176 replies to this topic

[Slazer]

My favorite choice would be the vote, but fpr this we would need at least 10 min pre game imformation who is who and what does everyone know, a computer based choice might be the solution but then you get QQ Commanders and (plz not be offended) little screamer kids who always want to charge.

This gone bee quite a challange for everyone to support their commander, because if more then 1/4 of the mechs do what they want to do it will be hard for the rest to pull the game to their favour. But maybe the other team will have the same problem and then it is even.

So actually mostly its not of the commander choice but the sanity and excepting him as the leader.

I'm thinking of some sort of general commentars and/or "like" point's if a commander has done his job good or acceptable the teammembers can push him for further fights by giving him a postive revue, and that rnd teammembers see he has done a good commander job and might also follow his direction.

And i don't think it will be a problem for a hole merc or house team to pick their commander especially since they gone choose him pre game and everyone will obey his commands. Its just the rnd question!

My 2 c-bills on that

[Karl Streiger]

You need to collect some MetaData per player and battle -> to get a rating.
For example:

• number of battle you lost
  
• number of battle you win
  
• number of battle as commander you win
  
• number of battle as commander you loose
  
• ratio of kill/looses per team (not per player)
  
• kills -> how many deadshots
  
• assists -> or damage ratio you dealt (must be relative not absolute 60 dmg to a commando should be similar to 300 dmg to a Atlas)

With some Math-Fu you can calculate some ratings - that may reflect the abilitys of a commander

Here a quick example:
Player 1 have 1000 battles, a win loose ratio of 1/1, he commanded 100 battles with win and 100with loose
His teams lost as many members as they killed = 1
He was able to kill per round 1 mech and dealt similar damage
so the overall rating could be about 17.6

other player really like playing commander...500 battles
lost 270 battles with 80 as commander won 230 battles with 140 as commander
team ratio 1.4
100 kills in 500 battles
but supportet a lot resulting in 500 assists
could be a rating of 20.8

so we have a typical lone wolf really incredible player however
only 100 battles but won 80%
commander only at the beginning lost 1 and won 1 battle as commander
while no teamplayer he doesn't care to assist other players 0.75 team ratio
3 kills per battle while outstanding he didn't care about assisting 0.5 per battle
resulting in a rating of 0.0123

Problems in calculating hard to find a good balance..maybe others had better ideas

• a player with 1000 battle should have a better base rating as a player with 100 battles
  
• a player with more wins should have a better rating
  
• a player that played often commander must have a better rating as a player that did not
  
• even a commander that loose a battle must have a better rating as a player that was not the commander
  
• a high number of kills isn't a sign of a good commander
  
• a low number of assists isn't a sign of a good commander
  
• i think the rating of team kills is really important

Edited by Karl Streiger, 09 May 2012 - 01:22 AM.

[Hagan]

Command is, and always shall be, a tricky subject.
You can't know who will be good at it in the field until you are down there and have engaged the enemy. Those of us with some MMO pvp experience will know that you can be the best PvE raid commander in the world, gaining glory and gear in the sterile tactical environment of an instance, and that is fine. But once you are in the field, those guys are next to worthless against an enemy you can't quantify and calculate with stat line and charts.

People are chaotic, unpredictable and, if they are really good at what they do, sneaky as hell.

For this you need a commander who is, at heart, an utter b*st*rd. Don't do as you are told and die alone as your team pulls out of support range, your cries of 'help' ignored as your team scrag the target laid down by the guy who knows what he is doing. Gear and points mean nothing, that cold, cool analytical skill to read people and mech movements is critical on the battlefield to be an effective commander. You just cannot get that from a glance at a stat sheet or profile.

In this game, reputation is going to be everything. And not just for commanders, although it will be critical for those who wish to lead.

For me, a system where people can comment on your skill would be useful. The more recommendations and kudo's you receive for your particular roll on the battlefield from team mates, the better your chance to lead again. A 140 character twitter style system would help keep it short and sweet for easy reading. After all, peer review in an online community is a little more informative, provided we all remain mature about it.

No system is perfect.
*Didn't vote, my opinion wasn't available as a selection*

[Solarflux]

I would not want to make the picking of commanders gear dependant. I would rather have some kind of system which states how commanders rank (wins/losses under their command) and then vote for the commander.

[RSF Angel]

Like BF2/ 2142 please.
Anyone can apply to be commander at the strat of round by simply pressing a button, highest level application gets picked after a few moments.
Players can mutiny if he's incompetent, if successful he'll be kicked out and another bout of applications can begin.

It doesnt always produce the best commanders but it is fast and elegant and rewards time spent with the game rather than what you've bought or who your buddies are.

[StaIker]

You guys really are over-thinking this. The level of control that even the best MechWarrior commander in the world is able to exercise over strangers is minimal. There are simply too many variables. At most a good commander will be limited to choosing where to move initially and possibly picking the timing of the battle, if the enemy didn't engage already. That's it. Active control over a battle will be zero.

[Sheilei]

I went for the vote before battle option since it makes most sense to me.
In any case i hope the one who is voted to be the commander has the option to refuse.

Being able to refuse is critical for me since i'll be a scout who tries to take on slow moving mechs all on my own whenever i'm in favorable terrain.
I got many mind qualities that is good for a leader to have, but i really dislike doing it.

