191 replies to this topic

[WogolfatTheFool]

The community is what matters when facing cheaters. If the community is strong in the sense they dont talk to people like their 12, or rage over it...they can slow it. By this I mean if a cheater is on ones team, doing FF damage on that hacker and putting your gamer pride aside to fight for the game itself. Its like when a group of thugs go into a nice neighborhood....people in the neighborhood wont just sit around and protect just their house. They fight for the whole thing....even if that means fighting for the cranky old guy who lives next to them...
If people play with a cheater on their team, they might as well be ban to....
Bottom line is, when the cheaters come, the community will be tested. Its not all on the devs guys.

Edited by Erikku, 30 May 2012 - 09:26 AM.

[Forscythe]

Paul Inouye, on 08 May 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

We are very well aware of cheating in on-line games. We will never discuss our security measures with the public. Just rest assured we are taking every possible precaution to ensure that cheating is kept near to zero and will be monitoring all systems to track and ban players who cheat.

This being said people just because you got beat by some who is good doesn't mean they are cheating. Lets try not to bog down our devs with everyone calling everyone else cheaters because someone lost. Every pilot who is good knows what it is like to be called a hacker if you are gonna throw the blame game around please get proof first.

[Dead Winter Dead]

Paul Inouye, on 08 May 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

We are very well aware of cheating in on-line games. We will never discuss our security measures with the public. Just rest assured we are taking every possible precaution to ensure that cheating is kept near to zero and will be monitoring all systems to track and ban players who cheat.

Good. I really would hate to see this game fail because of a hand full of losers who can't just sit and enjoy a gaming experience without ruining it for the entire community.

[Renan Ruivo]

Erikku, on 30 May 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

The community is what matters when facing cheaters. If the community is strong in the sense they dont talk to people like their 12, or rage over it...they can slow it. By this I mean if a cheater is on ones team, doing FF damage on that hacker and putting your gamer pride aside to fight for the game itself. Its like when a group of thugs go into a nice neighborhood....people in the neighborhood wont just sit around and protect just their house. They fight for the whole thing....even if that means fighting for the cranky old guy who lives next to them...
If people play with a cheater on their team, they might as well be ban to....
Bottom line is, when the cheaters come, the community will be tested. Its not all on the devs guys.

I'm not sure if you just said that when finding a cheater one should do FF damage on him or not ... But if you mean that we shouldn't then i agree. There is absolutely no excuse for FF, especially claiming that "he/she was hacking!".

[Blastcaps]

Paul Inouye, on 08 May 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

We are very well aware of cheating in on-line games. We will never discuss our security measures with the public. Just rest assured we are taking every possible precaution to ensure that cheating is kept near to zero and will be monitoring all systems to track and ban players who cheat.

one thing CCP recently started doing belive is digitaly "finger printing" people systems, and soon as someone who's been banned previously creates a new account and logs in, insta ban of the new account amoung other measures.

[Brenden]

Aimbot, for what? The Cockpit, the Legs, arms etc.?

[StandingInFire]

The easiest way to stop cheating, especially for online games, is to have the games running almost entirly on the server rather than local computers.

League of Legends does this, in essence you can't hack what isn't there, the game client is just UI and graphics, to use an ability (equivalent of shooting) all the client does is say to the server x pressed button y, the local computer doesnt know what the ability actually is or how it performs. From over a year of playing LoL I can say the only cheats I've heard about (never seen an actual cheater/hacker in game) where exploits (bugs) in the server code that gets fixed within a couple days.

[Inkarnus]

the problem is why cheat at all?
especially in betas last happened in CS:GO were ppl were always predicting and wallshooting without scouting ....
there is no gain in cheating MWO or any game except tourneys but it happens that there is more audience and cheating is very hard to pull of

cheaters per definition are some sore kids or adults who make a joke out of it to hurt a gamescene to show them self off to be king but knowing they suck hard
most cheaters doesnt do it for money just for the "fun"

Edited by Inkarnus, 15 August 2012 - 09:41 PM.

