289 replies to this topic

[Streeter]

Splitpin, on 22 November 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

but a mech with huge easy to hit ears and a MAX range of 270m is far from invincible. If you let him get within that 270m whose fault is that, not the game's imho.

played about 20 or so games with the streak cat, no deaths and have yet to have even one of the ears knocked off. not sure why people think they are so easy to take off? or perhaps Ive just been crazy lucky with endless low level opponents.

as for short range that everyone keeps bringing up. A. radar is line of site only, B. enemy team doesnt even know your existance till spotted. It really doesnt take much of a pilot to hide behind a building or hill and ambush lights/ mediums, the streak cat does ~80kph, good luck getting away!

[Video Gamer]

Splitpin, on 22 November 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

They are, and apologies for introducing facts into this discussion , but to quote the dev engineer Thomas Dziegielewski says in the thread http://mwomercs.com/...0/page__st__240

" Yes AMS works against SSRM.
As of 1.050 SSRMS2 have 1 hitpoint. AMS does 2 damage per second. So if a SSRMS volley flies towards the target for more than a second both missiles will be intercepted. Max range is 270m Speed is 200. "

Thank you for clarifying, didn't realize that a dev had commented about the streaks and ams in another thread. I was going off what several people had said during the match. My initial understanding was that ams applied to streaks, they just had me second guessing my assumption.

In regards to the popularity of the streak cats just the past few matches i've played before logging off for the night, they are definately showing up more often than they were just last week even. Usually there ends up at least being one on both teams, though sometimes as many as 4 in a single match which just seems a bit odd.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Video Gamer, on 23 November 2012 - 12:28 AM, said:

In regards to the popularity of the streak cats just the past few matches i've played before logging off for the night, they are definately showing up more often than they were just last week even. Usually there ends up at least being one on both teams, though sometimes as many as 4 in a single match which just seems a bit odd.

Oh, but haven't you heard? There's nothing wrong with streaks at all, they're actually underpowered! A weapon you don't have to aim and hits every time is not a problem in an FPS game of skill. So say the streak defense force choir.

.

Edited by 5th Fedcom Rat, 23 November 2012 - 02:40 AM.

[Lykaon]

Prosperity Park, on 21 November 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

This thread is specifically for those who turn their Cats into "Streak SRM6" boats (3 streak 2's per arm).

They are very fun and easy to kill from 350 meters, but it's more fun to shoot their ears off and make them get angry at themselves for not mounting backup lasers.

A1 cats have no energy slots only 6 missile slots so they actually can't load any lasers even if they wanted to.

And I disagree that the 270m range on streaks is a severe limitation when mounted on a mech that can break 80kph in the case of A1 cats,add in an elite speed tweak unlock and those 315 xl engines move them plenty fast enough to close the distance.

Blowing off the launchers sounds so simple except you are failing to take into account those launchers have 40 armor each plus internals.All the while you are having to carefully aim at a specific location on a dodging mech running at over 80kph and/or jumping out of torso weapon arcs.The crutchkitty gets to aim vaguely in your direction and without fail lands 30 damage on target every 3 seconds.

Congratz you have finally done enough damage to de-ear one bank of streaks.In the meantime the crutchkitty has poured 90+ damage into your mech and you still have 3 launchers dishing out damage equal to a gauss rifle to deal with.

I'm not seeing any of this as easy for anyone except the crutchkitty pilot who gets to with nearly no marksmanship dish out bucket loads of DPS.

I would give you 200:1 odds of seeing at least 1 streakcat on each and every drop you are on.(I am being generous here I would be suprised if you didn't find 2 per side on most matches)

Why is this? because it is currently the mech of choice to win with the least effort possible.

[Omega Deity]

zenstrata, on 22 November 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

I am not going to get into an e-peen waving contest. But I can say that my suggestions do work fine. If they did not, I would not post them. I have no hidden agenda here. If a weapon really is overpowered I will say so. I think streaks are fine where they are at right now. I have no problems with them. But then again I have problems with very little.

I have been playing this game for many months now. And even back when streaks were always hitting center torso I could Still reliably defeat streak cats with my Atlas. When I heard a light say one was on the other team, I would purposefully hunt it out and crush it to help out my light pilots. This is a Team game. Use your mech for what it is good at. Contrary, when I get a good light pilot on my butt, I have to call for help from my team because my mech has a hard time with them.

