208 replies to this topic

[RumRunner151]

You pull the chicken little act because your lame streak cat will be more challenging to use. Unfortunately for you the sky is not falling because you chose to ignore:

Quote

Your ECM in counter mode will:Cancel the effect of one enemy ECM on Mechs (friendly or enemy) within range of your ECM (180 m)

And:

Quote

If you are not being disrupted by an enemy ECM, any hidden Mech on the other team that you hit with a TAG laser will be revealed as if it wasn’t being hidden. This allows you and your teammates to target and lock on it for as long as you can keep the TAG beam trained on it.

[Clay Pigeon]

ECM on a jenner?


No need for any other mech, fellas.

[Blark]

It wont be op, adapt!
It will be easy to counter a ecm jenner:

1) shoot of the giant ears little legs
2) Work with your team to focus the jenner down, its a team game!
3) It has very limited range, so simply keep your distance!
...

sorry, I had to

[Alex Wolfe]

PGI, come on now. Please.

Jenner is a 35 ton mech (heaviest light), with a tiny profile, excellent hardpoints, good torso twist, jump jets and easily available speed cap. It's a complete package. I can't think of what more I'd want from a light mech when it comes to combat. It's a skirmisher and a killer.

It'll be very hard if not impossible to top it with any future light release for those reasons. Please don't buff it further. For the love of Blake, stop. Don't give it ECM. Don't give it anything more. It's enough to be the most perfect light combat killing machine space robot. It's plenty.

No to ECM Jenners . We have a Raven, that already is extremely hard to justify taking over a Jenner. Would somebody please think of the Raven? Or any future light mechs, at all?

P.S.

How come the most popular Commando is the one that gets ECM as well, and not one of the "poor" variants thrown a bone instead?

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 27 November 2012 - 03:12 PM.

[Goose]

Will we see Jenners' shrink their engines to make all this bling fit?

[vifoxe]

Kobold, on 27 November 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

They achieve this by creating a piece of new equipment that completely breaks two categories of weapon systems? How does that work?

Validation: http://mwomercs.com/...omplaint-thread

That's not the point I'm trying to make. You need to stop thinking that the lore/TT rules are like some holy scripture.

[p00k]

RumRunner151, on 27 November 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

You pull the chicken little act because your lame streak cat will be more challenging to use. Unfortunately for you the sky is not falling because you chose to ignore:

my lame streak cat?
what's this? i haven't spent a single minute in any of the catapults at all? damn, must be a fancy streak cat


fact is, streaks are the only reliable way to damage lagshielded jenners now. i run them on my atlas, which is what i play primarily (mainly the D variant; 2 streaks hardly makes for a streakboat)

kneejerk harder

[Red squirrel]

Why on earth the D variant.
This could at least have been a reason to use the K variant.

[BanditRaptor]

Giving the Jenner ECM is completely absurd. The Jenner is already hands-down the best light mech, it doesn't need anymore boosting.

I use nothing but light mechs, and I already find myself not using anything but the Jenner. It has the best hardpoints, best loadouts, best everything. Other mechs need a reason to take them.

The Raven already suffers from ****-poor hardpoints, useless NARC, and a number of other issues, don't take ECM away from being one of it's biggest selling points by handing it out willy-nilly to far, far more mechs than should get such a powerful item.

The commando... if it wasn't the D, I wouldn't have a problem. That commando variant is the streak commando, it's already a light hunter, give another variant some love, for pete's sake.

[Kobold]

vifoxe, on 27 November 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

That's not the point I'm trying to make. You need to stop thinking that the lore/TT rules are like some holy scripture.

Which point?

The point that PGI has shown themselves to be very adept at predicting the obvious outcome of their choices (such as the relationship between increased rate of fire and low heat weapons), or their design choices that allow a 1.5 ton piece of equipment to completely neuter entire enemy mech archetypes just by standing close enough to them?

[Asakara]

If only there was a way to counter ECM?!?

Oh wait, I can scroll down more on that page:

Between the ECM’s 180 m range, and the 200 m range for detecting Mechs hidden by ECM, there’s a 20 m radius band where you can detect a hidden Mech, target it, and get a missile lock and/or share the targeting with your teammates.

If you are not being disrupted by an enemy ECM, any hidden Mech on the other team that you hit with a TAG laser will be revealed as if it wasn’t being hidden. This allows you and your teammates to target and lock on it for as long as you can keep the TAG beam trained on it.

If you press the button to toggle the mode of your ECM (‘J’ by default), you can switch from “disrupt” mode to “counter” mode and back again.



Counter mode provides none of the benefits of disrupt mode. What it does do is counter enemy ECMs that are in disrupt mode.

Your ECM in counter mode will:

• Cancel the effect of one enemy ECM on Mechs (friendly or enemy) within range of your ECM (180 m)
  
  • However, two enemy ECMs affecting the Mech would require two counter ECMs, three would require three, etc.
• Completely cancel all effects of an ECM in disrupt mode equipped on an enemy Mech that is within range (180 m)
  
  • Mechs countered in such a way have their ECM symbol replaced with a crossed out version.
    
