155 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

I do think the smoke is a lil over the top. I'm moving the smoke shouldn't "cling' quite as tight as it does... IMO.

[byteu2]

I'm on the reduce screen shake and smoke. The screen shake thing is super annoying, especially on chain fire. I've learned to mostly compensate for it. But it seems like excessive goodness for an auto-hit weapon.

[Franchi]

Ad an option for they are fine. biased poll is biased.

[Andrew Cranston]

Chou Senwan, on 25 November 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

None of the above. Reduce the screen shake and amount of blinding explosions that prevent you from shooting back. 6 volleys of streaks? Okay, shake me. But if he's chain-firing one by one by one by one, it shouldn't shake me so much.

This. Same problem with AC2's. This is the equivalent of stun lock in other games and has no place in MechWarrior. I don't particularly have a problem with the damage, reload times, or lock on capabilities of SSRMs, I just hate the fact that you essentially can't shoot back effectively because you're blind and being rocked when chained.

[Czardread]

Haree78, on 25 November 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

I don't see them as needing a nerf, and I barely ever use them. I certainly don't use a streak cat, it's a close range shot gun build that can be dealt with at range. Noobs getting killed cause they stayed close to one have got their way though.

so we should abandon all close range and instead play with gaussnipers, lrm's boats streak boats ONLY, cause everything else is just stupid build easily killed and everyone who is not using one of these combos should be dead cause he is noob? yeah, GREAT, can see the game living a LONG TIME with your perfect idea of balancing.

Just remeber smartie, not everyone has the luxury of a tactically integrated, voiced chat enabled 4 player team 24/7 to play with you whenever you feel like it.

[Codejack]

Here, I made our own poll to "balance" this one: http://mwomercs.com/...ould-be-nerfed/

[Lefty Lucy]

Codejack, on 25 November 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

So we aren't even allowed to let them know that we disagree?

I think there was already a big poll that "let them know." However, I assume that they aren't just pulling their opinion out of a hat, but looking at server-side data collection, and saying "hmmm, streaks seem to be doing too much damage now." That's the reason why UAC5s were hit with the nerf bat so fast, after all.

[Splitpin]

Please add a No Nerf option to this poll, seems to me there's a fair bit of support for that.

[Disiz]

Where answer "do nothing with them"

[Czardread]

Andrew Cranston, on 25 November 2012 - 01:24 PM, said:

This. Same problem with AC2's. This is the equivalent of stun lock in other games and has no place in MechWarrior. I don't particularly have a problem with the damage, reload times, or lock on capabilities of SSRMs, I just hate the fact that you essentially can't shoot back effectively because you're blind and being rocked when chained.

as a triple ac/2 dragon user i agree with the stunlock thing eventhough its only really effective on individual targets without tactical coordenation with anyone else (wich is the majority of the player base).

removing the shake is not an option here cause it kill the one real use of the ac/2, its annoying shake. BUT...

Chou Senwan, on 25 November 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

One thing I heard is that after you get rocked a few times, your gyro figures out how to cope, so you only get shook a whole bunch on the first few volleys.

this would be an excellent way to balancing the shake issue on ALL weapons without nerfing or unbalancing ANY of then. they could even add a module and/or upgrade to speed this compensation up (something like advanced gyro's or something).

thoughts?

[Vapor Trail]

Frankly, I think they should be rigged so they have a random scatter across all the mech's components. Basically, at launch the server assigns a target component, and the missile homes on that component. The only thing that should prevent the missile from hitting that component is actual physical masking. The chance of each location being assigned probably should mirror the TT hit table from the front. So, from the front an SSRM2 can hit any front location (including head). From the rear, same. From either side, it gets interesting. Since the chance of hitting the torsos goes down considerably due to masking, the arm on the side facing the Streak is very likely to intercept most of the missiles. So the effect of torso twisting away from the Streaks is much like that of twisting away from any other weapon. It increases the damage dealt to the arm considerably.

