262 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

No offense to anyone, but I really hope no one making the game is taking this seriously. Melee weapons in 31st century armoured combat would make Mechwarrior into a laughing stock in my opinion. This would out do the 3rd pseron view for being hideous. 3pv already makes the mechs look tiny as well as ruining countless parts of the game, melee would be brutal.

[Sulf]

I think the important thing to realize with melee and collisions is the ironclad comparison. Two ships. Covered in iron. firing iron balls at eachother. They did nothing to eachother and ended up having retreat and get better weapons before they could be effective against another ship like it.

Now the comparison is this: Mechs use high speed ballistics, lasers, particles cannons and missiles. A mech though big and heavy is so tightly packed with armor that it can basically run into anything. Even another mech. It'd just bounce off.

Now there are limits to this of course. if you step on the mech or swing a giant axe at a mech, It's bound t do some damage. Some mechs even have fists. So you have to imagine that this is the difference between random collisions and precision strikes to cockpits or wrenching internals..

And we do want melee. Give it too us now.

[Solis Obscuri]

I'd honestly be happy just to get collisions back.

Until that point, I think real melee combat is still a far-away dream...

[stjobe]

Johnny Z, on 04 September 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

Arg dont put melee weapons for mechs in, they were not in the original game

I have a 2nd Edition rulebook from 1985 that disagrees. My TRO:3025 from 1986 also disagrees; it does so with the hatchet from the Hatchetman; quite a persuasive argument, I must say.

Fabe, on 08 September 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

Natasha Kerensky wasn't made a clanner she was Born as a clanner. In fact the pretty much all of Wolf's Dragoons where from Clan Wolf on a long term intelligence gathering mission.
http://www.sarna.net...lf%27s_Dragoons

That was a pure ret-con when Clans were introduced in 1990. In Tales of the Black Widow Company (published in 1985), they were just a very cool Merc corp.

...

As for melee, it needs to be in MWO. Kicking, Punching (and using melee weapons), Charging, and DFA were an integral part of combat in the BattleTech Universe and needs to be that in MWO as well.

[Xanquil]

I see melee weapons being added at some point. I also for see a game mode where the object is to punt a spider across a goal line, or for distance and accuracy.

[Johnny Z]

stjobe, on 19 September 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:

I have a 2nd Edition rulebook from 1985 that disagrees. My TRO:3025 from 1986 also disagrees; it does so with the hatchet from the Hatchetman; quite a persuasive argument, I must say.


That was a pure ret-con when Clans were introduced in 1990. In Tales of the Black Widow Company (published in 1985), they were just a very cool Merc corp.

...

As for melee, it needs to be in MWO. Kicking, Punching (and using melee weapons), Charging, and DFA were an integral part of combat in the BattleTech Universe and needs to be that in MWO as well.

Thanks, glad I got to see the original BT, Aerotech, Mechwarrior and the modules then. Seems the mechs from the original bt book are not usable (unseen?), and that somehow the some of the great characters are a silly over powered invasion army's spies now?

Anyway, I really like the idea of the kind of mech sim seen in the video games and hope this is expanded and improved in Mechwarrior Online rather than seeing it look silly by club wielding mechs.

[stjobe]

Johnny Z, on 19 September 2013 - 03:40 AM, said:

Thanks, glad I got to see the original BT, Aerotech, Mechwarrior and the modules then. Seems the mechs from the original bt book are not usable (unseen?), and that somehow the some of the great characters are a silly over powered invasion army's spies now?

Anyway, I really like the idea of the kind of mech sim seen in the video games and hope this is expanded and improved in Mechwarrior Online rather than seeing it look silly by club wielding mechs.

"Silly club wielding mechs" were in the original BT, that's what I'm telling you.

Totally agree on the "silly over powered invasion army's spies" bit though.

[Tander09]

Melee is a must for this game. Me want to kill enemies with mah fists and crush their puny. Cockpits!!!

[Foxfire]

Johnny Z, on 18 September 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

No offense to anyone, but I really hope no one making the game is taking this seriously. Melee weapons in 31st century armoured combat would make Mechwarrior into a laughing stock in my opinion. This would out do the 3rd pseron view for being hideous. 3pv already makes the mechs look tiny as well as ruining countless parts of the game, melee would be brutal.

