133 replies to this topic

[Sybreed]

Personnaly, I think it sucks.

Now, before some of you come and scream "DUDE IT'S AWESOME ON THE PHRACT 3-D OR TO SHOOT LIGHT MECHS", let me propose you this: Try the weapon as your primary weapon (in other words, pilot any mech with it as your primary arm weapon).

Now come back here and tell me the weapon isn't awful both for its price (800 000 C-Bills) and performance. You're not talking much because you're already busy raging over that useless gun? That's what I thought.

The problem is simple: the shotgun effect simply doesn't work well in MWO. You need to pinpoint damage to a single location to be the least effective and you need to be able to shoot targets at distance when you use ballistics, otherwise lasers are simply superior. Nothing is more frustrating than chasing a light 100 feets away from you and only half your pellets hit the legs (instead of the back CT) because the spread is way too wide.

I'm trying to figure out ways to make the weapon better and I'm out of ideas. I thought of giving each pellet a small chance to deal internal damage through armor, but people would scream OP faster than a Jenner who just passed by a Streakcat. I thought of making the pellets very very tightened together for the first 450 meters then spread out more after that. This solution actually made more sense, giving the weapon an AC feel at close range and a shotgun feel at longer range. I'd expect all of my pellets to hit an Atlas at 450m, which is its max range. Although, I don't see the point of using anything other than a regular AC at this point. But, honestly, I don't know what can save this money sink of a weapon.

Perhaps someone who's quite knowledgable of TT could give some good ideas to balance the weapon out?

What got me worried is that Paul made no mention of it in the weapon balance thread, so I'm not having high hopes of this weapon having a place in someone's arsenal (other than the Phract 3-D)

edit: Oh boy, whoever necroed that thread made me realize how much it needed grammar corrections

Edited by Sybreed, 14 April 2013 - 01:28 PM.

[Milkman Luke]

In TT, it has the option of firing slug or shot, but that's irrelevant for now.

Basically, the LBX isn't a main weapon for opening up a mech's armor. It's a secondary weapon for quickly critically damaging the interior components of a mech. From what I've seen, it's actually pretty good at that now that critical hits are implemented. Basically, it ENDS fights. It doesn't start them.

[Sybreed]

Milkman Luke, on 23 November 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

In TT, it has the option of firing slug or shot, but that's irrelevant for now.

Basically, the LBX isn't a main weapon for opening up a mech's armor. It's a secondary weapon for quickly critically damaging the interior components of a mech. From what I've seen, it's actually pretty good at that now that critical hits are implemented. Basically, it ENDS fights. It doesn't start them.

from my experience with the weapon, it doesn't crit more than a regular AC

[Edustaja]

Actually it's absolute rubbish at dealing critical hits. Each component has health of 10 which means at least a PPC or ac 10 round to the internals is needed to take something out in one shot. Basically you end up destroying the whole section before even damaging a single component.

[General Taskeen]

Simple, the 'cluster shot' from an LB-X is supposed to behave like 'flak' shot, not a burst of pellets straight out of the barrel.

[Deadoon]

General Taskeen, on 23 November 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

Simple, the 'cluster shot' from an LB-X is supposed to behave like 'flak' shot, not a burst of pellets straight out of the barrel.

Basically make it a ac/10 that shoots explosive shots that damage multiple components but not as precise for single area damage. That is a genuinely good idea.

[Poptimus Rhyme Wallace]

I've run it as a primary weapon with great succes, mind you my function on the field was not to deal damage and brawl, but to scare off lights and make boats turn away from battle to look at where i once stood firing that very weapon at their backside.

[De La Fresniere]

It's viable, barely.
It's definitely not good.

So no.

[Kakamouth]

Personally I like the LBX 10... it's the SRM of the ballistic world. While you aren't doing concentrated damage thats made up for by being able to score headshots by simply aiming above center mass. It's also decent at legging lights when compared to other ballistic weapons. Sure I've taken a Commando's leg off with an ac20 but I miss those shots far more often than I land them. Where as the LBX hits more often than it misses.

Part of the problem in translating the LBX from table top to a shooter is the fact you no longer have random hit locations. Firing a half dozen lasers at someone didn't mean you cut a torso off, chances are you hit at least 3 differant locations. With the LBX you still hit random locations spreading the damage across those locations. Sure it could stand to have it's damage bumped up a notch or two or possibly have the number of "pellets" reduced so the damage isn't quite as spread out... but it's still a viable brawler weapon. You just don't hunt 100 ton assault mechs with it.