Basically the thought is this: if you don't have to aim, you are relying on the game system to aim. If you're relying on the game to aim for you, your accuracy on the components of the mech should be pretty skewed. In TT the Streak SSRMs didn't have any better chance of hitting a particular component than a regular SRM that connected.

Having the SSRMs scatter like this is an improvement over SRMs, as they are all very likely to hit at long range (better than SRMs) but unlikely to cluster very well (slightly worse than SRMs).

Another nice thing about this is that it's easily expandable to any size Streak launcher... including Streak LRMs.

[Starsider]

I dont think they should nerf streaks again.

[Haree78]

Czardread, on 25 November 2012 - 01:24 PM, said:

so we should abandon all close range and instead play with gaussnipers, lrm's boats streak boats ONLY, cause everything else is just stupid build easily killed and everyone who is not using one of these combos should be dead cause he is noob? yeah, GREAT, can see the game living a LONG TIME with your perfect idea of balancing.

Just remeber smartie, not everyone has the luxury of a tactically integrated, voiced chat enabled 4 player team 24/7 to play with you whenever you feel like it.

Granted not all people are doing premades but I see plenty of people in Jenners running up to fight a Streak Cat with obvious results. It's human nature that when they die a few times to something that they immediately discount the disadvantages the opponent overcome and ignore the failures in their own play.
If someone takes a build that is pure damage sub 270m should be doing more damage than someone taking long range builds, can't see how that isn't balance. I've seen full Medium Pulse Laser hunchbacks doing fantastic damage when they get in someone's face and rightly so. The medium pulse laser build doesn't need to get and maintain a lock to keep firing, it campares quick equally in function to the SSRM build when you account the advantages/disadvantages of each.

I honestly believe the SSRM Cat isn't an issue, it's scary and needs to be dealt with fast when you see one by the plus 270m weapon mechs, but that's part of the game isn't it?

[MahKraah]

15% more spread to stop them hitting 90% ct with just mild splash at left and right(thats what they do atm)
mild shake , no smoke at all. as it is they are not only a medium dammage automatic sharpshooter but also a ecm module that effectivly shuts down your sensors and thats nothing they should ever be.
stunn effect is reinfoced by a collaps of fps if they hit you frontside. players with already weak fps can no longer aim at all due to this.
they need to loose lock if your crosshair is not pointing at the target for more than 0.75 sec

so just slight tweaks to move them from op to good, in gods name dont make them useless!!!

Edited by MahKraah, 25 November 2012 - 01:50 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

SO long as the missiles all hit I can go with this. Smoke... dissipate quickly. I don't know about the loss of lock idea. LRMs need to be on the target SSRMs just needed a solid lock. I would entertain trying it though.

[Asakara]

I dislike all of your options for this poll.

First, once locked, all streaks are always supposed to hit, read page 219 of TR 3050. That is in the rules.

Streaks just got their damage increased to what it should be, so that is a poor option to offer..

Therefore you should add the option which is in the TT rules that is not represented in MWO:

After you fire a volley of streaks you need to re-acquire lock-on again.

Finally, you should have an option to do nothing.

Edited by Asakara, 25 November 2012 - 02:03 PM.

[Koniving]

My option is none of the above. Although it is true I think they should do less damage than regular SRMs (when you think about it, they would either sacrifice range (fuel) or damage (explosive material within) to have room for a guidance system, my idea seems a bit more feasible than simply screwing back and forth with their damage, accuracy, and so on.

The issue is that they typically hit some part of the torso. Whether it's the center, left, or right, it's almost always a torso hit. Sometimes their accuracy was down and they'd spread out a bit, hitting other parts. That much damage + torso = certain death.

What hasn't been proposed is less ammunition per ton. (My own streak cat carries about 1,500 missiles and goes roughly 70 kph. Even with six launchers, I'll never run out even if I'm fighting everyone myself). Larger heat generation has also been suggested. Cutting their turn ability may help as well. Though these are not my proposition, it could be added to the poll.