  • You can only counter one enemy ECM in this manner.
    
    • I.e. If there are two enemy Mechs with disrupt mode ECMs in range, one will be countered while the other will function normally. But two counter ECMs will counter two disrupt ECMs, etc.

[Panzerjotun]

The only defense against the Jenner zergs is SSRM. Now they will be immune to that as well? This is beyond absurd if it goes live. And as other posters have pointed out will make the commando/raven/cicada even more 2nd rate.

[Mawai]

... and here I was thinking that ECM would just make your mech harder to lock on to, longer to acheive a scan on and a shorter range to show up on the mini-map. It sounds like what PGI is implementing are more like active focused target jamming rather than electronic counter measures.

[p00k]

Asakara, on 27 November 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

If only there was a way to counter ECM?!?

Oh wait, I can scroll down more on that page:

yes, you can have someone else with an ecm around to counter it
unfortunately, if you look at what else can carry ecm...

• Commando COM-2D
  
• Raven RVN-3L
  
• Jenner JR7-D
  
• Cicada CDA-3M
  
• Atlas AS7-D-DC

none of those mechs except the d-dc poses any threat to a jenner

meaning, in order to counter it, you need a mech that poses a threat to a jenner next to one of those mechs running an ecm
meaning, 2 mechs to counter 1 jenner

but since we drop 8v8 not 8v4 (usually)...

meaning, 2 mechs to counter 1 jenner, leaving a second enemy jenner also running ecm, to nullify your counter

it's good that you're trying to think of ways to counter it, but think it through all the way

Edited by p00k, 27 November 2012 - 03:19 PM.

[Pale Jackal]

ECM sounds very interesting.

But c'mon PGI, I finally thought I was going to have a reason to use a Raven 2X over a Jenner.

Currently, the only thing that distinguishes Ravens from Jenners is that Ravens are slower (a huge negative), and that the 4X can mount ballistics. The Raven can also act as an LRM15 boat (If you go really slow), and the 3L can mount 2 SRM6s (though I actually hate the 1-at-a-time fire on the SRM6, as it makes duelling other lights difficult.)

[Zylo]

Lights getting ECM will really only be OP if collisions are not also returned to the game at the same time. I really hope PGI plans to return collisions at the same time ECM is added because that will actually keep things balanced since lights won't need to worry about the streak cats but they won't be impossible to kill if they are lagged out either.

Lights running around with a lag shield and ECM? No problem, just have the lights on your team crash into them and focus fire that enemy light while it's face down on the ground.

I suspect thermal vision sniping will still work as the sniper is outside of the range of the ECM disrupt protection of the light mech and that light mech is still generating heat. I sure am glad I never bought a Catapult-A1.

[Kobold]

Asakara, on 27 November 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

If only there was a way to counter ECM?!?

I prefer not to play in a meta that has a piece of equipment that can completely neuter entire weapon systems, or is so powerful to make it mandatory that people carry MORE of it to counter the first use of it.

Also, I'm still mildly annoyed that this is wildly more powerful in terms of actual tangible effects than it is in TT. Different functionality? Sure, fine. Wildly more valuable functionality? Annoying.

[Asakara]

p00k, on 27 November 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

yes, you can have someone else with an ecm around to counter it
unfortunately, if you look at what else can carry ecm...

• Commando COM-2D
  
• Raven RVN-3L
  
• Jenner JR7-D
  
• Cicada CDA-3M
  
• Atlas AS7-D-DC

none of those mechs except the d-dc poses any threat to a jenner


meaning, in order to counter it, you need a mech that poses a threat to a jenner next to one of those mechs running an ecm
meaning, 2 mechs to counter 1 jenner

but since we drop 8v8 not 8v4 (usually)...

meaning, 2 mechs to counter 1 jenner, leaving a second enemy jenner also running ecm, to nullify your counter

it's good that you're trying to think of ways to counter it, but think it through all the way

You mean like 1 jenner to counter 1 jenner?

Or 2 jenners to counter 2 jenners?

[p00k]

Kobold, on 27 November 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

I prefer not to play in a meta that has a piece of equipment that can completely neuter entire weapon systems, or is so powerful to make it mandatory that people carry MORE of it to counter the first use of it.

forget the meta. asakara's counter requires 2 mechs to counter 1. when it becomes 2 mechs against 2, the jenners now have 2 ecms versus the "counter" team's 1. counter becomes useless

Asakara, on 27 November 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

You mean like 1 jenner to counter 1 jenner?

Or 2 jenners to counter 2 jenners?

exactly the point. the only way to fight jenners will be...to take your own jenners. sounds like loads of fun, huh?

Edited by p00k, 27 November 2012 - 03:23 PM.

[Fate 6]

Xelrah, on 27 November 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

Just like they are nerfing gauss for months now?

And buffing Flamers and MG's and pulses and ACs. Soon^tm