703 replies to this topic

[Thorasta]

Helmstif -

I'm playing with the 4SP now. I think the medium lasers need to be small - your build is way too screaming hot. Here's what I have right now - been digging it:

Stats:
45 Alpha (can alpha appx 6x without overheating)
6.0 Max sustained DPS (versus appx 4.5 in your build)
6 double heatsinks (vs. 3 on your build)

Upgrades:
Standard Armor
Endo-Steel
Double Heat Sink
Artemis (does this do ANYTHING with SRM6's? I haven't noticed a difference)

Armor:
Full armor everywhere, except -1 on each leg (using your spread for the rear torso's)

Head:
Small laser

Center Torso:
STD Engine 245
2x SRM Ammo +Artemis (only 2 opposed to your 3)

Right Torso:
2x double heatsink
Srm6 + Artemis

Left Torso:
Double Heatsink
SRM6
AMS
AMS Ammo

Right Arm
2x Double Heatsink
2x Small Laser

Left Arm
Double Heatsink
2x Small laser

Legs:
Nada


So I guess the main question is... Were you sacrificing *HUGE* heat problems simply for the 55 alpha?

Edit:
I might be overcooled now, but I cannot think of anything to swap out two of the double heatsinks with - except maybe a size 260 engine (which I won't do because I don't want to spend the cbills)

Edited by Thorasta, 06 January 2013 - 10:06 PM.

[Void Angel]

I recommend slapping the highest engine you can in any brawler Hunchback. I also recommend medium lasers because of the simple fact that 90m is just too short an effective range. With my P variant I tried using the small lasers for my torso, but even though the small lasers were much cooler, I found that the added dps and flexibility of the medium lasers was worth more than the efficiency of the smalls. With small lasers, I was forced to get so close in order to deal any damage that I was too much at risk, while at the same time I'd often deal poor damage because of the range. While I do have to exercise heat discipline with my 8 medium lasers (the two on the arms are more for taking shots in passing and hunting lights,) they hit a lot harder - and I can still fire the torso array multiple times before overheating. It's not a "fire on cooldown, run at them" build, but if I wanted that, I'd buy a catapult and SRM boat it.

From what I understand, Artemis tightens the spread of SRMs, but I haven't used it yet.

Edited by Void Angel, 07 January 2013 - 02:47 PM.

[Ravennus]

I agree with Void Angel... I've been leveling my Hunchbacks for the past week or two, and you DEFINITELY want to at least put in a Standard 250 engine. (NEVER EVER XL)

Other than speed, there is a big reason... all in-engine double heatsinks, up to the 10th one, actually count as 2x and not x1.4.
There is an error in the way the mechlab calculates it, but a dev confirmed that the first 10 heatsinks in an engine count for double (if DHS obviously).


I also recommend the medium laser on the 4sp. Even one in the head, as you will end up a zombie more than you expect.
My build actually only has 11 DHS (10 2x in-engine), so it counts as about 21.4 single heatsinks.
Unless I go crazy, this is enough for me. You just need to learn some patience and shot restraint.

I put both arms on seperate groups, and fire based on convergance. If you constantly alpha them, other mechs and obstacles often get in the way and it's wasted.
The 5th one in the head I don't us until I lose an arm (or both).


As for the Artemis, I noticed a big difference when I upgraded. Some don't like it and are content to just spam SRMs pointblank... but for me it gave me so extra range to play with and the missiles converge a lot tighter for aiming at specific parts.
They are still wonky though... you have to learn what ranges the missiles converge or widen.



For my 4P, which I just started today... I tried both the MLAS and SLAS builds, and settled on the SLAS build.
It depends a bit more on proper teamplay and backup, but you can alpha over and over and over and do a lot more DPS than just a few alphas with the MLAS.
I tried both, and it's just a personal preference. Both were good, but I had to chainfire the MLAS one a lot in order to not overheat when in the thick of things. Also, one misplaced alpha REALLY hurt.
I could also only fit a max of 18 DHS in my MLAS 4P, while I could fit 20 DHS in my SLAS 4P. I'm sure that helps as well.
The increased fire rate and shorter beam time also seemed to help me get better precision damage.



Either way, I want to thank Helmstiff for his great guide!
It is a fantastic jumping off point! While I didn't copy the builds entirely, they still gave me a great base to build my own versions on. Cheers!

[Lexkun]

Hello guys,

I'm fairly new at MWO and only played around 130 matches so far. Most of them in a hunchy as it was my first buy after I had the c-bills. Half way through I switched from my initial 2xLLAS 4P to a 4SP for a more close combat experience and never looked back since

After spending hours in the mechlab and testing different configs I endet with this one now:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7c3c5098f9f6648

Any thoughts on this loadout?

