67 replies to this topic

[DeadlyNerd]

Roland, on 11 February 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

There is nothing wrong with the current UAC implementation. It's one of the strongest weapons in the game.

it's the randomness that's wrong. Some people may get 10 shots in a row and some may not get even 3. Making the UAC have an incremental jam chance would remove the dice roll effect that the UAC has now.

And yes, PGI are actually against dice roll effects since they are strongly against a chance for reactors to go critical. I just don't understand why they are blatantly dismissing a dice roll effect that's already in the game, after making such a statement.

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 11 February 2013 - 02:23 PM.

[focuspark]

Honestly, I don't like the dependency on heat. Heat is generally the culprit of energy weapons, which means we're giving the uAC5 a free pass. I'd rather see an increased chance per shot taken without jamming or cooling down.

1st shot: 0%
2nd shot: 10%
3rd shot: 25%
4th shot: 50%
5th shot (and beyond): 90%

Such that a UAC5 almost never gets more than 5 shots off, but can fairly reliably get 2-3 shots off without a hitch.

[DeadlyNerd]

focuspark, on 11 February 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Honestly, I don't like the dependency on heat. Heat is generally the culprit of energy weapons, which means we're giving the uAC5 a free pass. I'd rather see an increased chance per shot taken without jamming or cooling down.

1st shot: 0%
2nd shot: 10%
3rd shot: 25%
4th shot: 50%
5th shot (and beyond): 90%

Such that a UAC5 almost never gets more than 5 shots off, but can fairly reliably get 2-3 shots off without a hitch.

kind of boils down to shots fired in the end, if that's the only weapon fired, but yeah this is what I was talking about.

[focuspark]

DeadlyNerd, on 11 February 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

kind of boils down to shots fired in the end, if that's the only weapon fired, but yeah this is what I was talking about.

Oh I mean per UAC5, not across all weapons.

[DeadlyNerd]

focuspark, on 11 February 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

Oh I mean per UAC5, not across all weapons.

yes yes, just noticed that the op suggested it around general mech heat and I failed to explain myself. sadly I can't link my suggestion anymore...

[blinkin]

i am suggesting a weighted random system where the odds are controlled by the player.

i will admit this does not account well for mechs that boat UAC5, but i have seen very few designs that effectively do this without having other weapons to fall back on (mostly energy weapons). also unless you are firing just one UAC5 the heat does build up at a steady pace. this is easily countered through mech design, but it forces these players to at least consider their heat scale.

on a side note this also makes flamers more important.

[kiltymonroe]

Since UAC/5s are so low-heat, making their jam chance heat-dependent is only going to encourage boating, not discourage it, because nobody will want to carry heat-generating weapons with them. 3x UAC/5s can be made heat-neutral just with the 10 sinks integral to the engine after getting the DHS upgrade.

If this change was implemented I would absolutely run around in a Muromets with 3xUAC/5 only and double-fire all day every day.

Edited by kiltymonroe, 12 February 2013 - 11:24 AM.

[blinkin]

kiltymonroe, on 12 February 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

Since UAC/5s are so low-heat, making their jam chance heat-dependent is only going to encourage boating, not discourage it, because nobody will want to carry heat-generating weapons with them. 3x UAC/5s can be made heat-neutral just with the 10 sinks integral to the engine after getting the DHS upgrade.

If this change was implemented I would absolutely run around in a Muromets with 3xUAC/5 only and double-fire all day every day.

i suspect you would be carrying lots of ammo to support this, so i think that ammo explosions will effectively counter any ballistics boating, but i won't argue that this wouldn't make boating easier.

Edited by blinkin, 12 February 2013 - 12:15 PM.

[MechWarrior849305]

focuspark, on 11 February 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Honestly, I don't like the dependency on heat. Heat is generally the culprit of energy weapons, which means we're giving the uAC5 a free pass. I'd rather see an increased chance per shot taken without jamming or cooling down.

1st shot: 0%
2nd shot: 10%
3rd shot: 25%
4th shot: 50%
5th shot (and beyond): 90%

Such that a UAC5 almost never gets more than 5 shots off, but can fairly reliably get 2-3 shots off without a hitch.

Well, you just have described Rotary AC http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rotary_AC-2 for example

[focuspark]

DuoAngel, on 12 February 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

Well, you just have described Rotary AC http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rotary_AC-2 for example

I guess I did, but given the current mechanics of the UAC they've basically made a rotary AC.

