176 replies to this topic

[PANZERBUNNY]

Rejarial Galatan, on 09 May 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

ok, in fairness, I wasnt specific. By ability, I mean what is in your tree of skills provided by the game. Artillery strike, air support, stuff like that ya know? Make the system choose by what the characters mech skill tree is or something. otherwise this is gonna be well, not friendly out there.

I'm assuming that your command skills and arty call down are only used if you are in the position.

[PANZERBUNNY]

I also think rank for your unit should come into play.

It may even make sense to have the highest ranking player for your faction choose OR have it check rank and command outfit and assigned it based on that.

Rank should have some factor. You'll be more inclined to think the almost maxed rank DCMS mechwarrior has cut his chops in the game and knows what he's doing over "random scrub with command modules private".

[IIIuminaughty]

randomly is better for those that most likely wont stand the chance of being a commander for whatever reason lol
my opinion

[Rejarial Galatan]

Kanatta Jing, on 09 May 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

If I'm commanding, you'll have to clear your weapons package first. I don't want your Awesome in my IF lance or your Catapult in my Close Quarters lance.

Now that I think about it, the Mech Bay is going to make Commanding really hard if I have to double check to make sure people aren't turning their Hunchbacks into Gauss Snipers.

who are YOU to tell me what I can use as my mech? if i wanna make a gauss sniper hunchback, your not gonna stop me. No player has the right to tell another: Hey PlayerABCXYZ you MUST use THIS mech with THIS gear or get out of my lance. Sorry. Not gonna happen.

and to you

PANZERBUNNY, on 10 May 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

I'm assuming that your command skills and arty call down are only used if you are in the position.

how do you get players into that position? voting by players? biased and so beyond not fair in PUGs. Only way that is fair, is, if you have the gear on the mech as you launch and have the abilities, you can be put into that place by the system. only way to make it fair honestly.

[Yeach]

Yeach, on 09 May 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

Um. Even thought it may be on a server, the commander might just end up being the person who chooses to host and forms up the lance/company.
He/She then would choose which battles/mission to participate in after forming the lance/company.

The only current game I can think of this happening is Mass Effect 3 where someone chooses to host and 3 other players join in.

This option isn't given in the poll.

Again why can't someone choose to host a lance/company.... maybe be the FIRST person in the deployment room be the commander?
People then would join the group as they see a commander is already chosen. Other commanders can avoid the room. (if they want to command)

[Insidious Johnson]

Still need more information on whether or not this is just a game or a game and a planetary league rolled into one monster. That aside, how do we know if there WILL be anything like a PUB game? I'm hoping for the big ball of wax with a steep learning curve that'll mean every game is for all the marbles.

[Kanatta Jing]

Yeach, on 10 May 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

Again why can't someone choose to host a lance/company.... maybe be the FIRST person in the deployment room be the commander?
People then would join the group as they see a commander is already chosen. Other commanders can avoid the room. (if they want to command)

What if the first person doesn't want to command?

[PANZERBUNNY]

Rejarial Galatan, on 10 May 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

who are YOU to tell me what I can use as my mech? if i wanna make a gauss sniper hunchback, your not gonna stop me. No player has the right to tell another: Hey PlayerABCXYZ you MUST use THIS mech with THIS gear or get out of my lance. Sorry. Not gonna happen.

and to you


how do you get players into that position? voting by players? biased and so beyond not fair in PUGs. Only way that is fair, is, if you have the gear on the mech as you launch and have the abilities, you can be put into that place by the system. only way to make it fair honestly.

What does fair have to do with anything?

If this was straight up arcade style game play I would agree, but they are including a faction rank system and skills.

Best man for the job gets it, but having it so they can decline and have it passed down to the next should be included.

Perhaps they could have an option for the person starting the map whether they want it to be random or selected via rank and skill.

[Kanatta Jing]

Rejarial Galatan, on 10 May 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

who are YOU to tell me what I can use as my mech? if i wanna make a gauss sniper hunchback, your not gonna stop me. No player has the right to tell another: Hey PlayerABCXYZ you MUST use THIS mech with THIS gear or get out of my lance. Sorry. Not gonna happen.

I don't want to spend time leading you sneaking under cover to get into close range only to find out you traded your AC 20 for a Guass.