I use the Artemis system because somehow it feels like I get more focused hits an the big guys. But could be my imagination because of the 750k I spend on it.
The MLAS in the head is for the zombie times I usually end up.
Heat isn't really a big problem as I don't alpha at all. (2xMLAS per mouse button, SRM on third mouse button gives me good control over heat, faceroll on mouse for manual alpha without the head laser as its only for emergencys)
As for the AMS ... does it work on the damn SSMRs?
Any suggestions?

thanks in advance
Lex

[Ravennus]

Lexkun, on 08 January 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:

Hello guys,

I'm fairly new at MWO and only played around 130 matches so far. Most of them in a hunchy as it was my first buy after I had the c-bills. Half way through I switched from my initial 2xLLAS 4P to a 4SP for a more close combat experience and never looked back since

After spending hours in the mechlab and testing different configs I endet with this one now:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7c3c5098f9f6648

Any thoughts on this loadout?

I use the Artemis system because somehow it feels like I get more focused hits an the big guys. But could be my imagination because of the 750k I spend on it.
The MLAS in the head is for the zombie times I usually end up.
Heat isn't really a big problem as I don't alpha at all. (2xMLAS per mouse button, SRM on third mouse button gives me good control over heat, faceroll on mouse for manual alpha without the head laser as its only for emergencys)
As for the AMS ... does it work on the damn SSMRs?
Any suggestions?

thanks in advance
Lex

That's a solid build for sure! Very close to mine and seems to be pretty iconic for the 4SP.

I like the Artemis as well, and I've actually spectated an SRM boat playing after I died, and his missiles where definitely going much more wide... especially in the first 100m. They are still effective as a 'shotgun', but I think if you only have 1 or 2 SRM6s then Artemis is worth it. It's personal preference though.

Here is my build... definitely runs a little hotter.... but everything else is fully upgraded with max armor and the 260 engine.
If you have some trigger discipline, I haven't found the 11 DHS to be too bad. I just didn't like what I had to give up for just 1 or 2 more heatsinks.
I also have more ammo for the SRMs, which come in handy.

HBK-4SP



OH!! One recommendation I need to give you.... swap out the ammo from the Centre Torso to the legs.
Trust me on this. Not many people will try to leg you, and the last thing you want when your centre torso armor is down, is an ammo explosion. You will last longer with it in the legs.

Edited by Ravennus, 08 January 2013 - 02:04 AM.

[Lexkun]

Thanks for the suggestion with the ammo. Actually I thought that a crit to the unarmoured torso will kill you before the ammo gets a chance to explode anyway so I keept it there
Another idea was that if my leg exploded the damage form the ammo explosion would be transferred to the torso.
But I have no idea so I will use your suggestion.

Regarding the artemis ... I prefer the focus over the spread. Helps to conserve ammo (first reason why I only use 2t).
Also I'm not experienced enough to run with 11 DHS and with my 13 I am less dependent on SMR spam (second reason why I only use 2t)
As I'm not using the alpha directly and try to make every volley count this is my third reason
The forth reason is ... I just don't find a way to free a ton ...
Luckily, most of the time I end up zombie before I use up all my missiles

Any ideas about the AMS regarding SSMRs?

Best Regards
Lex

Edit: Btw, what about armour distribution? There was something flying around about "the back is hard to hit so put more in the front".

Edited by Lexkun, 08 January 2013 - 02:34 AM.

[Hex Pallett]

Lexkun, on 08 January 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

Thanks for the suggestion with the ammo. Actually I thought that a crit to the unarmoured torso will kill you before the ammo gets a chance to explode anyway so I keept it there
Another idea was that if my leg exploded the damage form the ammo explosion would be transferred to the torso.
But I have no idea so I will use your suggestion.

Regarding the artemis ... I prefer the focus over the spread. Helps to conserve ammo (first reason why I only use 2t).
Also I'm not experienced enough to run with 11 DHS and with my 13 I am less dependent on SMR spam (second reason why I only use 2t)
As I'm not using the alpha directly and try to make every volley count this is my third reason
The forth reason is ... I just don't find a way to free a ton ...
Luckily, most of the time I end up zombie before I use up all my missiles

Any ideas about the AMS regarding SSMRs?

Best Regards
Lex

Edit: Btw, what about armour distribution? There was something flying around about "the back is hard to hit so put more in the front".

Did you forget something? I have 13 DHS as well as 3 tons of ammo....

AMS will shoot SSRM for sure. If a light fires a single SSRM2 to you from like 150m+ then chance is both missiles would go down. So boat&brawl is the rule of SSRM.

Speaking of armor, my general rule is a roughly 3:1 front:rear armor ratio, with the exception of right torso on most Hunchbacks. The whole hunch is considered front torso and the rear torso is a tiny area, so I put 44 on the front and 4 on the rear.

[Lexkun]

So I assume the 4SP is the only Hunchy with same armor distribution in both side torso.

Also, I'm pretty sure your build uses 11 DHS (10 internal from the 260 engine)

If AMS works against SSRM I will keep it ... I hate those

[Hex Pallett]

Lexkun, on 08 January 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

So I assume the 4SP is the only Hunchy with same armor distribution in both side torso.

Also, I'm pretty sure your build uses 11 DHS (10 internal from the 260 engine)

If AMS works against SSRM I will keep it ... I hate those

260 is for 4P...4SP runs an 245.

