228 replies to this topic

[pursang]

Rejarial Galatan, on 04 May 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

going to be 100% blunt. I fully expect to see clan mechs in this game. I have 0 idea when they will cross my path, but, i FULLY expect to see them, and when we get clans as a faction, to PILOT them. Do i expect it at launch? not a whole lot. to say we NEVER will see or pilot them is folly.

Now... who said that?

[Evgeny Bear]

praise the days when an AC 10 and 2-3 medium Lasers was an enormous arsenal put on a battlemech =D
instead of fielding 1 long tom 2 heavy medium lasers 1 ER PPC and a Rocketlauncher.... not to forget the jumpjets to pop up behind cover^^

Edited by Andar89, 04 May 2012 - 11:36 PM.

[OnLashoc]

I thought this game was sort of a reboot / revision of the universe? In that case, guass could be made available tomorrow.

Regardless, once again it is a GAME, not a TRO page for page copy. Will it pull a lot of info from source books and TRO's, etc.? Sure! But for those of us who are strictly gamers and not table top players, this game is made for us as well.

People seem to keep forgetting that.

If they wanted Ravens to have wings and giant skate boards, they will. Quit trying to cram the source materials down everyones throat.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

wwiiogre, on 04 May 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

But Goldhawk they all exist and before the clan attacks. So your post makes no sense to me.

Active Probe 3045 Liao
Anti Missile System 3040 Federated Commonwealth
Ferro Armor 3040 Draconis Combine
Artemis 4 Fire Control System 3035 Free Worlds League
LBX-10 AC 3035 Fed Com
Ultra AC5 3035 Fed Suns
C3 Master/Slave Computers 3050 Draconis Combine
CASE 3036 Draconis Combine
ECM Suite 3035 Liao
XL Engine 3035 Lyran Commonwealth
Gauss Rifle 3040 Free Worlds League, Lyran Commonwealth, Draconis Combine
Hatchet 3022 Lyran Commonwealth
Double Heat Sinks 3040 Federated Suns
Endo Steel Internal Structure 3035 Draconis Combine
ER Large Lasers 3037 Draconis Combine
Pulse Lasers 3037 Draconis Combine
Streak SRM-2 3035 Free Worlds League
Missile Special Munitions only Inferno SRM loads are available in this time frame
MASC 3035 Liao
NARC 3035 Free Worlds League
ERPPC 3037 Draconis Combine
TAG 3033 Federated Suns
Triple Strenght Myomer 3050 Liao

Sorry Goldhawk, there is a Santa Claus. But what we don't know is when Christmas will come in MWO or when or if these will be available or what they will cost or how much xp it will take to open up the mech variants that use these wonderful weapons, engines, structure, heat sinks, or equipment.

Chris

ninja'd while I typed

If I may... while yes this list is correct, please be aware, most of that equipment listed at the time listed, was PROTOTYPE. which means VERY, VERY... did I mention VERY rare... it was probably fielded on only a very select collection of mechs, and even then, it was probably only done so in very strict conditions as proof of concept work.

OnLashoc, on 04 May 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

I thought this game was sort of a reboot / revision of the universe? In that case, guass could be made available tomorrow.

Regardless, once again it is a GAME, not a TRO page for page copy. Will it pull a lot of info from source books and TRO's, etc.? Sure! But for those of us who are strictly gamers and not table top players, this game is made for us as well.

People seem to keep forgetting that.

If they wanted Ravens to have wings and giant skate boards, they will. Quit trying to cram the source materials down everyones throat.

Considering one of the MAJOR DEVLOPERS OF THE BATTLETECH FRANCHISE is involved... I'm pretty sure the source material is VERY important bro.

[Thomas Hogarth]

Jade Kitsune, on 04 May 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

If I may... while yes this list is correct, please be aware, most of that equipment listed at the time listed, was PROTOTYPE. which means VERY, VERY... did I mention VERY rare... it was probably fielded on only a very select collection of mechs, and even then, it was probably only done so in very strict conditions as proof of concept work.

The dates given in the corebooks are for initial production runs. Prototype dates are given elsewhere(individual scenario books/historicals), and are of course earlier. Ergo, the dates given there, from what I can tell, are for production, not prototype, units.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Thomas Hogarth, on 04 May 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

The dates given in the corebooks are for initial production runs. Prototype dates are given elsewhere(individual scenario books/historicals), and are of course earlier. Ergo, the dates given there, from what I can tell, are for production, not prototype, units.

Even if they are production dates... that doesn't mean they'd be heavily fielded right away, new tech=expensive prices... thus rare.