Melee being brutal is what is supposed to be happening. Melee was a huge part of the world in BT and it is what balanced out clan tech. There are many mechs that are absolutely worthless without the addition of melee.. and some mechs in the game already that are centered around melee(the centurion and especially the Yen Lo Wang, for example).

[KingNobody]

I like the idea of melee combat in MWO. My suggestion for implementation would be that any 'mech with hand actuators could make melee attacks, with weapons being a way to increase the range/damage of those attacks which would cost tonnage and/or crits. Kick could be a separate attack that any 'mech could perform, but that couldn't be modified by weapons.

[stjobe]

KingNobody, on 20 September 2013 - 10:59 PM, said:

I like the idea of melee combat in MWO. My suggestion for implementation would be that any 'mech with hand actuators could make melee attacks, with weapons being a way to increase the range/damage of those attacks which would cost tonnage and/or crits. Kick could be a separate attack that any 'mech could perform, but that couldn't be modified by weapons.

The BattleTech melee rules alread give a penalty to punching for not having lower arm actuators, and without hand actuators you cannot use melee weapons (which increase the damage of a punch to that of a kick - tonnage/5 instead of tonnage/10 - so are well worth having).

The rules are all there, it's just a question of how to implement them in a way that fits well into MWO. My suggestion is, and has been, to just make them "regular" attacks; press 'p' to make your 'mech swing a punch, 'k' to make it kick, 'c' to make it charge, or 'd' to make a DFA. If the attack connects, determine damage according to the BT rules.

[Foxfire]

DFA is a different beast, really.

It shouldn't be a 'push a button to attempt' type concept. First of all, they really should implement multi-vector JJ's and allow people to do DFA on their own skills with JJ's. This includes the more 'advanced' JJ's that spiders are supposed to have that make them the premier jumping mech.

I think they can really learn from Skyrim on how to animate the system to visually work and even in how to implement the system for melee attack.. and use k for kicking.

Then it is mostly a question of if you make it something that you can hot key to initiate an attack or if it is a 'toggle' to enter a 'melee' mode.

[Zerberus]

stjobe, on 19 September 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:

That was a pure ret-con when Clans were introduced in 1990. In Tales of the Black Widow Company (published in 1985), they were just a very cool Merc corp.

OT, but one could argue that we "just weren`t supposed to know it yet", as is so often done when something is added on to a product that everyone thought was finished. Unfortunately, it`s hard to disprove that.

Edited by Zerberus, 21 September 2013 - 05:59 AM.

[Tander09]

stjobe, on 21 September 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

The rules are all there, it's just a question of how to implement them in a way that fits well into MWO. My suggestion is, and has been, to just make them "regular" attacks; press 'p' to make your 'mech swing a punch, 'k' to make it kick, 'c' to make it charge, or 'd' to make a DFA. If the attack connects, determine damage according to the BT rules.

they need to make sure lights ACTUALLY DO SOME SERIOUS DAMAGE to other mechs or a melee weapon that is like big metal boxing gloves to make more damage when punching for lights only...

[stjobe]

Tander09, on 21 September 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

they need to make sure lights ACTUALLY DO SOME SERIOUS DAMAGE to other mechs or a melee weapon that is like big metal boxing gloves to make more damage when punching for lights only...

The most damaging attack possible in BattleTech is a charge from a light 'mech... Just saying.

[Hythos]

Tander09, on 21 September 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

they need to make sure lights ACTUALLY DO SOME SERIOUS DAMAGE to other mechs or a melee weapon that is like big metal boxing gloves to make more damage when punching for lights only...

I'd imagine a hatchet would do more damage than gloves The main reason is the mechanical advantage through leverage and mass, etc.

stjobe, on 19 September 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:

As for melee, it needs to be in MWO. Kicking, Punching (and using melee weapons), Charging, and DFA were an integral part of combat in the BattleTech Universe and needs to be that in MWO as well.

And pushing: destabilize and possible knockdown; at the least, charging, Death From Above, and pushing should force units from where they previously were - IE, off of a cliff.

[Sephlock]

[Armored Yokai]

its already in development look in upcoming features

[Jon Gotham]

Hatamoto Chi+ sword=very honourable=MC for PGI.

[Christof Romulus]

Melee attacks are just part of Battletech.

Hand actuators are mandatory components currently, so mechs that have hands should be getting the bonus for the penalty - melee attacks.