42 replies to this topic

[Sug]

TLDR - Increase the speed at which LRMs travel and increase the cooldown of the weapon to compensate.


I use my founder's Catapult almost exclusively. 90% of the time I play it as an LRM boat. Been playing for months now so I've seen most of the LRM adjustments they've implemented to try to balance them.

Something that's always bothered me was how "floaty" LRMs feel. They just sorta hang in the air too long for my tastes. It makes targeting anything but an unaware stationary target over 400m hard to hit. Especially now with the incoming missile warning people get as soon as you launch.

Now I'm not saying LRMs are useless or calling for a massive buff like when artemis first appeared (that was ridiculous). I'm glad that people can actually duck and cover now so they don't get splashed by LRMs as soon as they poke out their heads.

I was bored tonight so i tried to find out how fast LRMs and SRMs go. Basically I aimed at a patch of dirt roughly 1000m away (1003m) and timed how long it took from launch to impact and then did some math. For SRMs target was 270m away.

10 trials each.

LRMs took 10 sec to impact the target.
SRMs took 0.80 sec to impact the target. Lowered distance to 150m = 0.5 sec to impact


1000/10 = 100m per sec = 360kph
150m*2 = 300m 0.5sec*2 = 1 sec yadda yadda 300m in 1 sec = 1080kph

Speed of LRMs = 360kph
Speed of SRMs = 1080

A pretty big difference.

At max range for LRMs 10 sec is a long, LONG, time for someone to react and duck. With the change to the angle of the flight path of LRMs this makes it very difficult to hit a target at long range.

I'm thinking increase the speed of LRMs to about 720kph. Double speed. This will let them impact at max range in 5 sec. It might be necessary to increase the cd of LRM weapons by a second, maybe two to compensate the for the new speed.

[mattkachu]

Very noticeable for people so far back, they're in a different time zone. Prolly not so much if you're 300m away.

I think this is intentional to use LRMs as a support with other weapons to slowly draw closer to an enemy and finish it off. At ~400 i think it feels about right. It gives people enough time to start to dodge for cover, but if they are in the open, they'll get hit

[MoonUnitBeta]

I remember hearing someone say that Artemis increases their travel speed, is this true?

Edit: Maybe this means more testing for OP *sinister cackle*

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 22 November 2012 - 10:04 PM.

[Shiney]

If you've been piloting LRM boats for a while you'll know it's much more useful for the team to move up and be perhaps 100 meters behind the front line, jumping if need be to get your missiles over cover. I think being a LRM boater is one thing, being a good boater is another and maneuver, tactics and skills are very important with them, like any other mech. I think that they're finally fine again, not too good, not too bad, worth sticking on a mech to wear mechs down, but not so much that they will kill in no time.

[Roadbuster]

Shiney, on 22 November 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

If you've been piloting LRM boats for a while you'll know it's much more useful for the team to move up and be perhaps 100 meters behind the front line, jumping if need be to get your missiles over cover. I think being a LRM boater is one thing, being a good boater is another and maneuver, tactics and skills are very important with them, like any other mech. I think that they're finally fine again, not too good, not too bad, worth sticking on a mech to wear mechs down, but not so much that they will kill in no time.

I agree. LRMs do require some skill now to get good results. Just shooting alot of missiles doesn't mean you're effective.
Just have to think about my tests with various loadouts for a Raven-2X. At the end I had the best results with 3SL, TAG and a LRM10.
Fire at targets that don't have AMS (because LRMs are sooooo weak now ^^) and can't use cover. You might not get many kills, but lots of assists and you can be a great help for your team.
Force opponents to stay in cover and bind them so your team has an advantage, soften targets before they can reach your team and help out your brawlers.

I wouldn't say LRMs should fly faster. They are ok at the moment.

[Skyfaller]

LRM and SRM fly at nearly the same speed. You're ignoring the time it takes for the LRM's to fly UP then DOWN on target.


Load an SRM in one arm, an LRM 5 in the other and fire both at a target 200m away. You'll see the LRMs hit just a half second or so after the SRM's.

LRM flight time is OK as it is now. Any faster would make the AMS and the Warning useless.


However, I do think the LRM's should have the following minor changes:

1- non-artemis and artemis LRM should have the same spread as artemis LRM has now. Aka, return to pre-nerf missile spread.

2- Change artemis to a true guidance module: With artemis the player can change the target of missiles in flight by locking a new target. This means the player can either fire blindly in one direction far away and then acquire a lock and the missiles will adjust their flight path in mid-air... and that the player can fire missiles at one target lock...and if the lock is lost while missiles in the air the player can lock another target and the missiles will home in on it.

-that function alone makes the Artemis a VERY good tool to have as it helps the ammo not be wasted.

SRMs gain limited homing ability (10 degree cone homing) when fired with artemis system. That would make the SRM's be a quarter as good in homing as SSRMs once fired.

3- Flight path of LRMs needs to adjusted slightly: When launched they should fly off the mech at a 70 degree up angle. When they fly down to target they should fly down at a 50 degree down angle (a bit more shallow than what they do now).

...and I think it would be cool to see the LRM's fly higher at the peak of their parabolic flight. I get a thrill seeing missile clusters streaking through the air across the map

[Sean von Steinike]

Civil War era rockets seem to fly faster than these things. Admittedly, they do look pretty cool in flight but all the rockets and missiles are pretty darn slow in this game.

[MadcatX]

Please don't change LRM's too much again.

I've done pretty much the same as the OP, although I've put a bit more emphasis on my short-range weapons to keep my options open and run it at 82 kph w/ jumpjets. The LRM's as they are right now work just great I find, at least for my playstyle.

