145 replies to this topic

[Ghogiel]

Sifright, on 28 November 2012 - 04:25 AM, said:

I can't wait to see ECM introduced into the game.

So many light mech pilots are going to see my A1 and go

"hohohohoho, Foolish enemy running a streak cat I shall eat him for dinner."

They will be in for a shock when I anhillate them with a 36 missile salvo of SRMS D:

Nah. They will see the A1 and check it's pay load in the sensor readout and go

"hohohoho, He'll never hit me with all those SRMs if I stay at 150m. "

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Why we ever need Raven if you can mount ECM on Jenner?Delete that mech.Now is unusable -.-

[Clay Pigeon]

Raven L and Atlas double D should be the only variants in the game currently with ECM support.

[Khobai]

Quote

As a Support lover, you are wrong. Most 'mechs have their weapons in their arms

no they dont. most mechs have their main weapons in their torsos.

[AlexWildeagle]

Khobai, on 28 November 2012 - 06:03 AM, said:

Im not going overboard. You only need 2-3 ECM mechs per team since ECM shields ALL friendly mechs inside the bubble, so no mech inside the bubble can be detected further than 200m away. As long as you stay near a friendly mech with ECM you cant be targetted at all by LRMs. So there will be no targets at all for LRMs if ECM is used right.



LB10X certainly! Cluster rounds should do way more damage than normal AC/10 slugs. SRMs not so much because SRM launchers weigh next to nothing compared to LRM launchers. As a general rule, damage should be proportional to the weight of the weapon system. Also its still possible to point-blank someone in the same location with all your SRMs. So I think SRMs are more or less perfect.

Really? LRM20 10 tons 34 damage
Gaus rifle 15 tons 15 damage
AC20 14 tons 20 damage
Large laser 5 tons 9 damage

I see no correlation at all

[deputydog]

Vote no to jenners. They are combat scouts, not recon. If they get ecm there is no reason for a raven.. at all..

[AlexWildeagle]

ironie....what are you trying to say you're ronie? Or maybe you were looking for irony? I'm dumb as a brick? pot meet kettle.

And I played LRMs for a while, hit "R", find heaviest mech you can, fire, still there? fire again
Friendly mech getting swarmed, hit "R", fire, fire again.

Rinse and repeat until ordiance expended. Nice point total return on investment.

[Vassago Rain]

Vila deVere, on 28 November 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

Raven should be the only light with ECM, IMO.

Then ECM will be useless, because the raven is useless...

[Sifright]

Ghogiel, on 28 November 2012 - 06:08 AM, said:

Nah. They will see the A1 and check it's pay load in the sensor readout and go

"hohohoho, He'll never hit me with all those SRMs if I stay at 150m. "

Experience tells me otherwise.

Besides when I can core a hunchback in a single salvo and blast out a cataphract in two I'm not exactly worried that I will do sub-optimal damage to a jenner or another light when I'll still be able to knock it to pieces in a couple of shotgun salvos by leading it.

SRM 6's converge at what you point at when you lead targets that aren't in close brawling range which often means you end up getting a large spread this is a problem against larger mechs but against lights you still take them apart.

[Clay Pigeon]

Vassago Rain, on 28 November 2012 - 06:23 AM, said:

Then ECM will be useless, because the raven is useless...

ECM is slated to be very powerful. It will be enough to make the raven useful. Giving it to the jenner D means there's no reason for any other light to exist.

[Moorecroft]

Captain Midnight, on 28 November 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

They also weren't getting quadruple digit damage and single-handedly winning games on a REGULAR BASIS.

Yeah, there were light pilots regularly getting piles of damage. Maybe not 1000+, and maybe not winning games single handedly on the regular, but to be fair I don't really think that's happening now, either... It was actually easier then, since the worse pilots would always end up on their *** and were easy kills (often for your teammates, since you lure them to your lines and then facecharge them). We got crunched more, sure, but I don't think I've seen that much of a damage decrease since dropping collisions.

Honestly, once they fix the jumpjets (so that you need 3+ to be really useful), I'll be a relatively happy raven 3L pilot. I'd rather not see the Jenner get ECM, but that is for purely selfish purposes. 3L @ 140KPH with 2 ssrms, ECM and a bunch of lasers? Good times.

Wonder if I can put two ECM on, one for ECM and one for ECCM...

Also the raven has a much more dangerous hitbox than the Jenner. If i die, it's regularly from losing my RT/LT, or even Rear-CT (Even when generally facing targets) in my ravens, whereas Jenners are almost always dead via CT. Which has more armour.

Edited by Moorecroft, 28 November 2012 - 06:50 AM.

[Crayzed Lyon]

Johnathan McKenna, on 28 November 2012 - 04:28 AM, said:

I'm just confused as to why ECM is going on the JR7-D, it seem's to me that it would make a lot more sense on the JR7-K considering it loses a weapon hardpoint and the only jenner in lore that can carry ecm is based on the K.

I'd also like to see it on the K variant instead of the D. The K also has one more module slot than the D. Not really useful now, but later... it'll be tasty

[Kousagi]

Like, I don't understand why everyone is crying about the jenner getting ECM along with the raven. As both of those variants that get the ECM have pretty much the same hardpoints. The jenner gets a edge in lasers while the raven gets a edge in missles. As the jenner is 4 energy in the armrs and 2 missle in CT, where the raven is 2 energy in arms 1 side torse and 1 missile in the side torso, 1 in arms. Both mechs can mount the top speed engine for their class too. Which any scout should know as the 280 with speed tweak, since speed is caped at 140, that puts both mechs at 141.

