5 - I think it simply increasing the rate of fire compared to the AC/5 would be the way to go, instead of having some special double shot mechanic.

Heck, considering that the Ultra AC/5 uses different ammo than the AC/5 and considering its visual design, it should probably fire 3 times as fast as the AC/5 but with a ammo that deals 2/3 as much damage per shot (net still double the AC/5 damage).
(Jamming still necessary, otherwise the weapon can hardly be balanced)

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 22 November 2012 - 04:53 AM.

[Hayashi]

IIRC the doubleshot mechanic was how Ultra AC/5 was supposed to work both in previous games and canonically. The recoil from the first round was supposed to somewhat screw up the aiming for the second, such that using a uAC/5 in Ultra mode would be feasible more or less only in close ranges.

Firing delay and movement still allow for the second shot balancing to happen even without recoil unless your target is stationary.

[CutterWolf]

Introduced in 2640 by the Terran Hegemony. The Ultra Autocannon/5 is an upgraded version of the standard Autocannon/5. Utilizing a different loading mechanism, the Ultra Autocannons are capable of maintaining a substantially increased rate of fire over traditional or LB-X autocannons at the cost of higher heat and the risk of jamming. Of course, the rapid-fire autocannons require a much larger supply of ammunition to maintain their rate of fire. This high dependence on ammunition limits the effectiveness of the weapon. Being of a lower caliber, the Ultra Autocannon/5 has an increased range at the cost of reduced damage over higher-caliber versions.

The UAC-5 is nothing more than a normal AC-5 with a speed loader.

By looking at the above the UAC-5's heat/cooling cycle needs to be looked at. What should be happening is the first round starts the heat/cooling cycle of 1 and the second shot (double tap) interrupts the cool down of the first round and "adds" the heat of the second round on top of what heat has not bled off from the first. So as the weapon continues to fire in the "double tap" mode it produces an accumulative heat effect since the weapon is not allow its normal cooling down phase. In effect the weapon would then become a high heat weapon forcing you to limit your sustained rate of fire to keep from over heating. This change along with a slight increased jam time would correct the OP feel it has now.

[Iron booger]

They havent change a thing with ULTRA AC5's except the jam. Honestly I've spectated alot of players and it is alot like watching someone eat broth with a fork.

You're not getting rick rolled because of "Uac5's are OP." these weapons are more or less the same. You are getting rick rolled because you pilot like you do everything else half arsed. It is hard to consider that the short comming is possibly Your fault, and not a game flaw.

Meh, people use macros, Meh devs, the jam duration is too short, meh they fire to fast, meh meh meh meh OP OP OP OP

Chances are anyone who said the pervious statements is a walking target in ANY Game they play, Well hats off to the drama QUEENS..