703 replies to this topic

[Roosterfish]

Have any of you changed up your 4P load out since the heat/boating patch?

I'm seriously considering leaving the 6 MLas in my hunch but going with 3 SLas or 3 SPLas in my arms and head. I just don't have the fire discipline not to just bang them all at once and it's put me in trouble more than once. With the Smalls I'll help that some what and with Pulses I might do better against Lights.

[Hex Pallett]

Roosterfish, on 20 July 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

Have any of you changed up your 4P load out since the heat/boating patch?

I'm seriously considering leaving the 6 MLas in my hunch but going with 3 SLas or 3 SPLas in my arms and head. I just don't have the fire discipline not to just bang them all at once and it's put me in trouble more than once. With the Smalls I'll help that some what and with Pulses I might do better against Lights.

Why not keep the arm MLas, replace the rest witb SPL?

[Razornav]

I've been using Medium Mechs since the early days of the Beta and despite the occasional foray into the other classes I still go back to my Mediums. I love the combination of speed, performance and firepower the medium class offers and when used well they can excel.

Now I don't consider myself an expert by any means but I've had enough time in class to get a solid handle on what tends to work. My hangar is composed largely of mediums and all the viable variants that I've upgraded to expert level and I still go back to my beloved 4G(F) but lately I've been favoring a 4SP I've retooled recently for Indirect Fire Support.


http://mwo.smurfy-ne...63346c717a25440

Originally I was using SRM6s mounted in the torso but having the ability to reach out and touch someone cannot be stated enough.

I saw someone mention a similar build so I thought I would give it a try with some modification and I've been loving it! Last night in a PUG we got overrun and I managed to rack up 4 kills on Frozen City as the last mech standing and was using mostly lasers after the missiles softened them up. I managed to dodge and torso twist to distribute their fire evenly and used my speed to keep the range around 200M so LRMs could work. Wish I had recorded it because we won! Felt good doing that in a Hunchie.

It's a fairly expensive build due to investing into upgrades but the ROI is excellent. However, using this build requires you doing the following:

• Stay out of the initial engagements at 1000M maximum range and always jam on "R" whenever targets of opportunity present themselves. Shoot at everything you can! Always keep a close watch on the radar if something appears to eat a salvo of LRMs.
  
• Use your speed and small size to move around on the edge and fire on the move and from defilade cover whenever you can. At 750M you use TAG to mark your own targets to engage and it really helps!
  
• Focus Fire! You see teammates engaging a target mark it and bring the steel rain! Call out the "Target Letter" to other LRM equipped allies to increase the hurt.
  
• Keep your lasers in 2 groups (Left and Right) for better management and shooting from behind cover.
  
• If you have to close with your targets keep the range at 200M so LRMs are still effective and your MLasers are in the sweet spot. Combine with TAG to gain the extra accuracy. Having the speed tweak helps immensely with staying in that envelope but even the standard speed is more than enough.
  
• Blast the armor away with the LRMs and use your lasers to slice into the internals for the killing blow.
  
• Learn to torso twist to distribute fire evenly. Get used to firing and then twisting away while moving in another direction if you find yourself in knife range. Hit "X" to rapidly slow down to stop while turning to change direction and then accelerate off.

​Sticking to these rules and I've managed to rack up solid kills and help my team win. Give it a try and you may find it to your liking!

Edited by Razornav, 24 July 2013 - 08:05 AM.

[Grifthin]

Honestly if you want to do indirect fire support get yourself the hunchback 4J- with 20 missile tubes your much better suited to the role. My current build rolls with 6 Medium lasers and 2x LRM 10's at a nice 89km's per hour. I'm sure you agree that's pretty sweet.

[Razornav]

I have a 4J loaded similar to the one you list and I've found them great for that role but it suffers from the same vulnerability the other Hunchbacks (excluding 4SP) have. If you lose the hunch there goes a large amount of your firepower and utility and people will ALWAYS target that big hunch. When they make decals available I intend to place a bulls-eye on that hunch just for kicks if they have one.

When I use the 4SP with LRM5s I have a smaller profile without the hunch and I'm less likely to suffer a firepower loss from a RT strike. Plus I have more space for ammo and the missiles have a tighter punch when boosted with Artemis it seems. Overall I like the options using the 4SP gives me. Of course, can it really still be called a Hunchback without the hunch?

[Grifthin]

Razornav, on 01 August 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

I have a 4J loaded similar to the one you list and I've found them great for that role but it suffers from the same vulnerability the other Hunchbacks (excluding 4SP) have. If you lose the hunch there goes a large amount of your firepower and utility and people will ALWAYS target that big hunch. When they make decals available I intend to place a bulls-eye on that hunch just for kicks if they have one.