[blinkin]

bump

[blinkin]

bump

[VXJaeger]

I don't care if PGI took away all jamming from UAC5. Those cannons have already disappeared from matches, and Hero-Muromets have become rare sight 'cause UAC was it's best armament.

Thanks a ******' lot.

[Sigismund]

I tried the trial Cataphract before. It jammed after the second shot 3 times in a row. A system using consecutive shots fired would be much more desirable. You don't see many UA/5's because any mech that can mount one is probably carrying 2 gauss rifles. Though I have seen a lot of Atlases using 2 UA/5's and you can never tell if they're going to kill you in seconds or jam embarrassingly in front of everyone.

[blinkin]

VXJaeger, on 19 February 2013 - 04:39 AM, said:

I don't care if PGI took away all jamming from UAC5. Those cannons have already disappeared from matches, and Hero-Muromets have become rare sight 'cause UAC was it's best armament.

Thanks a ******' lot.

so we shouldn't bother trying to fix something because it has gone out of use because it was broken?

[focuspark]

TLDR...

My suggestion for UAC mechanics. Allow up to three shot, then jam after the third. If a cooldown happens, reset the counter. Unjamming should take as long as a cooldown, then require a cooldown before firing can commence.

Basically, remove the randomness from the weapon.

Skilled pilots will shoot, shoot, cooldown - repeat. Unskilled pilots will either shoot, cooldown - repeat OR shoot, shoot, shoot, unjam, cooldown.

Either way pilots have options, the gun weapon predictable, the weapon becomes easier to balance.

edit: I did read the OP, but I'm of the mind that and random chance will be seen as broken when experienced

Edited by focuspark, 26 February 2013 - 12:49 PM.

[General Taskeen]

Autocannon's seriously need a 'heat soak,' implementation. The longer you fire it, the more the barrel heats up, when the barrel itself reaches critical heat the gun 'jams.' Don't fire so often and you'll never jam, so in theory, it makes more skill based than introducing random % to shooting your gun.

Ultra's should also be redeveloped so they do not have the double-shot + better cool down. They should instead fire faster (2x better fire rate) than its regular non-ultra counterpart. I've already said it before, and I know it'll happen, but the Clan UAC/10's and UAC/20's are going to be a nightmare within the current design implementation of Ultra's.

[focuspark]

General Taskeen, on 26 February 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Ultra's should also be redeveloped so they do not have the double-shot + better cool down. They should instead fire faster (2x better fire rate) than its regular non-ultra counterpart. I've already said it before, and I know it'll happen, but the Clan UAC/10's and UAC/20's are going to be a nightmare within the current design implementation of Ultra's.

^^ This. I'll take it a step further and suggest that UAC should have a longer cooldown than stock AC does, but the UAC can refire without cooling down. Makes is a versatile weapon, but not a straight upgrade.

Seriously... when will the devs/designer understand how to do this?

[blinkin]

General Taskeen, on 26 February 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Autocannon's seriously need a 'heat soak,' implementation. The longer you fire it, the more the barrel heats up, when the barrel itself reaches critical heat the gun 'jams.' Don't fire so often and you'll never jam, so in theory, it makes more skill based than introducing random % to shooting your gun.

Ultra's should also be redeveloped so they do not have the double-shot + better cool down. They should instead fire faster (2x better fire rate) than its regular non-ultra counterpart. I've already said it before, and I know it'll happen, but the Clan UAC/10's and UAC/20's are going to be a nightmare within the current design implementation of Ultra's.

i think almost all clan tech would break the current system entirely, but that is a rant for another thread.

[General Taskeen]

blinkin, on 26 February 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

i think almost all clan tech would break the current system entirely, but that is a rant for another thread.

Its not that its Clan Tech, I'm just saying the soonest you will see an UAC/10 or 20 is the Clan version. IS and Clan Ultra's are identical in damage, and function, except the Clan versions simply weight less and use less crit space. Only some Clan weapons have better damage, Autocannon's do not fit that category.

A current UAC/5 can shoot 2 shells that do 5 damage each (essentially making double double better fire rate, since it can dish out double damage for an even better cool down makes little sense and is also why we have a stupid design element involving a percentage chance to jam).

A UAC/10 or 20 under this design priniciple (no matter if it is IS or Clan) means a UAC/10 will fire 2 shells that do 10 damage and a UAC/20 will fire 2 shells that do 20 damage each. That is just bonkers. Just having 2 CUAC/20's on a Mech (IS or Clan) means an amazing, potential of 80 damage alpha.

Edited by General Taskeen, 26 February 2013 - 01:08 PM.