[Novawrecker]

Void Angel, on 07 January 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

I recommend slapping the highest engine you can in any brawler Hunchback.

I do not. There is no clear cut advantage of putting a 260 engine on a hunchy. The most you'll get out of it if about 2.5 kph more than a 250 (and that's with speed tweak). 250 is a much better choice to min/max. The weight saved can go into ammo, armor, heatsinks, etc.

[Void Angel]

I use the standard values for rear armor. The additional protection to the front from swapping armor down to only a few points is negligible, since most of your damage is going to be taken from the front (hopefully.) Conversely, if you swap your armor down to four points you end up taking possible critical hits from even a casual swipe of a light's lasers - and they're going to be able to get around you.

[Ravennus]

Novawrecker, on 08 January 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

I do not. There is no clear cut advantage of putting a 260 engine on a hunchy. The most you'll get out of it if about 2.5 kph more than a 250 (and that's with speed tweak). 250 is a much better choice to min/max. The weight saved can go into ammo, armor, heatsinks, etc.

I somewhat agree, especially since the 250 gives you 10 in-engine DHS that actually count for 2x instead of 1.4x like all the other DHS.
But in my case, there was honestly NOTHING else that the 1 extra ton would give me as I had all my critical slots filled.

Also, it seems that extra speed also increases you turning ability, which I found essential. A few extra KPH might not mean much at first, but in a turning battle I found it pretty useful.


And actually, it's a 3.2 KPH difference WITHOUT speed tweak, and 3.6 KPH difference with speed tweak.

Still not saying one or the other is better... it just depends on your build and what works better for you.
For me, I'm often pretty content with my build and the 1 ton difference is worth it as I don't have a lot of other things to spend it on and don't have extra room for more DHS. So a 260 it is.

[Violent Tendencies]

Anyone have a decent 4J build? Im working on my third variant and I bought a 4J and not really tearing it up with what I've got.
Thanks!

[Hex Pallett]

Violent Tendencies, on 19 January 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

Anyone have a decent 4J build? Im working on my third variant and I bought a 4J and not really tearing it up with what I've got.
Thanks!

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bb52ae41243b130

Pros: Agile (in the sense of an LRM boat).

Cons: Fragile - largest hunch ever, XL engine; limited ammo - you only have 18 shots so make them count.

Move along your pack, but don't push too hard into brawling range. Find the biggest target on the field and KEEP I TAGGED and IN YOUR VIEW, and rain down your twin LRM10 on him.

Edited by Helmstif, 19 January 2013 - 11:53 AM.

[Sh4dow78]

Violent Tendencies, on 19 January 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

Anyone have a decent 4J build? Im working on my third variant and I bought a 4J and not really tearing it up with what I've got.
Thanks!

try this :
HBK-4J

[Hex Pallett]

Scarface1978, on 19 January 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

try this :
HBK-4J

I think we could all agree that brawling with a 4J is a bad idea.

[Grifthin]

Violent Tendencies, on 19 January 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

Anyone have a decent 4J build? Im working on my third variant and I bought a 4J and not really tearing it up with what I've got.
Thanks!

I normally roll in something similiar to this

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...13ae040dc010e12

follow assault groups, fling missiles, and use medium lasers when at close range.

[slayerkdm]

Im normally a big alpha strike guy, but I have settled on SLAS on the 4sp. I like to never overheat and have continous fire. I run 260, as I think speed is key on a hunch. Much like previous posters, Im not sure 250 to 260 is that big a deal, but I dont have use for that extra ton either. I do miss the range of the MLAS sometimes, but overall, my success rate is higher with the smalls. I think this is really a play style thing, more than a which is best thing.

I really believe the 4sp is one of the best mechs to play in MWO. At 92.7 KPH, it can fight anything from lights to Assaults. The spread of the SRM6 really gives lights pause when fighting you, most times they run off for something slower and less deadly to fight.

I really hope the MG buff is noticable, as I like my 3MG/3MPLAS build. Now Im running a AC20 build, not my favorite, but the game is changing, and the MG build was lagging farther and farther behind optimum.

[Hex Pallett]

Updated to keep up with patch. Also now all variants are included.

[Void Angel]

Helmstif, on 19 January 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

I think we could all agree that brawling with a 4J is a bad idea.

I agree; the 4J can be set up to be a brawler, just like any hunchback - however, the 4SP is superior in nearly all respects, being nearly equal in armament and substantially more difficult to disable (since it does not have a hunch.) Frankly, I found myself wishing that I had bought the 4SP instead, because that chassis is more flexible for the cost of one laser mount. But the 4J is still a fun fire support 'mech, and that's what I recommend you use it for: I recommend this build for a 4J fire support role; you're fast enough to keep your distance from most heavies and all Assaults, and can maneuver around the battlefield as you see fit. You don't have much in the way of close firepower, but you do have the speed necessary to not be completely at the mercy of lights and pursuit 'mechs. All around, an excellent way to go, and capable of high damage if used right - or so I found it myself (actually, I didn't use an XL engine because I'd decided to sell of the chassis - and I found that the slow speed of a stock hunchback engine was the main weakness of the build.)