176 replies to this topic

[Rejarial Galatan]

Agree with ya 100% alex!

May the mods not hurt me. When I think Martyr, I dont think: that guy is smart, he is taking his life to save others. NO. I think of a very specific moment in time. 11 years ago on that September day. When the terrorists thought they were martyrs lighting the path for those they 'fought' with to follow. As to going OVER a ridge, that is stupidity, you ridgeline yourself, you DESERVE to die, its not being smart, its being STUPID. go AROUND the hill, come from cover, not from being clearly visible....

[StaIker]

Volthorne, Rejarial, I am curious whether either of you have ever played NR/FFP games with a team?

[Belisarius1]

Dude, I honestly think you need to look for help if a guy choosing to get his imaginary robot melted to save other imaginary robots gives you nightmares about 9/11.

Sometimes going around gives them time to get away.

Edited by Belisarius†, 13 May 2012 - 11:17 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

i am gonna hazard a No, since NR/FFP abbreviations elude me atm.

Belisarius†, on 13 May 2012 - 11:14 PM, said:

Dude, I honestly think you need to look for help if a guy choosing to get his imaginary robot melted to save other imaginary robots gives you nightmares about 9/11.

Sometimes going around will let them get away.

its how I see martyrs. as foolish wastes. IF you wanna smelt yourself in MWO because you think its fun, have at it.

[Belisarius1]

Will do. When my team beats yours because I did so, I'll be sure to point it out.

[Alexander Caine]

What it really comes down to with PUG games is this though:

it's casual players mostly, playing the game for a rather odd reason a lot of forum-goers often forget: To have a bit of fun and a laugh.

They don't care if you are a self-professed tactical genius (Btw, the words strategy and strategic are used way too much here, learn their meanings chaps...).

A) You probably actually aren't, and b.) If somebody wants to play a certain way to increase their enjoyment of their game, you have ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT to try to force them to do otherwise.

By all means, you can set out what you would like people to do which might help the team win, but there should be, and indeed won't be (as no game ever has) any way to force someone to play a role, class, fitting or anything else.

So....tough poop really. Live with it.

Edited by Alexander Caine, 13 May 2012 - 11:25 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

I will look for the ***** on the ridge and smelt them first. ANY proper soldier is taught to NEVER silhouette themselves on a ridge.

[StaIker]

Rejarial Galatan, on 13 May 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

i am gonna hazard a No, since NR/FFP abbreviations elude me atm.

It's short for No Respawn / Forced First Person, the conditions we will be facing in MWO. It's a shame you have no experience with it, it may provide you with some additional insight as to what does and does not work, even when its counter intuative.

[Helmer]

Let's be very careful with our words folks.

This thread has gotten a tad bit too hostile over a game mechanic no one has seen yet.

Let's keep this positive, constructive and keep proper prospective.


Cheers.

[Rejarial Galatan]

ok, now that I am on SAME page as you, actually, YES, i do have experience in this sorta thing, but not in video games. Actual Minds Eye Theater. I am a 12 year veteran of Vampire The Masquerade and Vampire Requiem, both are live action role playing games, no not that silly foam weapon crap. Think more, acting out table top. Your character dies, no respawn, its dead. pure and simple. and since its LIVE ACTION, its forced into First Person, since YOU are the character YOU are playing.

[Grumps McGurt]

The problem with this topic is that we don't REALLY know what a commander will be doing in game. Will they be the only ones with access to some strategic screen? Will they be controlling support assets? Or is it simply a mouth piece position where they have to try and herd cats (players)?

If you have played a mod called Empires Mod: Source then you'll know how crucial a good commander player can be to the enjoyment of many. You don't even have to be deliberatly incompetent to get harranged by other players, but let me continue using this as an example.

Player commanders are selected in a pre-game election. Players that desire to be commanders can press a button and appear on a list of candiates, the "soldier" players vote for the commander from the list of selections. This listing usually works out alright, however there are weaknesses but I'll come to that. There is, of course, a mutiny feature that will kick the current commander out of the command vehicle and allow new elections, this process takes about 30 seconds depending on how fast a majority of the players are with their pheripheral keys.

The weakness is that elections often work by word of mouth reputation over in-game knowledge. Players see a name on the list and nothing else. Someone mentioned some ways to use hard statistics into a semi-flexible command rating. If we can pair this list with a command rating then the team will be able to choose their commander with more confidence. It would also help players be more understanding of newb commanders rather than demanding perfection.

