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Raven...help Me To Help You


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#1 Danipenn

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 11:51 PM

Dear MechWarriors,

I started this game with a Raven and somehow got attached to it.

As a consequence, I have all three variants and pretty much play a little bit with different weapons/equipment to see what works and what doesn't.

I have unlocked the elite skills and I am planning to become master (so switching to another model is not an option at the moment. I spent too much time and cbills on this and I would like to make it work).

However, sometimes I die in a matter of seconds and I am wondering what I am doing wrong. I understand it is a light an it is not supposed to be on the front line as a brawler.

I like to support my team and I usually get into the fights trying to add my contribution but at the same time trying not to put myself in between the "big guys" pew pewing each other.

However, when they notice me I have a very bad time, mostly from Jenners really, since I can't run away from them (no point really).

I would like to hear your opinions on the Raven in general and if you have any advice.

At the moment I am trying with:

XL Engine 210
3 Medium pulse
2 Streak SRM 2
AMS
C.A.S.E.

Firepower 28
Heat efficiency 1.02
Speed 97.2

Thanks in advance for your feedback ;)

#2 Skinny Pete

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:01 AM

Your heat is really low. I havent' ran a Raven yet, but I would switch to mediums or maybe drop some SRM ammo for heatsinks. Are you running Endo or DHS?

#3 p00k

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:03 AM

way too hot, consider dropping to mlas and getting more hs
also if you're running an xl engine, case doesn't really do any good

try this
3 mlas
2 streak2s, 2tons ammo (may find you only need 1, in which case drop a ton and i'd say up the armor to
ams, 1ton ammo
xl245 engine
with 208 armor, you should be able to put an extra 6 dhs for a total of 15dhs, which should let you fire to your hearts content without overheating (requires endosteel upgrade)

personally i'd drop the ams, put an extra dhs and an extra half ton of armor for 224. lrm's only kill the careless; especially if you're moving top speed

Edited by p00k, 25 November 2012 - 12:15 AM.


#4 One Medic Army

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:06 AM

Swap those medium pulses to mediums, also allows you to engage at longer ranges.
Your raven is quite slow, looking into putting the largest engine that your chassis will support in it. This will help you deal with other light mechs.
If you haven't yet, Double Heatsinks and Endosteel are good upgrades on light mechs. FerroFibrous might fit as well, but expect your repair bills to skyrocket, so I'd suggest against it.

Simply put, as far as being a light mech goes, you're slow and hot, both of which are bad juju.

On XL engines and CASE: CASE will reduce the repair bill on said XL engine if you loose a side torso from ammo explosion.
However, you'd be much better putting the 1-2tons of SSRM ammo and 1ton of AMS ammo in your legs or cockpit and discarding the case.

Edited by One Medic Army, 25 November 2012 - 12:07 AM.


#5 The Legendary Samurai

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:19 AM

View PostDanipenn, on 24 November 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

However, sometimes I die in a matter of seconds and I am wondering what I am doing wrong


To begin with, you're piloting a Raven.

#6 Tarman

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:20 AM

Before the last reset I drove a lot of Ravens. I liked the 4X for any kind of scouting that needed doing, but usually if I was the only light; I drove it as a long-range recon sniper and emergency rear flanker rather than an anti-light. The JJ really help the maneuvering for tighter turns and escapes than you can pull flat-footed. I agree with dropping the pulse if you can use regular meds successfully, your range, heat, and tonnage will be better. Also the advice against FF is good, I haven't personally found it to be that useful a tradeoff; stuff that can shoot you apart won't need much more for the gains you're getting. Speed is a light's real armour. But yeah, the Raven's usually Jennerfood regardless; if he gets teeth in you'd better hope your team can bonk him first. That's less about the Raven sucking and more because the Jenner can outgame a lot of mechs at a lot of things.

#7 Danipenn

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:29 AM

Thanks guys (especially you Samurai ;P)

I made the following adjustements based on your feedback.