[Vincent Lynch]

LRM are fine now.
The one thing I would wish for is to be able to change the target of in-flight LRMs if the first one disappears, and the other target is in approximately the same direction.

[Sug]

Shiney, on 22 November 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

If you've been piloting LRM boats for a while you'll know it's much more useful for the team to move up and be perhaps 100 meters behind the front line, jumping if need be to get your missiles over cover.

If I need to be 100m behind my team to use LRMs effectively i'd be better off bringing a Gaussapult or a Streakcat.....

[Dagger906]

LRMs are way too slow in MWO, 1/3 the speed of previous MW games. I don't like how MWO devs keep changing existing balance, going off on their own, and end up with broken stuff. What's the point?

[stjobe]

Dagger906, on 23 November 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

LRMs are way too slow in MWO, 1/3 the speed of previous MW games. I don't like how MWO devs keep changing existing balance, going off on their own, and end up with broken stuff. What's the point?

The point is to get a balanced game.

[Pale Jackal]

LRMs are fine. One patch ago, I'd be lucky to get a kill, using a pair of LRM15's without Artemis.

This patch, sometimes I get 5+ kills with a pair of LRM15's with Artemis. Is Artemis alone the source of this difference? Maybe, but either way, LRMs with Artemis are definitely viable weapons. I sometimes get 5+ kills with other weapons, and sometimes I get 5+ kills with LRMs. Sounds balanced to me.

LRMs should encourage skillful play, and that means giving a distant target nearby cover plenty of time to respond. This way you have an incentive to get close to maximize damage, but that means increasing your vulnerability. Decisions, decisions!

[Sug]

stjobe, on 23 November 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:

The point is to get a balanced game.

Of course. I'm not asking for them to bring back the days where EVERYONE used LRMs and the first person to stick their head out gets destroyed by massed LRM fire. That was awful.

I thought LRMs were in a good place but now that as soon as you launch your target gets a giant Incoming Missile warning on their screen. The instant warning give them too much time to react at long range.

If I find a stationary target over 800m away I fire my missiles without a lock. They get no warning and I usually hit with two volleys before they start moving. With a lock, as soon as I launch they get warned and have 10 sec to duck behind something.

You basically need to have a direct LOS to your target to get a reasonable chance to hit with missiles now. I bring my own TAG. I TAG my own targets. Just seems wrong.

[stjobe]

Even before the warning I always had half an eye on the skies to spot incoming missiles. LRMs are easy to avoid if you have some speed. If you don't have speed, better have AMS or some cover nearby or you WILL be destroyed.

I like it that I need to pay attention to not get killed. I like it that you need to pay attention to kill me. I think that LRMs are in a pretty good space now; utterly devastating if you don't pay attention to them, but possible to avoid if you do.

That big honking warning could use a bit of toning down though; personally I hope it's a stopgap measure until B-Betty comes online with her "Incoming missiles" warning.

[Sug]

Pale Jackal, on 23 November 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

LRMs are fine. One patch ago, I'd be lucky to get a kill, using a pair of LRM15's without Artemis.

This patch, sometimes I get 5+ kills with a pair of LRM15's with Artemis. Is Artemis alone the source of this difference? Maybe, but either way, LRMs with Artemis are definitely viable weapons. I sometimes get 5+ kills with other weapons, and sometimes I get 5+ kills with LRMs. Sounds balanced to me.

Maybe you're just awesome no matter what weapon you use.

Pale Jackal, on 23 November 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

LRMs should encourage skillful play, and that means giving a distant target nearby cover plenty of time to respond. This way you have an incentive to get close to maximize damage, but that means increasing your vulnerability. Decisions, decisions!

Why should I need to get close to maximize my LRM damage? If they're only really effective at 400-500m I'd be better off with large lasers or something. And if i'm getting that close anyways, I might as well just run a Streakcat.

You should be able to fire at something from behind cover, at over 500m and have a reasonable chance to hit. That's what spotters are for. That's what TAG is for.

LRMs have a minimum range. That's the vulnerability. Someone on the other team notices where the LRMs are coming from and sends fast mechs after them to kill the helpless LRM boat.

[Pale Jackal]

Sug, on 23 November 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

Why should I need to get close to maximize my LRM damage? If they're only really effective at 400-500m I'd be better off with large lasers or something.

Because if the target is not in cover, you can lob missiles at 800+ meters away and hit them. If they are distracted by your allies, then you can also fire at long range.

Besides, there is a lot of raw damage inherent in LRMs. Less precise, yes, but my damage scores are generally higher by 200+ points when I'm using missiles of any type.

[Sug]

Pale Jackal, on 23 November 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

Because if the target is not in cover, you can lob missiles at 800+ meters away and hit them.

That rarely happens. : / Consciously taking cover is one thing, but if there's anything taller than the target between me and it, my missiles will hit the anything.

[Scratx]

Missiles HURT, folks. They're not pin-point damage, but a good pair of salvos into a brawl can seal the fate of an opponent real good.

Frankly, I think LRMs are best when the target is distracted by combat, especially if in a brawl. Make them pick whether they value your threat or your teammate's more and you're already having an impact.

As to the suggestion .... I don't think making missiles faster is a good idea unless light mech's top attainable speed increases any further. There's a balance to be kept here, giving enough time for people to react to you is a GOOD thing. Remember, LRMs are on both sides of the field. I like being able to dodge 'em, myself, and I don't think they're weak because of that.

[Sug]

I've seen missiles "chase" a light mech parallel to the ground and smash into the ground when the mech ran up a hill. They could go a bit faster : /