[pursang]

Jade Kitsune, on 04 May 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

Even if they are production dates... that doesn't mean they'd be heavily fielded right away, new tech=expensive prices... thus rare.

I don't think anyone is arguing that they where "heavily fielded right away". However, they where available, amount notwithstanding.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

pursang, on 05 May 2012 - 12:02 AM, said:

I don't think anyone is arguing that they where "heavily fielded right away". However, they where available, amount notwithstanding.

I won't argue this, but I think the 'is x weapon going to be in the game' statement comes from people who just, well, frankly, don't want to wait... Honestly, I would have been perfectly happy to see this ENTIRE game take place in 3015-3025 [like the old 09 trailer first indicated before it was MWO] Innershpere only, with only the most basic of weaponry...

Regardless of that, the issue is instant gratification, people WANT IT NAO... guess what guys, not happening.

[Thomas Hogarth]

I want this game to be as close to canon as possible.

After the tech retcon for Wo3039H and 3050U, it became clear that the advanced tech wasn't as rare as hens teeth by the time of the Clan invasion. Not super-duper-never-see-it rare, but merely somewhat uncommon.

Dealing with averages: Would every 'Mech have lostech? Of course not. Every other 'Mech? Nope. Every tenth? Ehh, no. One out of a hundred? By 3049, I can maybe see that, yeah, if you count all the refits and one-off-slap-ons.

Would I have preferred seeing the game start in 3015? You're damn right I would. And not because I'm a grognard that can't play anything but the old tech, quite the opposite. It's merely past due for the earlier time period to get some digital love.

[Sigmund Sandoval]

I would rather see a re-imagined Wasp and Stinger than get an ER PPC at launch. In other words, we should get the basics out of the way before we work on the advanced set. Calm down guys. I guarantee that at some point we will all have access to the most advanced tech out there and before you know it you will be rolling in Dire and Timber Wolves, but give the game some room to grow into. Its like worrying if you will be able to get a Ferrari before you even get a learners permit.

[Jack Gallows]

Depending on the year they came out (let's use the Gauss Rifle in 3040 as an example,) some things would be more common/less expensive to field then others that are closer to the game launch time.

Gauss Rifle might be semi rare, where ECM is probably still pretty rare and very expensive since it's only been a few years (4-5 currently vs 10 years for the Gauss,) since it came out. Meaning, the upgraded Raven variants are probably some serious $$, or any other light/medium 'mech you might have them equipped with.

This is fine, high risk high reward kind of stuff. Yeah, you might be able to buy a rare piece of equipment, but can you maintain the cost of replacing said equipment?

I know that if my unit can keep using slightly more outdated tech and keep on achieving victory at a smaller cost, we'll do that until it seems like we'd need to buy the more expensive stuff. Solid teamwork is going to trounce tech advantages, so when we do get the time/money to tech up it'll give us that much more of an edge...but being able to do more with less is only going to make us better when the Clans finally hit.

[Skylarr]

Rejarial Galatan, on 04 May 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Timber_Wolf I will copy the VERY FIRST LINE, for those who dont click links: The Timber Wolf is a fast heavy OmniMech. A signature design of the Clans' military might, it was arguably the first Clan OmniMech encountered by Inner Sphere forces (as opposed to periphery forces) on The Rock in 3049 by Phelan Kell.^[2][4][5]

so, yes, seen in the InnerSphere in 3049 by none other than Phelan Kell himself.

this would make it A: exceedingly RARE for IS forces to field, OR B: EXCEEDINGLY EXPENSIVE for IS forces to field in 3049

The Rock is not in the Inner Sphere. It is 7 jumps into the Periphery. So, Yes it was seen by Inner Sphere forces before 3050, but, it was seen in the Periphery.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Rejarial Galatan, on 04 May 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

IF you have the money and can commision a Northrop Grumman Shipyard to make you one, then uh YES.

As I said in a Minds Eye Theater Live Action Role Playing Game: There is absolutely NOTHING that you cannot do OR buy with out the right amount of money. All it takes is finding the persons personal price tag, and then, have at it.

In the context of BT, this isn't exactly true. Let's say you actually took out a Timber Wolf in a battle. Even if you have the salvage rights to it, do you really believe the local House is going to let you walk away with it? They would confiscate it so fast you would be lucky to remember your own name afterwards.

[Skylarr]

To me it seems like most of the players here played the Computer game but never played the TT game. They are use to switching out weapons when ever they want. In the TT game to switch out a single weapon took onts or years of research. If you had the facility to do so.