Ammo in the legs
got rid of C.A.S.E.
Switched to normal medium lasers
Switched to normal armor
Added a TAG.
Added a Beagle active probe

Results:

Firepower 20 (less)
Heat efficiency 1.30 (more)
Speed 97.2 (same)

For DHS and a faster XL engine I will have to wait (not enough credits now).

Opinions on the TAG and Beagle Active Probe?

Cheers ;)

#8 p00k

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:42 AM

View PostDanipenn, on 25 November 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

Thanks guys (especially you Samurai ;P)

I made the following adjustements based on your feedback.

Ammo in the legs
got rid of C.A.S.E.
Switched to normal medium lasers
Switched to normal armor
Added a TAG.
Added a Beagle active probe

Results:

Firepower 20 (less)
Heat efficiency 1.30 (more)
Speed 97.2 (same)

For DHS and a faster XL engine I will have to wait (not enough credits now).

Opinions on the TAG and Beagle Active Probe?

Cheers ;)


tag is only good if you're running with a group. can't count on pugs to bring lrms, and use them when you have someone tagged. i'd ditch it, cram one more mlas

bap is decent if you have the spare tonnage, which you currently do by virtue of an undersized engine. however, the money you spent on that bap just put you ever so much further from buying the xl engine and dhs that the raven needs to be respectable

#9 One Medic Army

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:43 AM

Well, the BAP will let you detect other mechs from a greater range than they can detect you.
This only matters if you're playing sneaky-like and trying to acquire at maximum range, where you likely won't be able to maintain solid lock.

The TAG is great if anyone on your team is using LRMs, and if you can stick to a target and keep them TAG'd.
I'd say that if you run with a team, and one has an LRM boat, then TAG+LRM support is the best way you can kill an enemy Jenner. The LRM boat will love it too, Jenners and LRM boats are practically natural enemies.
When PUGing, your experience will vary, since you may not have anyone on your team with LRMs, and even if you do they may not be firing at a target you designate.
General rule of thumb on my part is I always swap out a TAG for another Medium Laser when playing PUG.

If you want to play the real scout role, what I've found works is trying to get around behind the enemy team without being spotted (on forest this is near impossible unless you wait until after the fighting starts, but most other maps it can be managed if you get lucky and know the routes). Once you're behind the enemy team you can designate them from outside their vision and even TAG them without them ever knowing you exist.
If you want to be sneaky, remember to keep track of which direction people are looking, and don't fire any damaging weapons unless you've already been spotted.

Edited by One Medic Army, 25 November 2012 - 12:45 AM.


#10 NZStevie

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:48 AM

I also have 3 ravens and working through the Vet skill trees.

I can usually get 1 or 2 kills with the raven and survive the match depending on what the team mates do.

Biggest advice. Do NOT play this mech like a light mech. It is not fast enough. (Hunchbacks can usually keep pace or are slightly slower than the stock raven which has a top speed of 81 I believe) Play it in a support role with your heavier hitting weapons to deal some damage (heavy compared to other light mechs) while the enemy are ore-occupied with your assault / heavy buddys.

Buddy up with an Atlas or Awesome, Let them take the heat while you then use your speed to run around whatever you are fighting and target weak spots. The target will almost almost be preoccupied allowing you to get a good couple of hits in. Also with some added armor on you. you should be fine shrugging off the odd hit which would mean death for another light Mech.
I have a number of load outs on my 3 ravens, Although my fav is :
1x Large Laser
2x Med Pulse lasers
and either a LRM5 or SSRM2 depending on if I want to engage at range or close up that day.

Ive seen countless Ravens used for scouting which just end up dieing very fast. The Jenner / Commando are just better at it.

Thats how I play it anyway. Seems to work well for me.

#11 Orkhepaj

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:49 AM

The problem it is too easy to detect a light mech , it should be harder so they can play sneaky role.
Game design problem. currently jenner is superior to all light and med mechs.