When I use the 4SP with LRM5s I have a smaller profile without the hunch and I'm less likely to suffer a firepower loss from a RT strike. Plus I have more space for ammo and the missiles have a tighter punch when boosted with Artemis it seems. Overall I like the options using the 4SP gives me. Of course, can it really still be called a Hunchback without the hunch?

Except your Payload is so small with LRM5's that a single AMS can negate it and you can lose the majority of your firepower just by taking your arms off. Honestly with a 4J and that kind of top speed you should be out of harms way decreasing the amount of fire you take by far. I like the 4sp but honestly it's a much better SRM platform than it is LRM. Even if you up'd the LRM's to LRM 10's you'd still be firing them in groups of 5.

[Elizander]

PPC Meta HBK? Replacing Gauss with UAC5.

HBK-4G 2xPPC 1xUAC5 2xUACAmmo

You can double tap the UAC5 for 10 damage if the target isn't moving and if they don't notice you you can keep pumping it before running back to hide. If you need to move, it still makes for a decent 25 damage pinpoint alpha at long range or 30 damage if you double tap.

You'll be spending a lot of time cooling off in the shade though cause it only has 10 DHS.

[Gremlich Johns]

Best match ever in my HBK-4G(F) w/AC20 (w/4 tons ammo), 3xMLas?

800 damage

and my team lost.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2600257

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 03 August 2013 - 08:23 AM.

[Reslin]

Here's my hunchback builds

Hunchback HBK-4G http://mwo.smurfy-ne...25f241387b4f12f
Hunchback HBK-4H http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b30ab88e8505c4b
Hunchback HBK-4P http://mwo.smurfy-ne...63746c20e860bca
Hunchback HBK-4J http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e3c6b72efc07033

I have a 2.16 K/D with my 4G build but it should be much higher. It's the mech I first bought and I was still learning the game. I climbed up to a positive K/D Ratio with it.

My 4H has a K/D of 2.68 and my 4P has a K/D of 3.96. K/D isn't everything of course but I also have a 1.50 W/L ratio and this is from pugging 90% of the time. These builds keep me alive and keep the kills flowing in. I usually only die if my team loses if it doesn't I stick through the entire game. I can output 300-800 damage per match and typically get at the very least one kill even if I go down. Oftentimes in "Stomp" games even if no one gets a kill I can usually bring one guy on the enemy team with me.

I am by no means the best player and don't think I'm one of the best players but I feel the need to share these builds. Why? They work for me and they may work for others. For the 4G build I also sometimes utilize a variant that uses machine guns and small lasers (with a medium in the head.) instead. This is another solid setup imo.

To be quite honest I love the Hunchback. It was my first mech and one of the mechs that drew me to the game. For some reason I fell in love with the hunchbacks design and playstyle. Currently I have no desire to pilot any other mech (save for the shadow hawk when it comes out). So I put a lot of time experimenting with my hunchbacks.

Keep up the builds. Would love to see other people's ideas and thoughts. Also feel free to criticize mine.

*Update* With my 4J build I have a 1.75 K/D with it. The 4J hunchback is quite capable as a close quarter brawler despite the large hunch size. If you're interested in the 4J but aren't interested in LRMs this build is effective and does work. It's been tested and tried. I am rather pleased with the results.

Edited by Reslin, 10 August 2013 - 10:26 PM.

[FEK315]

Why take a Hunchy over a Trebuchet?

[Reslin]

FEK315, on 09 August 2013 - 05:26 AM, said:

Why take a Hunchy over a Trebuchet?

Why not? The hunchback has greater torso twist which makes it more effective at dealing with lights and staying on target. The hunchback can make greater use of the AC20 which provides more "pinpoint" damage to a specific location giving it a powerful alpha strike. The hunchback can provide respectable firepower with a 250 standard engine whereas to make the most of a trebuchet you need an XL engine. Provide me a trebuchet build that can do everything my hunchback can but better and I'd consider it but as it stands I haven't seen any nor found any.

I am not knocking the trebuchet but the hunchback is very destructive in it's own right and a very powerful brawler. The Trebuchet, imo, hasn't come close to the hunchback in terms of how much damage it can put out along with survivability in comparison to the hunch in close to mid ranged combat. If I'm looking for a medium brawler the hunchback is my mech.

Note that most people find the hunch a weakness. I disagree. With my armor setup which is 46 in the right torso (thank you Koniving for this) the hunch can take a respectable beating. 90% of my games the hunch doesn't come off. In fact, some people will hit the hunch and realize it has more armor than normal then turn to focus on my torso. In situations like this they're spreading the damage out so I didn't take three volleys in my torso I took two. I'm also still capable of twisting to try to take hits that were aimed at the hunch to my other side. With how long my right torso can last.. this makes it even harder to take my hunch out.

