176 replies to this topic

[Zylo]

Rejarial Galatan, on 13 May 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

You know people, you assume I am A. going to take the same exact name into the game. B. that I cannot back my words up with action. C. that I honestly care what the lot of you think of me. What the majority of yall seem to fail to understand is this: No player in ANY game has the right or privilege to tell another player how they must go through a game. There is only 1 set of people in a game out side of the player who is being told how to play, how to play. That is NOT a person who has the 'title' of commander, or party leader or guild leader. It is, the GAME DEVELOPERS. THEY set the rules, not us players. Sure, we can set what rules we want for our merc corps or guilds, but, we cannot say: Player you MUST use THIS mech with THIS EXACT load out. Sure, you can ASK them to use a given mech or set up, but, you MUST take into account that what ever works for YOU, the person MAKING the request, wont work for the player your asking in every situation. Example: YOU rock a heavy mech, you have all your command modules and what not, and you see your lacking a scout mech for a nice round group. You look at your players on your team and ask say the guy in the Atlas to kindly switch to a scout mech. 50/50 shot he has a scout mech first off, let alone has the thing skilled. IF its your own corp, then, you KNOW the player, if its a PUG, then your making a blind guess, and if you guess wrong and just took a guy who is lethal with his mech and ask him to run something he doesnt use at all, well, only YOU can be blamed for that failed match. Look, I am all for balancing a team to make it work, but, to have the idea you can FORCE the issue is ludicrous.

A - I don't think a name change will matter if nothing else changes. People will catch on faster than you think.
B - I'm calling your bluff, I think you're all talk and will try to hide behind a name change.
C - Based on comments in another thread I suspect you care more than you're admitting. If nothing else you seem very easy to upset and the rage shows in your posts.

As for the whole following orders it's your choice if you want to follow the strat most of the team may be using but don't be surprised when you end up on a well coordinated team that all goes 1 way while you do your own thing and get picked off by a scout that spots you alone. If you choose to do your own thing on a team rather than trying to work with a battle plan you may find your team is unwilling to help you when you run into more than you can handle which I suspect will be quite often.

[Volthorne]

Tehbob, on 13 May 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

Na thats why you play with a guild if you are taking it that seriously. Like i said before, if you are part of a guild and thats how they roll, thats fine. If you are not playing with your guild then thats not fine, not even in the slightest.

Sure you watched the video? It applies extremely well to this discussion.

For Rejarial:

Zylo, on 13 May 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

A - I don't think a name change will matter if nothing else changes. People will catch on faster than you think.
B - I'm calling your bluff, I think you're all talk and will try to hide behind a name change.
C - Based on comments in another thread I suspect you care more than you're admitting. If nothing else you seem very easy to upset and the rage shows in your posts.

As for the whole following orders it's your choice if you want to follow the strat most of the team may be using but don't be surprised when you end up on a well coordinated team that all goes 1 way while you do your own thing and get picked off by a scout that spots you alone. If you choose to do your own thing on a team rather than trying to work with a battle plan you may find your team is unwilling to help you when you run into more than you can handle which I suspect will be quite often.

Copied word for word, since you blocked Zylo. Also, to tack on to this, only a fool learns a single role.

Edited by Volthorne, 13 May 2012 - 09:58 PM.

[Juiced]

Look if you are the commander and you want to try to get the group together and form a strat and try to execute it then fine nothing wrong with that. But doing things like telling people what mechs and what loadouts to use and forcing what you want isnt good. all 11 other people bring nothing but light mechs, work with it or ASK if maybe someone would want to drive something else. If they wont try to figure out a way to win. But going into a PUG and trying to force everything is never going to work and only makes you look bad.

If being in command and not wanting to listen to other people, give orders that are followed immediately and without question,and have exactly the correct mechs and exactly the correct loadout is important to you join a hardcore guild and play that way.

[Volthorne]

Tehbob, on 13 May 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

Look if you are the commander and you want to try to get the group together and form a strat and try to execute it then fine nothing wrong with that. But doing things like telling people what mechs and what loadouts to use and forcing what you want isnt good. all 11 other people bring nothing but light mechs, work with it or ASK if maybe someone would want to drive something else. If they wont try to figure out a way to win. But going into a PUG and trying to force everything is never going to work and only makes you look bad.

If being in command and not wanting to listen to other people, give orders that are followed immediately and without question,and have exactly the correct mechs and exactly the correct loadout is important to you join a hardcore guild and play that way.

I feel like you ignored the entire video, which sums up to: "People love to make choices. In fact, given the option, they'll debate choices until someone forces them to pick, or picks for them".

[Rejarial Galatan]

Zylo, to you I say this: I am by no means the best <Paul> or the worst pilot out there. I hold my own, I kill and I get killed. We all do. Period. My rage is at the seeming abundance of misguided attempts to see what is not there. I will lay this out for ALL of you to see, a free hint as to how I play ANY game. I am a "Ready, FIRE, Aim" type person. I will do as much damage to my enemy as I can before I am felled. I will kill my foe as often as they kill me. I accepted this a LONG time ago. I guess its why I specialize in high yield weapons and tactics with little to no regard for my own personal safety. My ex-gf can attest to the fact that in WoW, I used to kick on Hellfire with my demon spec warlock and rush into fights. I, for how I play cannot use most mechs under 65-75 tons, simply because they are NOT rugged enough to handle the abuse I will give my 'character' or in this case mech. I tend to pilot heavy/assault mechs for this reason. decent armor, scary fire power potential.