I do not think that these missiles should be tinkered into not having their intended accuracy do indeed hit 100% of the time, and the perk of not firing when they cannot make the sharp angle. (Although at the moment some mechs can be running away from me and so long as they still had the lock for the fractions of seconds necessary, they could fire the streak and it would do a full upward 180 and hit me while he's facing away.)

I know, I know. "But changing nothing isn't nerfing them!" Hear me out. They keep their accuracy, their damage, maybe even their range. I would like to see Streaks have a random choice in body parts to target.

For example: I target you. My streaks fire. As they approach, the missiles randomly pick a body part to go for, with larger chances of going for limbs. Let's say there is a 15% chance for each arm or leg (60% total), with 12% chance for any of the 3 torsos (36% total), and just a 4% chance of going directly for the cockpit (And that accounts for all 100% of the possibilities).

Any limb that is destroyed is simply removed from the equation.

I think this would A) lower the frequency of torsos being rapidly destroyed. B ) Keep streak-nuts happy. C) Make it exciting when they score a cockpit hit. D) We'll see arms and legs get destroyed more often, which is good. It doesn't happen enough. E) Those of us fighting them streak-nuts will have a fighting chance. We can still fight with a leg or arm missing which will happen more often than instantly losing a side of our torsos.

Edited by Koniving, 25 November 2012 - 02:14 PM.

[Boris The Spider]

Codejack, on 25 November 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

I agree with the AMS issue, but even the accuracy doesn't seem OP to me; it still takes 4 volleys to get through the back armor of another Catapult with 6xSSRM2. A clever opponent can back up so they can shoot you while staying just out of your range. The SSRMs are blocked by things that don't block LRMs (boulders, walls, etc). They have high heat, a relatively long recycle time, low range, and you have to lock-on.

If they seriously nerf SSRMs, they will go on the junk heap with UACs and artemis.

Seriously? Apart from the actual percentage of mechs that can reverse faster than a steak cat, people were using streaks before the buff, they will use them after the nerf, in the same way lots of people are still using UAC's and Artermis. Streaks will get nerfed, buffed then nerfed again as the situation dictates, you need to get used to this because it is going to happen on a weekly basis to everything in the game.

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

Actually I think if you made them re-acquire lock after each salvo you'd need to decrease the time to acquire lock not increase it.. otherwise it would be too much of a nerf.
Another idea would be not to have a 'lock' indicator for them. Get the target in your crosshairs and press fire, if they are on target(crosshair turns red) they all lock and hit, if not they go into recycle without expending ammo.. very much like the TT version.

Tickdoff Tank, on 25 November 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

Someone else mentioned this idea, but I don't remember who it was or which thread it was in:

Once you fire the SSRMs you lose lock and must re-acquire lock before firing again. I think the idea is interesting, especially if you increased the lock on time for streaks a bit. You could still get off a solid hit but it would reduce the ROF of the weapon unless you are able to get lock again quickly. Additionally, if you tried to chian fire the SSRMs you would lose lock after the first shot, so you would need to link all of them together and 1 big burst of streaks causes less screen shake than the chin firing does.

I am not totally convinced that this is the solution, but it does offer some interesting possibilities.

Edited by Redmond Spiderhammer, 25 November 2012 - 02:13 PM.

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

Asakara, on 25 November 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

I dislike all of your options for this poll.

First, once locked, all streaks are always supposed to hit, read page 219 of TR 3050. That is in the rules.

Streaks just got their damage increased to what it should be, so that is a poor option to offer..

Therefore you should add the option which is in the TT rules that is not represented in MWO:

After you fire a volley of streaks you need to re-acquire lock-on again.

Finally, you should have an option to do nothing.

I agree.. though if you are trying to Mimic TT streaks then you need to add in the 'all or nothing' mechanic. Currently there is simply an 'all' mechanic.