A trebuchet with an XL engine will die if it loses a side torso. The side torso might be smaller but I still find them easy to hit. Side torsos are also weaker and easier to destroy then the center torso. This gives me an edge in a brawl. If they focus on my hunch and I focus on their side torso they're going to go down first in most situations. Given that most people's armor placement is 32 and my hunch is 46.

Also I don't even have to worry much about my back armor. The hunch hitbox is so large that the "2 armor" doesn't come into play. If they fire at me from behind they're going to hit my hunch. In the end the decision is up to you to decide but for me my hunchback's results speak for themselves.

Edited by Reslin, 09 August 2013 - 12:57 PM.

[Koniving]

FEK315, on 09 August 2013 - 05:26 AM, said:

Why take a Hunchy over a Trebuchet?

Height.

A Hunchback barely reaches the stomach height of an Atlas.

A Hunchback is wide and and its profile (due to the hunch) is long, thus it is fairly short.

The Trebuchet is almost as tall as the Atlas. Second spoiler here.

The Trebuchet not counting its arms, is extremely thin and its profile is almost paper thin, and thus it is very tall to compensate for that.

Koniving, on 07 August 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

I had Christopher King take a snap of my Golden Boy next to an Atlas. Though the Treb is almost as tall as an Atlas as shown in a past image dump of my Treb versus an Atlas, it turns out Goldenboy is quite a bit shorter, but significantly wider than a Treb. The Kintaro's CT is approximately as wide as a Trebuchet's entire torso.

Spoiler

This is gonna take some getting used to.

My Treb behind an Atlas.

Spoiler

"Why is the Trebuchet so tall?"

This is from the Battlemech: Kintaro thread where I talked about the Goldenboy and treating it like a Trebuchet.

Koniving, on 07 August 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

Now, at one point I talked with a new player. She played MW2 and MW3 only, knew almost nothing of tabletop. The topic was Trebuchet and its height.

I told her when she was choosing the Centurion, that its natural duty is to defend the Trebuchet. I then asked her about the Trebuchet's height compared to an Atlas, even though the Treb is half the weight. I was standing next to one to demonstrate

Her response was this: "It might be the same height but it's a lot skinnier. Just the arms make it look big. You said the Trebuchet's natural function is to lob LRMs, right?"
"Right."
"Then it needs to be tall to help it shoot LRMs over hills, much like my little brother's Hunchback 4J's launcher compared to his other Hunchbacks and their Hunches."
"But people throw on SRMs and brawl with it."
"That's their own fault." (In reality her actual response is "Then they're @#$%@#$ stupid.")

So I asked her, "What about the Centurion? It's almost as tall as a Highlander and twice as wide as a Trebuchet."
"You just said it's a Treb's bodyguard. Well then it has to be able to take abuse in the Treb's place. Since I was reading about it last night, the Centurion's also supposed to be able to dodge to the side, grab things with its arm, and isn't supposed to fight close range anyway. The game needs a button to let me bring that shield in front of me in different positions."

Just food for thought.

I never saw it that way before. Now I want a button to reposition that arm. I can think of 4 great positions. One, where it is now. Two, ahead of me, to protect the torso as I approach (but it'd block the missiles). Three, raised in front of the cockpit, as you never know when you need it. Four, held out as far left as possible with the claw extended to try and trip lights as I run by. <--Vid of a Lariat (wrestling clothesline) from an Atlas against a Hunchback.

Edited by Koniving, 09 August 2013 - 01:41 PM.

[Sovery_Simple]

Koniving, on 09 August 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

Snip

(edit: namesake)
Failure of design, the bodyguard mech is actually smaller than the target it's meant to bodyblock and guard. Aim high on the cent and you take the treb's cockpit out, and if you miss, you take the cent's cockpit out, win win either way.

Edited by Whoops, 09 August 2013 - 02:46 PM.

[Koniving]

Whoops, on 09 August 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

(edit: namesake)
Failure of design, the bodyguard mech is actually smaller than the target it's meant to bodyblock and guard. Aim high on the cent and you take the treb's cockpit out, and if you miss, you take the cent's cockpit out, win win either way.

You have a point.

The Centurion's 3 times wider than the Treb, plus it's got an arm to throw in the air. However in actuality, though, the Treb is supposed to run for the hills while the Centurion intercepts the threat. That's the reason the Trebuchet runs faster than the Centurion. The actual Trebuchet and Centurion, though, are both very tall and very skinny if you go by the art.

[Hauser]

Roosterfish, on 20 July 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

Have any of you changed up your 4P load out since the heat/boating patch?

Nope. Still got the 9. The hunch holds out allot longer now 40pts pinpoint alphas are a rarity.

There is still great value in putting 45 damage on to target. It can put allot of damaged mechs out of commission early. This keeps them from rotating out and providing fire from the second line.