[Skylarr]

Nick Makiaveli, on 05 May 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

In the context of BT, this isn't exactly true. Let's say you actually took out a Timber Wolf in a battle. Even if you have the salvage rights to it, do you really believe the local House is going to let you walk away with it? They would confiscate it so fast you would be lucky to remember your own name afterwards.

During the Clan Invasion every Merc unit on the Clan Front got there teeth kicked in. Most on were used as fodder to stem the Clan push on worlds. The ones that survived, most did not, were not able to get salvage. There are some exceptions. Any merc unit hired during the lull was not given Full salvage rights.

As for the House Units? Almost all were Green units who were routed. The units that did survive the 1st wave, House and Mercs, were destroyed during the 2nd wave.The first4 waves happen in seccession.

• March: The first Wave of Operation Revival begins - Clans invade the Inner Sphere.
  
• May: The second Wave of Operation Revival begins.
  
• June: The third Wave of Operation Revival begins.
  
• July: The forth Wave of Operation Revival begins.

[Azantia]

For those who are hoping to get a Mad Cat / Timber Wolf :

First introduced in 2945, the Timber Wolf was designed by Clan Wolf as a second generation OmniMech along with the Gargoyle and the Naga to replace the aging Woodsman. While the Gargoyle may have been a very capable, fast assault OmniMech, and the Naga may have been an excellent fire-support OmniMech, Clan Wolf (and indeed every other Clan) instantly realized the value of the Timber Wolf; thus, production rights to the Timber Wolf were jealously (and successfully) defended. Only through trade, gifts and battlefield salvage has the Timber Wolf entered the armies of other Clans. Until the invasion of the Inner Sphere, production of the Timber Wolf has been limited to a single facility on Strana Mechty.^[2][4][5]

And forget salvaging one : Inner Sphere technicians cannot restore one because we dont have the technology. But wait, we have Ferro-Fiberous, and Endo Steel, and even Star league weapons!

I.S. stuff is just different enough (see the bulk / critical space limits or if you want to go deep enough read the tech readouts) that its not compatible.

Think of it like this : A UFO is shot down and recovered. While our scientists can analyze the metals, try to figure out how it works, and dissect every little nook and cranny, it will take them decades to reverse engineer the technology, if the same materials are available, and in many cases in the IS, they are not.

[Vollstrecker]

Salvage rights were also the most hotly contested contractual item during the Invasion as well. You would get no rights, or possibly exchange rights, but no one was letting Mercs under contract lift off with Clan-tech unless you were Wolf's Dragoons or the Kell Hounds.

[Eximar]

The best part will be the whining when the Mad Cat art does come out and it isn't a spindly legged/armed greenhouse with boxes on it.

[Kasiagora]

I feel like I'm throwing poop in the punch bowl here, but the real reason to the confusion is the age old Fasa legal problems. (And partially people who don't know the details of the timeline. Video gamers, you're welcome here too. )
I'm a 3025-head and would love for things to be how they were in the good old days, but when Fasa suddenly lost roughly 34% of the mechs that they had in the Technical Readout: 3025 they needed to fill that space back up with mechs from other TRs. So many mechs that supposedly hadn't been seen since the days of Star League got teched down and made into common junkers that people were barely keeping running. And a few of the 3050 mechs got the same treatment to be brand new designs that were still in prototype or first generation phases without the technology they had later for the War of 3039 TR. Things used to be simple in the first run of 3025, 3050, and 2750, but once it all hit the fan they had to change a LOT of fluff and release dates to compensate and things got pretty convoluted.

I think the development team has a pretty full plate and considering all of that, a little license on their part should be allowed/forgiven and we should appreciate the task they're tackling. You know, as long as the mechs don't have health bars like in a certain couple of games that I admit, were kind of fun despite being so so wrong.
As for the players, hold on to your horses! Your precious clan mechs are coming to rain on my parade. Be patient! Allow me to enjoy my bittersweet couple of months before the whole battletech universe goes to hell again.

Two final A.D.D. thoughts:
(1) I kind of like those dumbed down mech designs.
(Baker) A game that takes place in the founding days of the Clans during the civil wars after Star League struck out on their own would be difficult but pretty sweet. All SL mechs and first or 2nd gen Clan mechs, untread story arcs, and all that.

Edited by Kasiagora, 06 May 2012 - 12:25 AM.

[MeDammit]

I personally am a 3025 TT baby. Been playing it for decades and love it still. But even in the video games, IS 3025 weaponry has a place. In MW4 on a Masakari try 6 IS PPPCs instead of your 4 clan ERPPCs. not quite the range and a bit heavier, but on an alpha strike, Woah Buddy! And on regular firing, 6 is better than 4 and heat management is significantly easier.