Right now I think Lights are overpowered because they can't fall over and run willy-nilly all over the place at full speed, bumping into things without worry, fighting right on top of my feet where I can't properly target them. I personally can't wait for knockdown to come back. Right now light pilots think they are gods because they have both lag shield, and can't ever fall down. I suspect that most of the whining right now about streaks comes from these same light pilots.

When stats are made public it will be entertaining to see which mechs they drive most and relate that information to their chosen forum posts.

And streaks ARE subject to AMS. Its just that ams can only shoot down a limited number of them before it is overwhelmed. Also ams does not activate when the missile is fired very closely to you. If you stay further away, you will see your ams will start shooting down some of those streaks.

Simply put, I'm calling BS on you. If you think alone in an Atlas you stand a chance against a decent Streak Cat pilot you need to share what you're smokin' with the rest of us.

Here's what's going to happen, you're going to try to engage that streak cat at range, the decent streak cat pilot knows this and is going to zig zag from cover to cover to stop you from softening him up. Then he's going to get close enough to use his missiles and that's when the "fun" begins for you. He's not going to fire salvos of 12 Streak SRMs at you and trade fire. He's going to set his group to chain fire and begin 2 at a time cycling through each of the 6 pairs of SSRMs. You're going to realize you can't hit him because your cockpit is shaking from constant bombardment, it's not going to hurt much at first. you may even land a few hits of your own in between getting rocked. Then it starts to happen, your CT/RT/LT start changing colors and you realize "Oh crap, my armor's seriously getting FARKED" and you're going to try and turn away and get some distance...only you're in an ATLAS and you can't outrun the streak cat. You have two choices, 1.) Call for backup and admit to the world that you CANT take down a Streak Cat solo and there IS a problem when a Heavy Mech can out-brawl an Assault brawler mech or 2.) You die, and realize your folley. In either case, your assertion has been disproved and if you'd like to meet me on the field 1 vs 1 I will prove it to you as MANY times as you like.

EDIT: Oh, btw your lovely Single/Dual AMS setup you think will save you won't have time to react because I'll be close enough to where it won't have a chance to intercept enough of my missiles to allow you to accurately target my FULLY Armored ears.

Edited by Omega Deity, 23 November 2012 - 03:22 AM.

[Blark]

I was actually quite happy with streaks before the recent buff/fix: They were still useful against lights but subpar compared with aimed weapons (the way it should be imo).

Now the obnoxious no-skill-yawn gameplay is in once again..
Don't get me wrong, I have a streak cat myself, but I can't bare playing it more then a few rounds.. its ridiculously effective yet so incredibly boring to play.. it sucks all the fun out of mwo for me.

But hey, thats only my opinion.. never liked auto-aim weapons in any game really.

[Mr Steinbrenner]

Omega Deity, on 23 November 2012 - 03:18 AM, said:

Simply put, I'm calling BS on you. If you think alone in an Atlas you stand a chance against a decent Streak Cat pilot you need to share what you're smokin' with the rest of us.

Here's what's going to happen, you're going to try to engage that streak cat at range, the decent streak cat pilot knows this and is going to zig zag from cover to cover to stop you from softening him up. Then he's going to get close enough to use his missiles and that's when the "fun" begins for you. He's not going to fire salvos of 12 Streak SRMs at you and trade fire. He's going to set his group to chain fire and begin 2 at a time cycling through each of the 6 pairs of SSRMs. You're going to realize you can't hit him because your cockpit is shaking from constant bombardment, it's not going to hurt much at first. you may even land a few hits of your own in between getting rocked. Then it starts to happen, your CT/RT/LT start changing colors and you realize "Oh crap, my armor's seriously getting FARKED" and you're going to try and turn away and get some distance...only you're in an ATLAS and you can't outrun the streak cat. You have two choices, 1.) Call for backup and admit to the world that you CANT take down a Streak Cat solo and there IS a problem when a Heavy Mech can out-brawl an Assault brawler mech or 2.) You die, and realize your folley. In either case, your assertion has been disproved and if you'd like to meet me on the field 1 vs 1 I will prove it to you as MANY times as you like.

EDIT: Oh, btw your lovely Single/Dual AMS setup you think will save you won't have time to react because I'll be close enough to where it won't have a chance to intercept enough of my missiles to allow you to accurately target my FULLY Armored ears.

man how about lights taking down anything 1v1? now that is true bs. good streak pilot will never even bother 1v1ing a good atlas pilot. they may try but its usually not worth it. plus true 1v1 does not happen to much these days.

