349 replies to this topic

[Rejarial Galatan]

no, it is not. TO YOU, maybe, as you like your Pyrrhic victories and what not, but, you opened up a nice thing for me. Know how many matches of Chess I have won w/out taking more than 3 PAWNS ONLY? about 400 matches. Play Smarter, not harder. See, you like the mindless nature of the Death match, I like the tactical flavor and flow of a TACTICAL situation, something that is NOT provided by mindless PvP death matches. Now, go away, and STOP trying to ruin this game for the rest of us. Go play your inferior MW4 since that is STILL around and is all Death Match, all the time.

[Teralitha]

Rejarial Galatan, on 28 November 2012 - 11:57 PM, said:

of all the things that are still broken and STILL in place from CB start, you pick on THIS? more important things right now than making an actual base. Hell, right now, w/out community warfare OR the meta game, going after a REAL base, is kinda pointless, so, they dump a beacon on us and a box to stand in, just as pointless, but, SOMETHING to try diff strategies on.

Yeah... we've already used up all the possible strategies with this game mode. Time to expand!

[Stalephreak]

Teralitha, on 28 November 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

Unless your assuming that 1 orange square on 1 map(a tiny spec of land on an entire planet) actually represents and entire planet in 1 single 8 vs 8 match, then yea, you would think I have contradicted myself.

One single 8vs 8 match does not capture an entire planet. And even if it did, it would only have 1 base. 1 attacker, 1 defender(or if you want to be like Rejarial - 1 base, 1 dropship.(which actually would be cool if they did that)

A square representing a planet,no.... a square representing a resource (oil well,HPG generator...)Yep, I sure do think that's fair. A square representing your small staging area's c & c, yep,i sure do think that's scaled Okay. no worse than the trees and caves. So yes Tera, you've got a contradiction as the game only has one setting so far. In group warfare, stating that team x must take 42 pieces of territory to control a planet is fair. That's how you invade a country, or did I miss something during the last decade of conflict?

More game modes, sure. What you've got is a blatant logical contradiction. Also, it's typically better in RL to try and capture a command/control area intact so you can gather intel....So that means people climbing off the mechs and going to work....hence the timer.... They don't let us play infiltrator (which actually is a partial gripe of mine. I'd love a real BT experience.

Teralitha, on 28 November 2012 - 11:57 PM, said:

Assault mode is inferior to team death match. I have already explained this in older posts. Its a simple matter of quantum mathematics. Has nothing to do with opinion. Assault mode provides a limited number of tactical scenarios, while TDM offers infinite tactical possibilities. Checkers vs Chess, if you will.

Tera, in chess, if I corner a single piece, I am victorious. I don't have to take every piece on the board. That's checkers.

Teralitha, on 29 November 2012 - 12:00 AM, said:

Yeah... we've already used up all the possible strategies with this game mode. Time to expand!

This. I can agree with this.

[Haxburch]

I have not read the whole tread so i dont know if somebody sayed this : delete both bases and make one in the middle of the map . Let the teams conquer this base , there is room for tactics and its not just a deathmatch something between.

[Teralitha]

Rejarial Galatan, on 28 November 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

no, it is not. TO YOU, maybe, as you like your Pyrrhic victories and what not, but, you opened up a nice thing for me. Know how many matches of Chess I have won w/out taking more than 3 PAWNS ONLY? about 400 matches. Play Smarter, not harder. See, you like the mindless nature of the Death match, I like the tactical flavor and flow of a TACTICAL situation, something that is NOT provided by mindless PvP death matches. Now, go away, and STOP trying to ruin this game for the rest of us. Go play your inferior MW4 since that is STILL around and is all Death Match, all the time.

Once again you portray a totally *** backwards perspective... know how many games of chess I have won in 2 moves only taking the king? (and yes you can win in 2 moves) And it is lame and gives me no satisfaction whatsoever to win this way(kinda like base capping)

What you have backwards... is the base capping is the mindless pvp... TDM is the more tactically flavorful. numbers alone proves it. your opinion is trumped by the facts, sorry... Now stop trying to keep this game dumbed down ... its time we step it up a little...

Edited by Teralitha, 29 November 2012 - 12:08 AM.

[Taizan]

Teralitha, on 28 November 2012 - 11:57 PM, said:

Assault mode is inferior to team death match.