[Chuckie]

I'm betting you pick your role.. (like in WOW) before you jump in.

That said, I expect to have a number of lancemates to play with.. and then it will come down to who is good at it and how has the EQ and modules.

[Threat Doc]

You failed to put in an option for "I wouldn't like to pick a commander for each game, there's a set hierarchy in my unit and that's what I will follow and, if I want to command anything, I will bust my butt to earn the right to do so, like the people who have rank and have actually earned it." If I'm not mistaken, the devs have already expressed there will be a permissions system in the Merc Corps HQ and, I would presume, something similar will be in place for the Houses and, eventually, the Clans IF they are made playable, and the Command & Staff will set the permissions. My people will earn the right to be Drop Commanders, and everyone else who isn't a Drop Commander will need to either fall under appointed and trained Drop Commanders, or they will have to become a Drop Commander themselves.

I have no plans whatsoever to allow just anyone, if I can help it, to be a Drop Commander... I want my DCs trained. I will, of course, select a certain minimum number of initial DCs, and they will help me develop the training program for it... in fact, it's already being developed, and will be modded as necessary once MWO goes live.

Here's the problem with selecting your own DCs by group vote... no one votes on the same person unless that person has absolutely proven themselves right to lead as a DC. So, the child(ren) that are unhappy with a particular individual will bail on the drop and go somewhere else. Can you say two to three HOURS for getting Lances and/or Companies (God-forbid trying to choose Lance Leaders for a full Company) squared away for a 15 or 20 minute drop. Can anyone say Kali, Mplayer, HEAT, or even the Microsoft game servers?

[Sprouticus]

StaIker, on 09 May 2012 - 02:39 AM, said:

You guys really are over-thinking this. The level of control that even the best MechWarrior commander in the world is able to exercise over strangers is minimal. There are simply too many variables. At most a good commander will be limited to choosing where to move initially and possibly picking the timing of the battle, if the enemy didn't engage already. That's it. Active control over a battle will be zero.

Stalker, you forget that commaners (role) are going to have the ability to do things us scrubs cannot (arty stikes, possible electronics syetms) depending on their modules.

[Jonas]

Well in all honesty the first weeks we will becoming up short on the Command skills. As I recall there are 3 trees one of which is the command tree it will take a few matches ( maybe a whole slue of them ) to have enough points to really make a difference in that tree. So the first weeks are going to be a wild when it comes to command.

Now with that said in any group that plays together a Alpha or Leader will emerge ( now the Alpha or leader may only be considered the Alpha or leader of his/her group and when compared to other Alphas or leaders be found lacking ) that aside time will decide who is the best for each role. Yes there will be jacks of all trades, even a few masters of all.

[TheRulesLawyer]

I don't want to see a vote in pub games. Being commander becomes a catch 22. If people don't know you as commander, you won't get voted, but how do you get any experience without being commander. Buy a commander upgrade and do it randomly for pubs. For merc units, and premade companies votes are fine.

[neodym]

if there is going to be way to know whos commander and extra EXP for killing one I am sure I dont want to be one lol

Edited by neodym, 09 May 2012 - 10:42 AM.

[SquareSphere]

Pubs are always going to be a crap shoot when it comes to this stuff.

How would I like to pick a commander? By joining a merc unit

[Volthorne]

Karl Streiger, on 09 May 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

-snip-

Nice math-fu you've got there, but convoluted equations don't mean squat once the **** hits the fan.

A good commander has the respect of his troops, and knows what decisions to make and when to make them. If sacrifices are required, he does so. If a retreat is necessary, he makes the call.

[soulfire]

Vote isnt going to work esp if you have some buddies of one group and some of another. Wouldnt suprise me if those at least in the house structure will get rank up to a certain level. After that level only those that are putting their points into the command choices get ranks above the normal. Person in the drop with the highest rank gets to command.
.....Will say this though Paul has said that there wont be a command part of the game. Now Paul may have been trolling that day. Personnely command only going to work in inter house..clan..merc battles not grind random ones. no ones going to listen to strangers much. There are too many idiots. without voice your just going to be ignored, even with voice .

[MaddMaxx]

Everyone submits their Command Resume', the Board goes over them all in detail, rating each in 5 categories, and then ranking each for merit and then recommends 3 possible candidates.

After that is all done, the one guy left in the Queue is the Commander as we value patience over brawn...

Edited by MaddMaxx, 09 May 2012 - 11:22 AM.

[Toothman]

The 12 commanders on each side will waste the first 5 min of each match arguing about why the other 11 should follow them. Eventually a couple people will get bored with the posturing and take off to fight. Hopefully most of the rest will follow

[Major Tom]

Again, what makes anyone think there is a magical commander chair?

A commander is a skill choice (like attacker, defender, and scout). Why would I not be able to use my commander skills (like setting waypoints, calling artillery, etc) in any match?

You people are talking about a person giving verbal orders, which is only relavent to teams with a voice server (probably 3rd party like teamspeak, ventrillo, skype). In which case there will not be any interaction in the deployment area, and the "commander" in question would not even need any commander skills.

Edited by Major Tom, 09 May 2012 - 11:57 AM.

[Eximar]

Major Tom, on 09 May 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Again, what makes anyone think there is a magical commander chair?

This.