[Phantomewzick]

Honestly they just need to tighten the spread on it by about 25% and then it would be fantastic.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

If the LBX had select-fire ammo (could fire both cluster rounds and slugs), or if the LBX did LRM damage with each submunition (and 1 submunition fired for each AC rating, so the LB-10X would have 10 pellets at 1.7 damage each), or if the LBX fired air-burst canister rounds, then it would be viable and I could see taking it as your main gun.

Until then, it will be merely a heavy backup gun for trying to tag fast-movers at point-blank range if you aren't good enough to use a real ballistic weapon to do the job.

[De La Fresniere]

To clarify:

The weapon itself takes up 6 slots, which not only is a lot but also means it'll usually be destroyed very quickly once your armor's gone (and it's usually feeble arm armor protecting it).

It's 11(!) tons alone, then only 15 shots per ton of ammo. You'll want 4 tons at the very least, meaning 15 freakin' tons for a single weapon. Oh, and of course, ammo can explode.

The scatter effect means most shots are going to lose some damage (pellets missing the target) right off the bat, and almost every shot will have the pellets spread their damage among multiple sections of the opponent, wasting most of its remaining damage potential. The scatter effect also negates the weapon's theoretical long range.

Since every pellet crits separately, it means even crit damage is spread among internals, meaning repeated crits will likely not destroy any single item in the section, meaning this weapon is unusually bad at critical hits.

Then it has all the awful problems that come with ballistic weapons; firing delay, projectile speed, convergence issues.

Why not spend those 15 tons on two Medium lasers and 13 Heat Sinks? You'll have much more accuracy, will be much harder to disarm, will be certain not to run out of ammo, will avoid all those ballistics issues...

You know, I'm changing my opinion. I thought it was not good but kinda viable; now I realize it's very bad and not viable.

[Khavi Vetali]

Check the past Ask the Devs. They have stated that they will be adding munition switching for LBX autocannons in the future, between cluster and slug rounds. How they will implement it to not obsolete the AC10 completely is anyone's guess.

[Yigyam]

The spread past 120m could use some more tightening. Other than that, I like it in duplicate.

[Ted Wayz]

I like dual LB-X 10's on my Atlas, but you really have to control the situation for it to be effective. It also makes my Atlas deadly to lights and mediums when I can control the range. So yes it can be a good primary, it just isn't as plug and play as most primary weapons.

[Lootee]

Khavi Vetali, on 23 November 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

Check the past Ask the Devs. They have stated that they will be adding munition switching for LBX autocannons in the future, between cluster and slug rounds. How they will implement it to not obsolete the AC10 completely is anyone's guess.

Forcing you to carry 2 different types of ammo which can explode isn't enough of a drawback already? You'll need the cannon plus at least 3 tons of slug ammo to last through the match. Then if you want any cluster ammo you'll have to add more. XAC + 3 tons slug + at least 1 ton of cluster weighs as much as a gauss rifle.

The way it is now the LB10X is terrible, since it only has the wimpy fire mode. I wouldn't recommend it as a primary weapon unless your build is pure short range brawler.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 23 November 2012 - 07:14 PM.

[Sybreed]

Deadoon, on 23 November 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Basically make it a ac/10 that shoots explosive shots that damage multiple components but not as precise for single area damage. That is a genuinely good idea.

eh, I would support that

[Joseph Mallan]

Um if it had the ability to shoot Slug and Cluster. Yes.

[Tempered]

Spread needs tightening a touch, but other than that, it is a good weapon for its intended purpose. That purpose is to ***** shoot light mechs, and help people with bad aim or bad lag. It also helps strip armor much like lrms.

Hmm, why was s_k_e_e_t as in clay pigeons blocked?

Edited by Tempered, 23 November 2012 - 07:17 PM.

[Legion121]

Well im running the "shotgun" on my raven, quite a sacrifice in armor and slots for sure. Unfortunately after making them many c-bills and finding a nice balance with weapons (used in conjunction with 2 medium lasers) the weapon is nothing short of bad. The pellets spread randomly hitting random parts of the armor you didn't aim for. But the real buzz-kill for this weapon is it's lack of damage. It simply is sub-par even with surprise rear attacks to exposed armor. I'll keep trying it out but so far all it does is annoy most mechs.... Reminds me of the the machine guns.