I'd say both of them are valid gaming modes. Assault has two goals, one primary, one secondary, TDM only has one goal.

TDM may offer more tactical flexibility, whereas assault offers a better chance at "flipping" a match or forcing the enemy to change its tactics from offense into defense.

I'd really like to see the addition of a capture & hold or KotH mode. To me these would be more interesting than straightforward TDM.

Edited by Taizan, 29 November 2012 - 12:07 AM.

[yashmack]

Stalephreak, on 29 November 2012 - 12:02 AM, said:

Tera, in chess, if I corner a single piece, I am victorious. I don't have to take every piece on the board. That's checkers.

This made me actually LOL
XD
awesome

[Armorpiercer M82]

nice troll

[Elkarlo]

Teralitha the Guys who don't want to fix the Game but to destroy things.

And don't hear on Arguments..

And the Guy who wants to Chase a damaged 40% Jenner for 6 Minutes instead of being able to shorten the Game by Capture.

( I am trolling him because he ignores the Arguments he don't want to hear, i thing he sits in the Corner, presses his Hand on his Ears singing LALALA everytime an Argument comes.)

[Teralitha]

Stalephreak, on 29 November 2012 - 12:02 AM, said:

Tera, in chess, if I corner a single piece, I am victorious. I don't have to take every piece on the board. That's checkers.

Oh Stalephreak... your being silly now. My checkers/chess comparison isnt about how may peices you have to take to win, its about the number of possible outcomes in any particular game. Anyway its getting late... Everything I have posted in this topic more than illustrates why I am right. Yall are just getting me to repeat my points over and over again, to prove you wrong, over and over again... Like talking to brick walls, trying to convince a brick wall that they are in fact a brick wall, and the brick wall keeps saying... no im not a brick wall.

Anyway, some ppl in this topic have "got it" the rest of you are hopelessly ignorant. Laters.

Edited by Teralitha, 29 November 2012 - 12:17 AM.

[Critical Fumble]

Interesting, wasn't there a poll on this thread earlier? It seems to have vanished somewhere. I wonder if that has something to do with it showing that most people want to keep base capture?

Yes, the mechanic needs work, especially with the standing on the base en mass technique. No, it won't go away just because all its features aren't fully implemented yet; we have many, many mechs that show that.

Your OP is really rather hilarious. Like playing CS and complaining about the Ts planting the bomb or the CTs rescuing the hostages. Or, rather appropriately, playing Stratego and saying that you should have won because of your better strategy after letting your flag get captured. Keep in mind that chess, in its many forms, is often considered the most strategically deep games ever, and you can lose the game with most of your pieces still in play.

"Checkmate."
"But no! My queen is still in play, I can take all your pieces in five turns!"
"It doesn't work that way; if you lose your king, you lose the game."
"That's is stupid, it should be death match!"

Here's some other fun info about base rushes. PUGing, I see concentrated rushes every five to ten matches. Half of them fail horribly.

[Stalephreak]

Teralitha, on 29 November 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

Oh Stalephreak... your being silly now. My checkers/chess comparison isnt about how may peices you have to take to win, its about the number of possible outcomes in any particular game. Anyway its getting late... Everything I have posted in this topic more than illustrates why I am right. Yall are just getting me to repeat my points over and over again, to prove you wrong, over and over again...

No Tera, I'm making a direct comparison. How much actual in game impact does a king have in chess? He's relatively useless. You cap the king, corner him, and you have immediate victory.

In checkers, you must wipe out the board.

You keep saying that chess is the more tactically favorable, and I concur....But yet again, there's that blasted contradiction. The fact is that you have to protect a relatively useless piece who's slow and not very manouverable. The base can't move, and must be protected.

Using your comparison, not mine, the current game mode is closer to chess than it is to checkers. What you propose is checkers, which is enjoyed in the front of cr*a*k*r**** Barrel's everywhere. I'm not being silly Tera,and while much of the house seems to think of me as some 20 year old, I'm a bit past that. I'm willing to hear good arguements, but it requires that egos be checked at the door.

Edited by Stalephreak, 29 November 2012 - 12:21 AM.

[Teralitha]

Critical Fumble, on 29 November 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

Interesting, wasn't there a poll on this thread earlier? It seems to have vanished somewhere. I wonder if that has something to do with it showing that most people want to keep base capture?

Yes, the mechanic needs work, especially with the standing on the base en mass technique. No, it won't go away just because all its features aren't fully implemented yet; we have many, many mechs that show that.