NOW, onto Volthorne: I honestly think it is bad taste for one player to demand another to use something they are not comfortable with or have no experience with. Which is why i am so polarized against the idea of someone in a 'command' position dictating to another player how they should play. I say: Learn what roles/mechs/weapons and the combinations there in that work for you. For me, its heavy/assault/energy with LIMITED ballistics such as say a Gauss Rifle. Look, as i said, I am all for team balancing and trying to make a well formed unit, but, NOT at the cost of doing something I am not comfortable with or someone else isnt comfortable with.

Just as an example: You would not demand a non trained soldier make a mile+ long sniper shot would you or have a non EOD soldier clear an IED? same thing goes here in MWO, dont expect someone who does the heavy end of the spectrum to do the lightest end and vice versa.

[Deathz Jester]

For people assuming they can tell other players how to play, Are you familiar with the concept of "Que dodging"?

cause you'll probably start seeing it if you start telling people what to do.

[Rejarial Galatan]

I see that OR ALOT of people meeting pre-enemy link up deaths due to angry players taking it out on the commanders...

[Volthorne]

Rejarial Galatan, on 13 May 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

dont expect someone who does the heavy end of the spectrum to do the lightest end and vice versa.

Why not? I learned a total of 3 rolls (for the purposes I'm trying to demonstrate here, I'll translate them into MW-lingo: Direct Fire-support, Assault, and Defense) in LoL before I took a break. Why? Because you need to. The same could be said here. What if your whole team picks Heavies/Mediums, and you normally pilot an Assault? You'd be pretty damn useless, whereas a Light scout could increase the lethality of your team by five-fold. What? you don't know how to play as a Light? Too bad....

Iron Harlequin, on 13 May 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

For people assuming they can tell other players how to play, Are you familiar with the concept of "Queue dodging"?

cause you'll probably start seeing it if you start telling people what to do.

Fixed, and yes, I'm familiar with it. Although in my experience, people will queue dodge anyway if they get terrible team composition.

Edited by Volthorne, 13 May 2012 - 10:21 PM.

[LordDeathStrike]

if you do someting stupid or disobey an order from the commander in a game with me, i will core your cockpit with my gauss rifle. you are a liability and thus need to be removed before you cost us the game.

[Rejarial Galatan]

IF the order is lethally stupid, you can bet the majority will disregard and move on.

[Volthorne]

Rejarial Galatan, on 13 May 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

IF the order is lethally stupid, you can bet the majority will disregard and move on.

Sometimes sacrifices need to be made. Any good player understands this.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Yes. I get that sacrifices must be made, but if there is 0 chance a player will survive the order, it WILL NOT be obeyed. Hell I know of no modern day soldier who does NOT have a death wish, who would follow such an order.

[Volthorne]

Rejarial Galatan, on 13 May 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

Yes. I get that sacrifices must be made, but if there is 0 chance a player will survive the order, it WILL NOT be obeyed.

Lies. If MY CO orders me to my death so that he can wipe out the enemy team, I'll be called a martyr. You are familiar with that word, yes?

[Rejarial Galatan]

I pity those who would take the road of the martyr. They lack the courage of conviction to stand against an order that would lead to a wasteful death. A wise warrior can find the path to obey the order in a way that wastes no lives and renders the enemy dead. A martyr is a wasted and will less soldier who seeks his own death in a blind grab for glory. TRUE glory, comes to those who fight wisely, not foolishly.

[Volthorne]

Then you obviously haven't seen the power of a proper martyr. I feel pity for you, for when you do see a martyr done properly, it won't be a sight you will forget.

Also, martyrs aren't puppets without wills. Most of the time, they willingly give up their lives to further their cause. Damned Canners and their convoluted views twisting noble tactics and sacrifices into worthless acts of glory-hogging.

Edited by Volthorne, 13 May 2012 - 10:46 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

a martyr is a waste. why waste a valuable asset in a suicide mission? are you THAT desperate for glory that you would die before you get to see your glory?

[Helmer]

It's my understanding that the commander "role" is not someone you pick, per se. It is a set of modules you can pick to enhance certain abilities that are normally in the domain of a commander. Just as the scout "role" is supported by modules that might make detection quicker, or easier.
I do not believe this is an MMO class selection process.

I will attempt to find the supporting developer posts tomorrow, however, I believe many are viewing "role warfare" in the wrong light.

The role of a Leader or Commander whom you trust to lead you to victory is your own to decide if you want to listen to someone or not.


Cheers.

[Rejarial Galatan]

I hate to say it, but, I really see bad things ahead, a red sky morning, if we are choosing our commanders. I HOPE beyond HOPE that the role and the player chosen for the role is system chosen, not player. Merc Corp leaders, and lances formed from them, sure, pick away, you KNOW those players, but in a PUG situation, its gonna get nasty and heated too fast for ANYONES comfort.

[Alexander Caine]

I think it'll be a non-issue in PUG games frankly, and in non-PUGs, it'll be set before hand by the team anyway.

In virtually any game i've ever played with any sort of command role, PUGs ignore 95% of what the commander says anyway. Especially if he's dumb.

Also, MASSIVE lol at people saying "I will choose what you fit/drive" and the like. How exactly will you enforce that eh? Anybody in a PUG that tries to tell me what I get to do with MY very limited play time is going to be laughed at, if i'm feeling polite.

Clan games are a different matter but PUGs? You work with what's there, or GTFO.

[Belisarius1]

Rejarial Galatan, on 13 May 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

a martyr is a waste. why waste a valuable asset in a suicide mission? are you THAT desperate for glory that you would die before you get to see your glory?

You clearly have no idea how this works in practice.

The first guy over a contested ridge is going to get melted, so you make sure you put a zombie on point rather than your glass shooter. That's not a waste of an asset, that's an asset performing its function. Someone has to lead the charge.

Edited by Belisarius†, 13 May 2012 - 11:11 PM.