I don't want to set you up in a position to rain down Indirect fire only to find out you traded your LRMs for SRMs.

Seriously that would make us both feel like idiots.

I need to know what I'm commanding, if I'm going to command.

[soulfire]

I guess my question to some people is how do you know there will even be a deployment room did I miss a post somewhere. Whos to say it wont be like other games you signify to a matchmaker that you want to go into battle while your sitting in your mech lab polishing up your mech.After an amount of time your screen changes to signifiy you have joined others to enter a battle. You cant communicate with anyone in this ready room you can see those who will be joining the battle with you so forth this can be as fast as 10 sec or as slow as a min or more. now your in battle at your base. One or two groups of people move off to battle they are on their own voice system and could care less about what others are doing. two or three others are shouting over themselves to get people to go where they think is best. The one that no one listens to will for the rest of the maybe 10 min batttle tell everyone how stupid they are and so forth basically heckle everyone. and battle ends your back in your mech bay paying for repairs seeing if you have enough c bill to buy that next piece of hardware.I dont think commander will matter in the grind phase of the game, maybe they will not even empliment it in that portain of the game and save it for the other phase.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Kanatta Jing, on 10 May 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

I don't want to spend time leading you sneaking under cover to get into close range only to find out you traded your AC 20 for a Guass.

I don't want to set you up in a position to rain down Indirect fire only to find out you traded your LRMs for SRMs.

Seriously that would make us both feel like idiots.

I need to know what I'm commanding, if I'm going to command.

So don't PUG.

[Kanatta Jing]

PANZERBUNNY, on 10 May 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

So don't PUG.

Don't intend to command one.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Kanatta Jing, on 10 May 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

Don't intend to command one.

so then it's a non issue.

[Juiced]

I think it depends on what the command modules provide to be honest.

while the commander may or may not be the one in charge im willing to bet that the command modules allow for quick reference of allied force health/location, gathering of data from the rest of the lance(s) easily. While a good team will communicate through vent and such and be able to do what needs to be done, someone who is coordinating and does not need to be told (because the relevant info is on their battlegrid due to modules) will be able to make decisions quicker and will not have a bunch of cross talk.

Even with a voice server there is the issue of cross talk. Various lances will be engaged in combat and will be talking to coordinate that. With three active lances + command lance thats a lot of talking if you have more than one battle.

anyway im not too worried about it. Pick up groups will in general lack in coordination because well people dont work well together most of the time. The people who roll in with a large amount of people will already know a strat and have someone in charge in most cases. its going to come down to what benefits does giving someone command fill and how effective are the command modules.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Tehbob, on 11 May 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

I think it depends on what the command modules provide to be honest.

while the commander may or may not be the one in charge im willing to bet that the command modules allow for quick reference of allied force health/location, gathering of data from the rest of the lance(s) easily. While a good team will communicate through vent and such and be able to do what needs to be done, someone who is coordinating and does not need to be told (because the relevant info is on their battlegrid due to modules) will be able to make decisions quicker and will not have a bunch of cross talk.

Even with a voice server there is the issue of cross talk. Various lances will be engaged in combat and will be talking to coordinate that. With three active lances + command lance thats a lot of talking if you have more than one battle.

anyway im not too worried about it. Pick up groups will in general lack in coordination because well people dont work well together most of the time. The people who roll in with a large amount of people will already know a strat and have someone in charge in most cases. its going to come down to what benefits does giving someone command fill and how effective are the command modules.

From hwo it sounds...it seems that lancemates talk is to your lance and lance commander...and then the lance commander can communicate to his lance or with the other command elements.

I could be wrong, but that is something that is needed to avoid people micing out the battle, making it impossible coordinate anything as everyone is panicing into the microphone.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Players have ZERO right to tell another player that he or she MUST use a specific mech or a specific weapons load out. This concept that people seem to have that it is ok to tell another player how they should play a game is beyond infuriating. IF I have an Assault mech and can slip that nasty thing past the front lines and rain hell from behind the lines, then, guess what, I should be able to do that. ANY person who thinks getting into a group leader or Command position means they can dictate how other players play, then they have missed the boat on what it means to lead. Kanata, I wish you the best, but, your in for a long road of frustration on this game if you think its YOUR duty or RIGHT to tell others what to do if your in a command position. I have seen some load outs in other games that make absolutely NO sense to me on paper or even when they are explained to me, but when I see them in action 9 times out of 10 I am AWESTRUCK by how nasty and effective it can be. I also have personal experience with 'not being geared right' for a position and doing better than someone with the BEST gear for that position. Ever play World of Warcraft and watch a DEMONOLOGY spec warlock tank a level 85 heroic dungeon boss while everyone but the warlock is dead? I have, because I BLOODY DID it.