Your OP is really rather hilarious. Like playing CS and complaining about the Ts planting the bomb or the CTs rescuing the hostages. Or, rather appropriately, playing Stratego and saying that you should have won because of your better strategy after letting your flag get captured. Keep in mind that chess, in its many forms, is often considered the most strategically deep games ever, and you can lose the game with most of your pieces still in play.

"Checkmate."
"But no! My queen is still in play, I can take all your pieces in five turns!"
"It doesn't work that way; if you lose your king, you lose the game."
"That's is stupid, it should be death match!"

Here's some other fun info about base rushes. PUGing, I see concentrated rushes every five to ten matches. Half of them fail horribly.

base capping is still a dumb mechanic, no matter how you try to spin it.

[Elkarlo]

And again he ignores it: The Assault Mode Capture is INgame for one Reason:
That you don't need to hunt down the XL Jenner which had already killed 2 of your Scouts and don't want to die because of his Repairbill.

Fixing you Issue of Base rush would be: A hit Mech can't Capture for 5 Seks... so 2 Scouts can prevent capture without dying.

[Critical Fumble]

Teralitha, on 29 November 2012 - 12:20 AM, said:

base capping is still a dumb mechanic, no matter how you try to spin it.

Protip: "It's dumb" does not convert an opinion into a fact.

[Stalephreak]

Critical Fumble, on 29 November 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

Protip: "It's dumb" does not convert an opinion into a fact.

Not sure if hacked forums to show more posts and actually created handle just for this post, or if there's that many "fumbles"

[Teralitha]

Stalephreak, on 29 November 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

Using your comparison, not mine, the current game mode is closer to chess than it is to checkers.

no it isnt, but u cant rebuke the other comparison I made, whioch you apparently did see earlier in the topic

Base capping = 1,000 possible tactical scenarios. TeamDeath Match = Infinite possible tactical scenarios.

Thats why TDM is and always will be better. There is nothing that can prove that wrong. thats pure truth right there.

And by the way, thats why I said checkers vs chess.... The number of possible tactical scenarios. of course, even Chess has a limit. Which means that TDM is even better than chess.

[Asmudius Heng]

OK - this is my take on why Assault is a very limited game type tactically.

Organised teams will efault to the most efficient way to win which is either hardcore defence, or hardcore assault because doing things by half against another organised team will result in your forces being split and ineffective.

It becomes a game of back of forwards brinksmanship to try to split your opposing forces into smaller groups to come at you in dribs and drabs while you sit near the base unles you rush assault which can also work if you can get tot he abse with the most efficient brawler weapons. Either he other organised group will be defending, or they will also be puching.

The attack and defense is like a football field with offside rules, if you push past a certain point you are punushed as the enemy goes for the cap or you both go for each other cap and you both watch teh counter go down until someone wins by luck.

The game is limited because you cannot use the full scope of the map to engage ni tue armoured manouver warfare. There are many ways to make this game type better - but it is not anyway near as tactically variable as a game where you are free to roam the map which you are not.

Tera might be blunt but anyone who has played high level competition games knows these things. Someone says BF3 is aweful and chaotic, yes but not in organised games.

This dicussion is about high level competition play and tactics ignoring the random PUG games where both sides are organised and know the consequences of thier actions.

If this was all too many words here - i made a little video explaining the limitations of this game type.

http://www.showme.com/sh/?h=Rduy6E4

[Hawkwings]

How the heck does Deathmatch have MORE tactical possibilities than Assault? In case you haven't noticed, Assault is deathmatch except with... more options! That's right!

You can shoot the entire team dead in assault mode. However, you cannot cap the base in deathmatch mdoe. This tells me that deathmatch is inherently more limiting.

Q.E.D.

[Teralitha]

Elkarlo, on 29 November 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:

And again he ignores it: The Assault Mode Capture is INgame for one Reason:
That you don't need to hunt down the XL Jenner which had already killed 2 of your Scouts and don't want to die because of his Repairbill.

Fixing you Issue of Base rush would be: A hit Mech can't Capture for 5 Seks... so 2 Scouts can prevent capture without dying.

The maps have borders. The Jenner would be cornered and killed. unlike many of you, I have played mechwarrior 4 where this scenario actually happened, and its really not a bother, and not boring. Your only speculating, while I have done it.