[Hakkukakt]

yeah .. the right go out ... light pilot seem finding normal that they can put down an atlas all alone ... but for a streakcat it is not allowed ... What's the matters ?

stop whining and go play

[Dar_Veider]

First of all, sorry for my english...

I never used the streakcat in 3 months of closed beta. But now, with no fisics, no colisions and with the lag problems light mechs are OP and the game is completly different.

I made my streakcat 2 days ago... When fisics come back to MWO I play another mechs... With present situation I only play with my cent-A with 3 streaks, my H-SP and streakcat...

[KKRonkka]

Quote

They also happen to be the only weapon that's not effected by the terribad netcode,

And here's the reason why our group always has one streak cat. I play as streak cat and my main priority is to counter 140kph moving Jenners that are almost impossible to destroy otherwise with other weapons (lag difference+netcode make hitting them very tricky). It's a quarantee that battle isn't too one sided. A patch ago it wasn't too effective, patch before that this was a real killer and it's that again.

Last patch seriously buffed streaks AND added module/beagle buffs which is a really, really bad thing, as damage of 700 per round can be expected. Think about it: 360 degree targeting lock + with BEAGLE (I presume) one can lock targets which are in shut down mode (nice counter to streaks-only mech!). I would have been satisfied with lower damage AND 100 % hit rate to targets (clear vision, no obstacles etc) as missiles spread the damage to different parts of the mech.

It would be good to a) reduce damage, b ) reduce efective range or c) increase heat of SSRMs to balance this build.

Pros: Full armour, jump jets (1 enough, not required to stack), low heat caused by SSRMs, minimum speed of 64+kph, damage of SSRMs, lag/netcode wont affect, AMS usually wont have time to react in time to counter missiles, targets cockpit shake

Cons: increased locking time to target, without modules etc target lock is easily lost (fast moving target/obstacles), missile pods visible targets (although have maximun of 40 armour points)

For example fights near buildings/ice cave are difficult as target can shoot you and retreat before you can even lock them. On the other hand small hills and open space battles are too easy to streaker as it can jump and follow target from air, blazing missiles from above. I have seen battles where streak dominates and battles where experienced enemies shoot my missile pods, first reducing damage to 1/2 and finally shooting the last one too, rendering C1 completely useless. Depends on enemy but streak in general is way too powerful as it is now.

Those QQing about lore friendly builds... "Abusing" loadouts can go to funny extends. one friend made a XL engine C1 build with 6 SRM6 which was capable of killing every mech with two salvos, it was hilarious.

Edited by KKRonkka, 23 November 2012 - 04:18 AM.

[Omega Deity]

Mr Steinbrenner, on 23 November 2012 - 03:31 AM, said:

man how about lights taking down anything 1v1? now that is true bs. good streak pilot will never even bother 1v1ing a good atlas pilot. they may try but its usually not worth it. plus true 1v1 does not happen to much these days.

I agree with you, it's often not worth it to try and solo an Atlas because it has A TON of armor to get through to get to the yummy explosive core, the thing is though it CAN, it's just a matter of time and inevitability and unless that Atlas can get help from another source it doesn't stand a chance once it's been engaged. I just LOVE how people always claim that they can single handedly solve a problem, and then when they're challenged/shown they're mistaken they ALWAYS fall back on the "It's a team game...herp that's why you have teammates...derp"

The big difference is the usage of a streak cat by a novice pilot vs the usage of a streak cat by an experienced one. An experienced pilot knows the limitations of his mech and is going to play in a manner that does not expose them to manipulation.

Hint, if you see a streak-cat b-lining straight at an Atlas, he's likely a novice pilot. Successful fighting is about engaging when you're at your strongest and they're at their weakest. Here's the thing though, an Atlas is supposed to be King-of-the-brawlers and a mech that was originally intended as a long range fire support mech should NOT be able to obliterate it when it's in its element and it has been repeatedly shown that it can do just that. Simply turning on chain firing and single clicking should not = a kill against the strongest brawler in the game.

Edited by Omega Deity, 23 November 2012 - 04:24 AM.

[MWHawke]

Streeter, on 21 November 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

hey if thats the way it is, all good Ill park the jenner and bring out the A1. Im not super awesome man at this game but good luck to you if you think you can dodge streaks the way it is now.