#12 Valder

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:50 AM

Biggest. Engine. Possible.

Max Armor.

Star with that, then add guns in. Use double heatsinks and you wont be able to overheat it, even with only 10 heatsinks. Use an XL engine to fit bigger guns, when your sides go you're screwed anyway.

#13 Timelordwho

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 01:12 AM

View PostOne Medic Army, on 25 November 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:

If you want to be sneaky, remember to keep track of which direction people are looking, and don't fire any damaging weapons unless you've already been spotted.


The exception being the dual ac2 raven firing on a target that is shooting someone else. those rounds can be shot outside radar range, especially with beagle, and are really annoying to track down. This is probably one of the most annoying builds you can do as a raven. Not necessarily strongest, but most annoying.

#14 PYR0MANCER

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:07 AM

RVN-3L

3 ml
1 ssrm2
1 ton ssrm ammo
xl295
case
13 DHS
BAP
endosteel
max armor

or...

3 ml
1 srm6
2 tons srm ammo
xl295
11 DHS
endosteel
max armor

or...

3 ml
2 ssrm2
1 ton ssrm ammo
xl295
12 DHS
endosteel
max armor

Ferro Fibrous will even fit in but it doesn't really save enough weight to do much else especially taking up extra internal space and the cost of repairs... You don't even get a full ton with it and that means extra armor has to come off just to add in one ton of something...

I could go on but I think you get the idea... I already sold my 4x and my 2x is stripped bare or I'd give you some options for those as well... Perhaps later if you really want...

Forget all the people riding the jenner bandwagon... The Raven can be a good mech in good hands and just plain looks better... So what the jenner gets a little extra combat love, that's all the love it will ever get with those looks... That's right Raven's get all the hot girl mechs and the jenner has to take all the fatlas' home with it if it wants any action...

The 3L can keep up with a jenner easily enough but doesn't sport the extra energy slots or the jj's so staying with one in a running combat can be slightly harder and the extra weaponry will make sticking in a fight a little harder against a good pilot... Most lights just circle fight though so no need to worry about a running combat until the jenner turns tail and runs, which they will a lot of times, if you can learn to aim ahead and actually register hits... The not so hot pilots out there will turn tail once they realize you can hit them and then the advantage is yours as long as you can keep sight of them...

Against a good pilot though you have to be better... The jenner was made for some combat while the Raven was geared more towards scouting and that makes an even skilled fight lean towards the jenner... You have to make sure your shots are hitting that jenner each and every time in order to bring down the confidence of the enemy pilot because jenner pilots, good or bad, are full of confidence... They think they are in the best mech in the game and can take out anything just by running in circles... You have to show them otherwise and force them into breaking off from the circle by doing consistant damage...

Some say aim for the legs and it is a good strategy but you have to make sure you are hitting, make that enemy pilot feel a little fear that his legs are being damaged too much in the fight... Make sure your's aren't either... In past games legging was looked at poorly but in MW:O they seem to be fair game and there will be a lot more players that care nothing for lore or honor or whatever than in past games so watch your legs in a fast mech...

As far as the other variants go you can play them pretty much the same except don't wander as far from the main group... The lack of speed will hurt you bad when faced with a run or die situation... It ends up being try to run and then die anyway if you are too far out from friendlies...

The 2x can run max armor max engine and still squeeze in 4 mls and an srm6 I think... Pretty good load for combat just keep close to your lance...
The 4x is a weird setup and I never got any good loadout's I was happy with, although for slapping on some heavy weapons for fun can be..... well..... fun... ERPPC Raven, Gauss Raven, AC/20 Raven, Dual AC/2 Raven etc... Practical..? No not really... Just some good old lol time...