[Brenden]

Inkarnus, on 15 August 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

the probkem is why cheat at all especially in betas last happened in CS:GO were ppl were always predicting and wallshooting without scouting ....
there is no gain in cheating MWO or any game except tourneys but it happens that there is more audience and cheating is very hard to pull of

No clue what you said, but heres what I say we should do if we spot a cheater on our team:

Kill the *******:
Is he running a Jagermech with Eight Ultra-AC2s and Never runs out of Ammo or Overheats?
Have the Atlasi he's backing up shoot him in the face!

[Deceptor]

They should talk to Steam, for as much as I hate their approach to gaming they have a few tricks up their sleeve that helps to combat this.

edit: Just a layman's idea here, but might there a way to create a windows-esque permissions system on the downloaded end of the software?

Edited by Deceptor, 15 August 2012 - 09:51 PM.

[Cobra6]

Prophanity, on 08 May 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

What steps will be taken to prevent these kind of shinanigans going on? And how will Piranha get around the fact that a banned member of the community can simply create a new account and get right back to it?

IP ban them, then they can't create a new account.

Additionally if you have a large group of players playing a game you have a pretty clear indication of what behaviour is "normal" in a game. All you have to do then is find the ones that are not "normal" compared to the reference group and investigate if they are using cheats of some sort with gameplay replays and such.

Cobra 6

[Deceptor]

Ya I always liked the "last minute" replay reporting in games that had it. Though with the level of graphics today, is this actually feasible?

[Xyph3r]

i dont know if it has been tranlated into other languages, but a few years ago, there was a movie named "the Cheat report" here in Germany, which contained a solution i would be glad to see it being realized: the P.A.C.T. (Physical Anti Cheat Tool)


(subtitled version for all you non-german Mechwarriors out there)

[Intruder]

StandingInFire, on 15 August 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

The easiest way to stop cheating, especially for online games, is to have the games running almost entirly on the server rather than local computers.

League of Legends does this, in essence you can't hack what isn't there, the game client is just UI and graphics, to use an ability (equivalent of shooting) all the client does is say to the server x pressed button y, the local computer doesnt know what the ability actually is or how it performs. From over a year of playing LoL I can say the only cheats I've heard about (never seen an actual cheater/hacker in game) where exploits (bugs) in the server code that gets fixed within a couple days.

MWO is almost entirely server based too right?

Another such game is World of Tanks: I think I've played over 10,000 battles there and never seen a cheat and only ever heard a handful of convincing stories regarding cheaters. I know there was a graphical hack at one point that caused the Devs to suspend and rewrite part of the game but that was it really.

The biggest problem in WoT was leechers and login bots: 1-5 of them in every team of 15 doing nothing at all.
It won't take long before the same happens in MWO and I really hope they have a system to kick leechers without letting them take XP AND have them replaced with another mech.

[Inkarnus]

its simple to prevent leeching to an extent ppl that met minimal requirement x get XP rest not
varriablew x is such as mech distance moved or damage done or or or

[Python46]

for people who keep whining about "blacksheep policy" methods, take a look at where you are. you are NOT in a bar, you are NOT on a street corner, you are NOT in a public place. you are in a PRIVATE game, provided by PGI and their associates, for the enjoyment of ALL players. if you play the game on a computer 4 other people can use, you better be sure who you are sharing with and what kind of people they are. if they don't behave, don't play MWO on a computer they can access. PGI is very much within their rights to ban your IP address and even notify your ISP of the actions originating on your computer. it's part of the Terms of Service you agree to when you create an account and play the game. and that means everyone who plays the game agrees to that. there's no "my brother did it" that's going to keep you from losing your access, if someone in your house, apartment or college dorm pushes things to the point where PGI bans them. if you don't like that, get your own place and don't let anyone else access through your internet account. otherwise, you better police what goes on in your home and be sure someone else isn't ruining the game for you, by getting your ip banned.