Sorry mate, but too many light mech pilots complain their mechs ought to be able to take on heavies and that is a balanced game. That is not the way lights were designed. They are designed as scouts. Legendary light mech pilots are recognized for how good their piloting skill is.

Didn't mean to jump down your throat but light mech pilots should realize the limitations of their mechs. So too heavies that their mechs are not fast and have less mobility than lights and not complain when their LRMs can't hit lights as much as they want.

[Suki]

Video Gamer, on 23 November 2012 - 12:28 AM, said:

Thank you for clarifying, didn't realize that a dev had commented about the streaks and ams in another thread. I was going off what several people had said during the match. My initial understanding was that ams applied to streaks, they just had me second guessing my assumption.

In regards to the popularity of the streak cats just the past few matches i've played before logging off for the night, they are definately showing up more often than they were just last week even. Usually there ends up at least being one on both teams, though sometimes as many as 4 in a single match which just seems a bit odd.

Why is it odd to have 2-4 Cats in a battle and abolutely normal 8-10 Cataprakts?

[MWHawke]

stjobe, on 21 November 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

A single SSRM-2 isn't really worth taking, two are okay, three are powerful, and six are quite nasty. I regularly run a COM-2D with 3xSSRM-2, and it shreds armour like nobody's business.

But my 3xMPL COM-1B actually has a higher alpha, and my LL-equipped COM-1D can actually kill StreakCats from outside their engagement range - and run away if it needs to.

When I see a StreakCat in my Commando I do not engage it right away. Instead I call it out, call in LRMs or long-range direct fire on it, wait until it's engaged with something else or just has its back turned. *Then* I engage. If it takes an interest in me, I disengage using my speed and the environment. I circle around and make a new assessment of the situation and if it looks good, I engage again, otherwise I look for another target.

So the problem as I see it isn't really with SSRM-2s, or even with StreakCats per se, but with people engaging the StreakCats on the Cat's terms. As a light pilot I learned a long time ago to never get into fair fights.

siLve00, on 21 November 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

np i will rip your team apart with my jenner.. and visit you in my base when your out of ammo... then i shot your left leg.. your right arm your left arm ... and well then simple kill you.

or i run into you.. jump over you.. dash away behind a hill .. and come later to you just to remove one of your arms...

again its skill involved.. a very good streakcat player would know how to conquer it.. but.. well a good jenner pilot knows how to disappear... 1st rule for lights : make them fight your way .. not the other way arround.

Agree to both of you. Great tactics!

[MWHawke]

CYBRN4CR, on 21 November 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

Streaks should never miss. That is their nature as per canon. PGI simply fixed their high miss rate, so that they should hit if you have a good lock.

By that logic, the below suggestion would be an EXCELLENT way to help reduce the QQing and add some "skill" into the role.



On top of this, I would suggest fanning out the missiles of every volley (much like regular SRMs do) and have them target arms and legs on top of the torsos, so that it's harder to just unload a surprise alpha of concentrated streaks into the torsos of every mech. This is canon because Streaks only guaranteed a hit, but it didn't say WHERE each missile hit. You might hit the arms or legs or even the head on top of the chance of hitting the torsos. Spreading out SSRM targeting so they hit the side torsos not just the CT is a good start, but their concentrated damage in only three locations needs to be adjusted further to have them not be completely OP WITHIN 270m. Especially while we only have SSRM2s and not 4s and 6s in 9 years.

Correction: Inner Sphere Streak 4s and 6s in 9 years. Clan Streak 4s and 6s will most likely be available between now and then. Mixed-tech or Clan specific use is indeterminate.

POssibly the damage should be spread in 5 point clusters in random locations, limited to a spread nearby where the launcher targeted in the first place?

[MWHawke]

Arborean, on 22 November 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

As a Cicada Pilot, I fear streaks like nothing else. I have no defense against them except to run away. If I were to turn and fight, I would be highly unlikely to kill the aggressor before they kill me. I don't have too much of a problem with this becuase the game is balanced. What justifies streaks is that they balance-out fast movers that can now run rampant without having to worry about tripping. What I find regrettable is that IGP is balancing the game by adding a weapon that requires no skill. If tripping were to be brought back, there would be no need for streaks. This being said, I understand that they are canon, and therefore have to be represented somehow...