The trick is to use the full 9 opportunistically. You can use them when you are cold and have a good shot and won't get another one for the next 5-10 seconds. When you are hot you can use the 7 or 8 depending on how hot you are.

You can also repeat 2x8 or 2x7 for more damage. You can use this these when you are cold and have a good shot for the next ~5 seconds but no shots afterwards.

You can also repeat 3x6 for even more damage. You can use this when you are cold and have a good shot for the next ~10 seconds but not good shots afterwards.

In all the other situations you can alternate the 6 on the hunch with the head and arm lasers. Or just the 6 when shooting from cover.

If you want something dead and have some health to spare you can also do two alphas for 90 damage. You'll be shut down for a while and have some CT damage but sometimes that can be worth it too.

The 4P plays style has always been that of an assassin rather then a brawler. The heat scale increases the importances of the assassin part. You have to plan your entrance, the type of attack you want to make, pull it off and then get out to cool down.

Edited by Hauser, 10 August 2013 - 05:12 AM.

[Cato Phoenix]

Roosterfish, on 20 July 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

Have any of you changed up your 4P load out since the heat/boating patch?

I'm seriously considering leaving the 6 MLas in my hunch but going with 3 SLas or 3 SPLas in my arms and head. I just don't have the fire discipline not to just bang them all at once and it's put me in trouble more than once. With the Smalls I'll help that some what and with Pulses I might do better against Lights.

Nope, I kept all 9 medium pulse.

[Elizander]

I'm playing this now:

HBK-4SP 4xMedium Pulse Laser 2xSRM6+A 3xSRM Ammo 1xAMS, 14xDHS

Since the SRM buffs, it's been great blasting through the backsides of XL mechs and getting kills. It's pretty durable unless I go Rambo. I got Sarah's Jenner so I sold one of my 300XLs and bought myself a 255XL.

[Deathlike]

Here are my thoughts on the Hunchback...

If you are going to make a left turn at a corner by yourself, especially to engage your target... don't. If you are able to decide the direction of where you are coming from a building, make sure you can make a right turn. The hunch isn't exposed first when you round that corner, allowing you to torso twist to allow the left torso/arm to absorb that blast instead. Also, the "hunch" is actually high enough to make the shot you want to make.. This is most useful for all Hunchbacks... minus the 4SP (which doesn't need to avoid this).

My 4G build for the "current meta":
HBK-4G

Now, I started using an AC20 build initially and that didn't allow me to be productive. The "Gaussback" is more productive where you can take long range potshots and get the heck out as needed. Also, unlike the 4J where you could probably fit more lasers in, the 4J is heat unsustainable... the 4G can run practically indefinitely and clean up as needed. The speed isn't great, and the hunch's weakness is magnified, but it becomes your responsibility to do the most with Gauss before you are taken down. The AC20 doesn't have quite the same weakness, but you are effectively forced to brawl, which you may not get the opportunity to do.

As a side note, I've noticed that whenever I create builds with the AC20 (especially when I used a Highlander), I tend to lose the ability to use Endo Steel and/or FF... and with Gauss I don't suffer from that. If you even give the AC20 1 ton of ammo to even out the AC20 vs Gauss tonnage, you spend "4 less crits" with the Gauss, even when you usually end up with 4 tons of AC20 ammo vs 3 tons of Gauss ammo... which still favors Gauss in terms of the # of shots you can pull off. In 12v12, it is less favorable for a Hunchback to brawl... and trying to bridge the gap in distance with a naturally slow mech is kinda unproductive.. so a Gaussback can actually be more productive over the Classic AC20back in the current meta. I'm sure people will disagree, but it's something to consider.

Of course... this is only useful for pugging and the 4SP is still the best Hunchback in higher level play..

Edit:
I would like to add that being the "left wingman" in a group is the best place to be when you're engaging the enemy....

Edited by Deathlike, 14 August 2013 - 10:38 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

FEK315, on 09 August 2013 - 05:26 AM, said:

Why take a Hunchy over a Trebuchet?

It really is more about the pilot. Some mechs just "drive" and "feel" better than others. I prefer the Hunchies and I do quite well in any of them. You prefer the trashbucket.

this is my best match in a 4G(F) with the AC20 and 3xMLas -- 800 damage. my team lost

Uploaded with ImageShack.com

another match with the same mech before the c-bill nerf:

Uploaded with ImageShack.com

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 16 August 2013 - 01:38 PM.

[Hex Pallett]

Dusting off my hunchies for the past few days. Made some alteration to my builds, downgraded my 4P's engine to STD250 and replaced the head laser with MPL, and also removed Artemis from my 4SP build and added a head laser. Recorded a few videos, will add them to the guide soon.