#15 Keisuke Nagisa

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:24 AM

Well I run my 3l as a scout raven. I have:

XL 295
2 ML
2 SSRM2
1 TAG
BAP
13 heatsinks

Modules (Still acquiring but its what I will run, may change if they release better scouting stuff):
360 target retention (good when your spotting)
Capture accelerator
Sensor range
Target info gathering



It runs pretty cool and the tag helps the streaks (faster lock) along with helping your lrm friends. It goes 146 with speed tweak so it can help against those jenners along with the streaks. If you upgrade to DHS you can add Guardian ECM when its implemented and not have to worry about streaks and lrms at all which will be your biggest enemies. Also put the ammo in your legs and you can drop the case

My 4x:

xl 210
2 ML
2 SSRM2
1 AC5
10 heat sinks
jj

Mods:
Capture accelerator

Not as fast as the 3l but packs a little punch and can jump

Dont have a 2x anymore but ran a xl 210 srm6 and ML or MPL dont remember which.

#16 Boris The Spider

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:38 AM

I actualy like your original build, however I would drop the torso mounted laser (personaly I never link fire torso and arm weapons on a mech with as good arm articulation as the raven) 2 MPLAS are a good damage dealer and the best thing about them, esp on the Raven chasis is that they get their damage out quickly. This allows you to run past an enemy, give it a quick burst, then move to break lock on them, concentrate on dodging their fire while your heat goes back down and weapons recycle. Standard lasers, esp on torso mounts require you to keep your body pointed at the enemy for the whole duration of the beam to get its full damage out allowing them to hit you easier.

#17 Keisuke Nagisa

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:45 AM

View PostBoris The Spider, on 25 November 2012 - 02:38 AM, said:

I actualy like your original build, however I would drop the torso mounted laser (personaly I never link fire torso and arm weapons on a mech with as good arm articulation as the raven) 2 MPLAS are a good damage dealer and the best thing about them, esp on the Raven chasis is that they get their damage out quickly. This allows you to run past an enemy, give it a quick burst, then move to break lock on them, concentrate on dodging their fire while your heat goes back down and weapons recycle. Standard lasers, esp on torso mounts require you to keep your body pointed at the enemy for the whole duration of the beam to get its full damage out allowing them to hit you easier.



Well you still have to keep your body turned towards them since the raven cant swing its arms (no lower arm actuators). I put a tag in the torso

#18 Boris The Spider

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:52 AM

View PostKeisuke Nagisa, on 25 November 2012 - 02:45 AM, said:



Well you still have to keep your body turned towards them since the raven cant swing its arms (no lower arm actuators). I put a tag in the torso


It can swing its arms, its upper arm actuators are a lot more efficent than for example the CPLT-K2, but not as efficent as the HBK with both actuators. I can shoot about 45 degree angle from the torso in my 2X, K2 can manage about 5 degrees. And I too run the tag on the torso.

edit: actualy your right, just ran my RVN out to check it out, must have been illisionary effect, still up and down articuation is helpfull when your not wasting shots out your torso. Still, pulse lasers will reduce the time you have to spend orientated on the target.

Edited by Boris The Spider, 25 November 2012 - 03:36 AM.


#19 Danipenn

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 04:26 AM

Thanks a lot guys, your feedback has been really informative.

The only thing I miss now is the XL 295 engine (I have the XL 210 that I found with the 3L)

I am going like this now:

2 Medium lasers
1 Large Laser
2 SSRM (1 tons of ammo on the leg to avoid installing the C.A.S.E.)
14 DHS (heat efficiency 1.28)
Max armor
Endo steel

Firepower 29

(tonnage 35/35)

Once I install the heavier XL 295 engine I'll think of something else.

Cheers ;)

#20 KKRonkka

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 04:38 AM

It's a darn shame people only think about Jenner when talking about lights - because it's so OP currently, of course. "Don't bring commado or raven into fight, those are useless". When there's a mech which is better in every aspect it's very, very boring.

Raven would be more useful if it would have aoe sensor jamming devices that belongs to it. Unique mech features are needed to make not-so-popular mechs more interesting, not just allowing every mech have same feature.





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