To pre-empt arguments comparing streaks to LRMs, I will say this: A good pilot can avoid damage from LRMs at any range. Close up, they don't hit, and when they are in range, you can hide behind something. But this is not the case with Streaks - you can't duck behind a building fast enough if you are soloing someone and hoping for a skill-based dogfight. At close range, the effect of Streaks is the same as that of a small auto-tracking laser; and I suspect that auto-tracking lasers would cause something of an uproar.

Streaks were made to kill lights.

[Vincent Lynch]

streak cats are best downed with LRMboats (maybe with medium mechs as spotters; a centurion with a 240 engine has about the same speed as a catapult with a 315XL, for example), or by mechs with decent medium-short range firepower (gauss, energy boats), which is, medium to heavy brawlers.
streak cats feel OP only to light mechs. of course because they are the most dangerous mech builds to them. but only to them.
also, maybe to slow assaults who don't have the torso twist speed tweak and are bad marksmen.
If you kill an Atlas with a streak cat in 1-1, you are probably just the better pilot.

It's the paper-rock-scissors principle at work.
Tactics, people.
To every build there's another build which is dangerous to it, and that's what makes the game interesting.

Edited by Vincent Lynch, 23 November 2012 - 04:37 AM.

[Mu]

They're even annoying in my brawler atlas, at least when there's more than one chainfiring and I don't have them cornered in a cave or valley. Cockpit just becomes a pile of smoke and explosions and all I can do is aim in their general direction while they are free to spaz out/dodge/weave all they want since they can maintain their lock briefly when not facing me.

Without resorting to 'just fight outside 270m' far the closest thing to a 'natural enemy' of the streak cat I've made was my AWS-9M. Gave it 3 streaks of its own, 3 LLs and a ML for backup. It has half the damage output in streaks but they are far less vulnerable, and the LLs can dissect the ears extremely quickly (plus they have much longer range than streaks). It is much heavier armored and just as fast, if not faster than most catapults (385XL).

[Lykaon]

zenstrata, on 22 November 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

And streaks ARE subject to AMS. Its just that ams can only shoot down a limited number of them before it is overwhelmed. Also ams does not activate when the missile is fired very closely to you. If you stay further away, you will see your ams will start shooting down some of those streaks.

Streak speed is 200 meters per second leaving AMS at max range of streaks bearly enough time to shoot 2 missiles down.At under 200m nothing happens AMS shoots down exactaly nothing.

So 71m window to maybe shoot down 2 missiles under optimal conditions?I suppose that is technicaly effected but not any where near even slightly effective.

One big issue I see with streaks in MWo is they can not be allowed to operate at all like the table top weapon system.
The reason is a very simple one.In this online game there are no rolls to hit or rolls to assign hit locations.These two factors severly limited streak boating within the table top game rules.

Let's use the A1 catapult as an example.

Table top rules: Make 6 seperate rolls to hit.A fairly average to hit number for the table top game for firing at pointblank range at a moderatley speedy target while moving yourself (conditions similar to average MWo combats) would be around 8.

Four gunnery skill.
+2 for target movement.
+2 for attacker's movement.

Fewer than half the missiles will strike the target.

Meanwhile in MWo with the exspectations that streaks will hit 100% of the time with 100% of the missiles when the target is locked means the "gunner" needs to keep a curser on target for 2 seconds to maintain a lock and have every single launcher hit with 100% accuracy.Much much easyer than rolling six times to get eight or better on two D6s.

There is a distinct lack of ballancing mechanics when it comes to streaks in MWo.If we are to expect weapon performances to reflect the table top game then we need to also account for the mitigating factors that apply to those weapons sytems.

If players want 100% accuracy with 100% of the ordnance when streaks are fired at locked on targets (table top game performance) then we need to also intergrate some limiting factor that accounts for aprox 50% "miss" rate for table top streaks under what is fairly common use.

The only reason there is an expectation of streaks having this 100% hit rate is the table top game.We are of course forgetting the radically different play of a twitch based game compared to the table top game.

Simply put you can have cake and eat it too right now.

[Chrithu]

Well.

Is the Streakcat a lame build?

In my view yes. Anything that removes the need for aiming from a multiplayer game is lame stuff in my eyes and I don't use such cheap builds.

Is the Streakcat OP?

NO. It's biggest weakness is range. Scout it. Shoot it from the distance and thus take it out of the game before it can harm you. Even PUGs can do that.

Still I generally view ppl piloting that derpbuild as the least skilled scum running around on the maps of MWO. But that's just my opinion.