I freely admit this system is far from perfect, some players may not vote, some votes may be indecisive. But this is about as close as my humble thoughts can conjurn presently.

[Aldinvor]

So long as it ain't me, I'm happy. Just a grunt 'ere sir, I wouldn't be capable of even leading someone to a toilet.

[Volthorne]

A few things before I punch out, due to the sheer silliness of Rejarial's arguments.

1) Rejarial, LARPing doesn't count as NR/FFP. That's like saying "Yeah, I'm a 5 year veteran at CoD/BF, so I could totally kick your *** in a RL gunfight".

2) When you and half your team go charging after a badly damaged Centurion and manage to kill him, only to be blown to smitheroons by my whole team, you won't be laughing. Also, a better example of a martyr than your terrorists (who in all reality, were retaliating to America's invasion) is the football player who stopped the third plane of 9/11. He jumped on one of the terrorists, got himself killed, and then everyone jumped on the others. THAT is how a proper martyr works.

3) Yep, I have NR/FFP experience under my belt. Mostly from CS:S.

Edited by Volthorne, 14 May 2012 - 11:38 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Rejarial Galatan, on 13 May 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

ok, now that I am on SAME page as you, actually, YES, i do have experience in this sorta thing, but not in video games. Actual Minds Eye Theater. I am a 12 year veteran of Vampire The Masquerade and Vampire Requiem, both are live action role playing games, no not that silly foam weapon crap. Think more, acting out table top. Your character dies, no respawn, its dead. pure and simple. and since its LIVE ACTION, its forced into First Person, since YOU are the character YOU are playing.

[hydrix]

Sure there are games filled with casual players, but in higher levels and clan matches you will find many non casual players, so the system must fit both settings..

My sugestion, Have an opt in, to be a commander. (you select this when select a mech, so well before launching into the game)

At the game start, while waiting for all players, you can vote on commander. All those in the team who had opted in are in a list, showing theur Command rating, and winn %.

The systems remembers each players commander rating, wich is decided by a 3 or 5 level choice, after mech died or game end. ea: +20 command points to commander, +10, +0,-5,-10

IF no players in a team are opted in, vote will be made on the players with highest equipment. (top 3)

---

thats how I would make it.. hehe

[Tarellond]

Picking commanders ... hmmmm ... Straws?
Could there be a minigame with folks picking one straw and the longest one is the commander?

We may also pick no commanders at all and they would be assigned automaticaly according to their battle performance (eg the one with most dmg/match ratio is picked). The downside would be that the biggest brawlers may not be interesting in commanding the others at all.

[Outlaw2]

Rejarial Galatan, on 13 May 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

ok, now that I am on SAME page as you, actually, YES, i do have experience in this sorta thing, but not in video games. Actual Minds Eye Theater. I am a 12 year veteran of Vampire The Masquerade and Vampire Requiem, both are live action role playing games, no not that silly foam weapon crap. Think more, acting out table top. Your character dies, no respawn, its dead. pure and simple. and since its LIVE ACTION, its forced into First Person, since YOU are the character YOU are playing.

I was told about this post.... but I had to come here to read it for myself

[wwiiogre]

None of the Above,

my take with the way Dev's have talked is for a House the commander will be highest ranking but he can then choose to pass it down the line. For Mercs it will be based on whatever order the merc units assigns its own pilots, but can then also be passed on down the line. For a group of all lone wolf players, I assume it will also be based on Pilot rank given right of first refusal then passed to next down the food chain.

So I did not vote as none of the above was offered.

Chris

[Deathz Jester]

Why did this topic even start again? Where's this talk of commanders from the devs?

I'd just like to know why we're all arguing over whos a better tactical genius.


When i see all this arguing, and imagine most people I'd encounter claiming they know what to do, I see this as what they look like

Edited by Iron Harlequin, 14 May 2012 - 01:54 PM.

[FrostPaw]

What is the commander going to do exactly?

If it's an organised team they likely already have a command structure, if it's a pug, being in charge is pointless because most people wouldn't respect random nobody giving them orders while they just hopped in for a quick match.

the nature of pugs is that the organisation, skill of players and teamwork is completely random, by being completely random you should have an equal chance of winning or losing as the opposing team. It's when none random mechanics start interfering that imbalance is created.