Bottom line: If you think just because you got the modules/abilities on your tree to command gives you the right to tell me what load out to use, expect me to TK you right out the gate. Never underestimate the spirit of a warrior who is in total harmony and synchronization with his machine.

[Yeach]

Yeach, on 10 May 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

Again why can't someone choose to host a lance/company.... maybe be the FIRST person in the deployment room be the commander?
People then would join the group as they see a commander is already chosen. Other commanders can avoid the room. (if they want to command)

Kanatta Jing, on 10 May 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

What if the first person doesn't want to command?

Then don't start the deployment.
One of the roles of a commander is also to choose his/her team IMO.

[Volthorne]

Rejarial Galatan, on 11 May 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

Players have ZERO right to tell another player that he or she MUST use a specific mech or a specific weapons load out. This concept that people seem to have that it is ok to tell another player how they should play a game is beyond infuriating. IF I have an Assault mech and can slip that nasty thing past the front lines and rain hell from behind the lines, then, guess what, I should be able to do that. ANY person who thinks getting into a group leader or Command position means they can dictate how other players play, then they have missed the boat on what it means to lead. Kanata, I wish you the best, but, your in for a long road of frustration on this game if you think its YOUR duty or RIGHT to tell others what to do if your in a command position. I have seen some load outs in other games that make absolutely NO sense to me on paper or even when they are explained to me, but when I see them in action 9 times out of 10 I am AWESTRUCK by how nasty and effective it can be. I also have personal experience with 'not being geared right' for a position and doing better than someone with the BEST gear for that position. Ever play World of Warcraft and watch a DEMONOLOGY spec warlock tank a level 85 heroic dungeon boss while everyone but the warlock is dead? I have, because I BLOODY DID it.

Bottom line: If you think just because you got the modules/abilities on your tree to command gives you the right to tell me what load out to use, expect me to TK you right out the gate. Never underestimate the spirit of a warrior who is in total harmony and synchronization with his machine.

Blah blah blah, whatever. To counter that I'm going to use

Yeach, on 11 May 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

One of the roles of a commander is also to choose his/her team IMO.

And don't even deny this is true. If I'm put in command I have the right to know what everyone is piloting, and then make changes as I see necessary. And don't even think about retorting with "freedom of choice" or some bullshit like that. I damn well expect you to honour my decisions as the commanding officer on the drop.

IF we get our ***** handed to us, then it's on my head, because I was calling the shots.

Edited by Volthorne, 11 May 2012 - 09:13 PM.

[StaIker]

Volthorne, on 11 May 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

And don't even deny this is true. If I'm put in command I have the right to know what everyone is piloting, and then make changes as I see necessary. And don't even think about retorting with "freedom of choice" or some bullshit like that. I damn well expect you to honour my decisions as the commanding officer on the drop.

IF we get our ***** handed to us, then it's on my head, because I was calling the shots.

In an ideal world you'd be right. The commander should dictate the drop package and the tactics and have a reasonable expectation of compliance from the other players and he takes the blame for the losses.

But the flip side of that is the players should expect their commander to be a competant tactician, have a sound knowledge of combat and organisational principles and a track record of success. Clearly that won't be true. Most commanders will be incompetant, have little idea how to handle a large force in real time and no understanding of combat principles. Instead they will demand ludicrous drop packages based on some poorly thought out fantasy scenario plucked from a movie or a BT novel, which they will then completely screw up on the field because they lack any ability to turn even simple ideas into effective action. That is not going to win the loyalty or obedience of others.

[Zakatak]

So long as it isn't random, or has any randomized factors, I don't care. This is a tactical shooter and a mech simulation. Squads of infantry don't roll dice to see who is in command for the next 24 hours.