also, for those thinking you can just let your lease expire and come back through another lease, you apparently don't understand that hacking/cheating, which violates the terms of service or use of the publisher actually violates your ISP's terms of service and can get your account shut down by your ISP. alternatively, PGI could as easily choose to ban your entire IP block, should push come to shove. but most ISPs will ban customers who consistently violate their terms of service. those violations can cost the ISP, if they don't, which is why they have those rules to begin with. this may not seem like much if you're in an area with 4 or 5 broadband providers available, but eventually, you'll end up without options and without internet. nobody has to sell you services.

either way, if the majority of major calculations and such are server side, hacking will be held to a minimum, since they would have to hack the servers. it never ceases to make me laugh when someone cries hacks every time they get owned in WoT. there's no money in hacking it, so why would the people talented enough to do it bother with it? the only real cheating going on is when game quirks are exploited and that's a whole other discussion. but if this game can't or won't be done in that fashion, it's likely that you'll see some hacking, at times. either way, you'll see people accused of hacking constantly, because some people just refuse to believe someone else is that much better than them.

[Jad Ivask]

Aegis Kleais, on 08 May 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

Banning a player in F2P. I don't get it. Account creation is free, and cheaters won't be rocking large Mech Garages or custom gear; they're just there to cheat within the confines of the base gameplay. Same problem with in-game miscreants. You can't rely on a kick system to remove them from the game, because most systems require a majority of players to vote, and most voting is enough of being too out of the way that most players who aren't being affected negatively by a cheater/griefer won't take the time to vote them out. ...and justice for none.

And thats why smart companies ban IP's rather than accounts.

[Aegis Kleais]

Jad Ivask, on 16 August 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

And thats why smart companies ban IP's rather than accounts.

Banning an IP is one of the most ineffective and error prone ways to ban people. Belief otherwise comes from people assuming that every person on the internet has 1 dedicated IP address. This isn't how it works.

For example, lets say you and I live in the same neighborhood and we both use Comcast to get online. When I get online I may have an IP of 1.2.3.4, and you might have 1.2.3.10. I do something and get my IP banned. In time, your "lease" on your IP will expire and the ISP will re-automatically give you an IP address within the range it owns. Let's say you get 1.2.3.4. Now, when you attempt to login to the game, you are told that you are banned because you have the IP address from a person who had it when the IP was banned.

Also, spoofing an IP address is a rather easy process with proxy servers.

[RTLarry]

Xyph3r, on 15 August 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

i dont know if it has been tranlated into other languages, but a few years ago, there was a movie named "the Cheat report" here in Germany, which contained a solution i would be glad to see it being realized: the P.A.C.T. (Physical Anti Cheat Tool)


(subtitled version for all you non-german Mechwarriors out there)

Ich stimme dem zu ( Jeder Cheater PC sollte sofort schmelzen )

[Samuikaze]

Rejarial Galatan, on 08 May 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

I am 100% against cheating in ANY game where you are playing with OTHER players. Cheat all you want stand alone. Have an Elder Scrolls game and dont care how you reach end game? cheat to your hearts content, BUT, when you get online, leave the cheats and hacks out of the experience. A. It makes you look STUPID. B. It erodes any skill you MAY have. C. It is 100% of the time, UNLESS ENABLED BY THE DEVELOPERS against ANY EULA you agree to before your first moment online or after every major update.

There are some out there that will do "anything" to win, winning is all that matters in their eyes, by whatever means, community be damned. When they are caught they'll just hold up their hands and say, "hey, I didn't know it was an issue, give us a chance?" I'll not do it again."
Of course, those chances are given and they find something else and use that until they get caught again and the whole cycle repeats. Guess what though? They know the cycle will be allowed to repeat so they will just keep trying it on and when finally get pushed out the door they just come back with a new account.