The only thing the jenner really has over the raven is jumpjets and one can argue their usefulness as i see more jenners die cause of their jumpjets then live. So really all it comes down to is, Do you want a better missile setup? or a better laser setup? And both sides are only marginally better then the other in their area.

Edited by Kousagi, 28 November 2012 - 07:12 AM.

[Fusea]

Khobai, on 28 November 2012 - 06:10 AM, said:

no they dont. most mechs have their main weapons in their torsos.

Lets run down the list shall we?
Commando, center torso slots, and arm slots, and it isn't exaclty SLs in those arms
Jenner, center torso slots and arm slots,
Raven, Slots all over the bloody place, haven't counted them cause I haven't picked one up.
Cicada, Torso slots... so thats 1 to you.
Centurion, heavy weapons all in that right arm, lasers in CT and missiles in LT. So arm shots still count.
Hunchback, 2 arm slots, giant piles of torso slots... thats 2 to you, but most hunchies have lots of HS in the arms cause the torsos are crowed
Dragon, Heavy weapons in the RA, energy in the LA, and slots in the torsos
Catapult, Well the Gaussapult has gauss rifles in the torso... but the rest have those GIANT arms full of missiles.
Cataphract, Lots of toys everywhere, but still got those critical hard points in the arms...
Awesome, one arm with slots everything else in the torso... lets count that one as well.
Atlas, Arm slots for energy weapons, the rest in the chest... so you get another.

So I count 4 out of 11 with the big guns in the chest. And of those, only the Cicada has no arm mounted weapons. The Cicada is also the only one who isn't going to be cramming the arms full with everything that wont fit in that rather crowded chest. So out of 11 chassis, we have exactly 1 that isn't affected in any way by having its arms blown off. Even the 4 with all the heavy stuff in the chest will notice the loss of an arm in their overall effectiveness. All of the rest take a hit, and many of them take a big hit with the loss of one or more arm.

Any damage you can deal to any enemy mech (thinking about those games where teammates shot me in the *** here) on the field is good damage. 3 points delt to the left arm of anything on the field is 3 points less armor for the brawlers to contend with when they start doing their job. And of course... if I think I'm only going to hit with 3 missiles out of 30, I just hold the shot for a better target.

At any rate, the ECM Jennies are perfectly acceptable to me. I think of them as an encouragement to teamwork and situational awareness.

[Socondor]

It is because they are violating the BT Timeline by doing so. (at least this is the main issue for me)
And there is no explanation give, why this is done.

Also, when you know how to use them a scout with JJ is much more difficult to get than an Scout without.
But this (like most things with scouts) is based on the pilot.

Kousagi, on 28 November 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

Like, I don't understand why everyone is crying about the jenner getting ECM along with the raven. .

[Zyllos]

Here is my proposal on ECM and supporting EW equipment:

- Allow BAP to work against targets being shielded by ECM. It is already extremely reduced effectiveness due to ECM reducing the base sensor range to 200m (BAP would increase it to 250m). If the ECM is within the jamming distance (180m), then allow the ECM to remove the effectiveness of BAP, which is what is already planned.

- Change NARC to give target lock without LoS for 60s. Then leave the current implementation in that ECM shielded targets with NARC on him/her to not give their location away. Also, for the future of PPCs, make the EMP blast destroy NARCs on targets either by hitting the PPC close to the NARC target or actually being hit by PPCs.

- Only allow select mechs to run in Disrupt mode (Raven and Atlas). All other ECM equippable mechs could be allowed to run Counter mode ECM only. This will regulate various variants as ECM/EW hunters while keeping the ECM/EW variants unique in their roles.

- Keep all other proposed changes/additions for ECM.

Edited by Zyllos, 28 November 2012 - 07:35 AM.

[Lupin]

I am a Jenner pilot and I think it is a bad idea to allow them ECM and steels thunder a bit from Raven.
Raven does have better selection of hard points, but at the moment being over powered by Jenner.

[PropagandaWar]

Im fine with them giving jenners ECM but only after they Fix em. Once they get hit like every other mech and once they fall its fine.

[GhostofBG]

The "why" is simple. It's the fix to the obvious bug that allows Jenners to be killed. Clearly not working as intended. Hence, ECM.

[cmopatrick]

btw, i'm interested to know why some folks think any atlas variant in this time frame gets ECM... the 7-Dr is the only one sarna has and it comes post ji-had. the other TRO resources i have access to agree.

(part of the edit is because this forum acted like the word i have had to hyphenate, "ji-had," needs censoring. also added the following:)

unfortunately, i did find one reference to the atlas d-dc in canon: it is a Star League era 'Mech. However, since the AS7-D-DC is in the same reference work as the Warhammer and Marauder, if they give access to the unseen, i have no objection to an atlas having one... IF they also give us both those mechs. otherwise, the rest of canon makes it rather complicated to include it; the presumption is that it is already extinct... otherwise, the helm core would not have been needed for the Capellans to engineer the Guardian ECM.

Edited by cmopatrick, 28 November 2012 - 08:20 PM.