349 replies to this topic

[ICEFANG13]

There was a poll, OP removed it when it was staggeringly against him.

[Teralitha]

Rejarial Galatan, on 30 November 2012 - 05:52 PM, said:

<picks himself off the deck from laughing himself out of his chair>

oh lord help me here, I thought Teralitha was incapable of humor or irony. Teralitha, shock of all shocks, you just advocated against your OWN OP!. TDM is EXACTLY about who has the biggest gun. If I bring a .50 cal desert eagle to a fight and you bring a 9mm and shoot me in my chest first, and I do not die because you missed something vital and I get a shot off? Guess what, if I strike you, you die. period. Biggest Gun won the fight. period. I should know, I have FIRED a .50 cal, and punched a hole in PLATE STEEL. The same plate steel that took a standard SNIPER shot to, that did nothing but scratch it. Big gun = victory, then, you state, what ever team out plays the other should win... well, shock of shocks, If I out play your team and sneak my 100 tons of atlas into your base, and you fail to see me or now, hear B Betty scream out that I am there, I just out played you. Period, and I did so, w/out a SINGLE shot fired. NEXT!

I guess you havent heard, there is this thing here in MWO called matchmaking. I guess you also havent heard that jenners kill atlas's ROFL at you. I guess if conversation was about TT, then you might be right. but... its not.... here let me help you put that foot in...

ICEFANG13, on 30 November 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

There was a poll, OP removed it when it was staggeringly against him.

Yes, because the poll wasnt related to the discussion. And only showed who was dumb(no votes) and who understood the OP(yes votes)

Rejarial Galatan, on 30 November 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

....Kills/assists = 2000
Spotting = 2000
Damage done = x10
Salvage = 2.5%
Base cap = 5000
Base cap assist = 2500....

this teralitha looks more like support for base capping to me...

You must have got that from my exploiter solution topic. That is only in the equation because it doesnt cause the exploit.
I still dont support base capping

Edited by Teralitha, 01 December 2012 - 10:05 AM.

[Rigiroth]

Stupid idea.

[Alois Hammer]

Keep base capping, get rid of players like the OP who can't handle the complex logic "undefended = captured."

Real problem solved, non-issue ignored as it should be.

ICEFANG13, on 30 November 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

There was a poll, OP removed it when it was staggeringly against him.

All we need to know, right there.

Edited by Alois Hammer, 01 December 2012 - 10:14 AM.

[Agent of Change]

Alois Hammer, on 01 December 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

[referencing the poll removal] All we need to know, right there.

Actually to be fair it's not all we need to know, but the next quote might just be.

Teralitha, on 01 December 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

Yes, because the poll wasnt related to the discussion. And only showed who was dumb(no votes) and who understood the OP(yes votes)

There it is, this says it all. So Tera... that's not how polls work. You have functionally in a sentence rendered every argument you have made in this thread irrelevant and most likely irreparably damaged your credibility in the eyes of anyone who gets what you did.

The poll which i can only assumed asked the question implied by your title and supported by your OP went badly against your personal opinion. This is the definition of a crippling bias, and bad argument structure. The poll was in your head originally germain to your position, however when it went against you it was suddenly irrelevant? And your position is that the majority of the forumites who voted were too slow to grasp your blindingly obvious and deeply significant position on a matter of opinion?

See there's the issue right there you assume there is a right and a wrong here, there is only a matter of opinion and enjoyment and to assume that your position is "right" is the very pinnacle of idiotic arrogance, only further compounded by the school yard rhetorical tactics of resorting to accuse people of a failure to understand and insults when you don't get full agreement. Get over yourself, take your fingers out of your ears and have a rational discussion. Again we are talking about matters of enjoyment and opinion not whether the earth revolves around the sun, there are no hard facts or "right answers". The only way to resolve this to any satisfaction is to try to understand the opposite side and either accept the differences or move on.

[Teralitha]

There is one group of players that enjoys the current mode. There is another group of players that see the flaws in the current mode, and suggest a (much)better mode. Group 1 disagrees with group 2 simply because they dont like change.

Group 1 prefers to mock and insult group 2. Group 2 very carefully explains their reasons for wanting a change to group 1. Group 1 ignores/mock/insults anything group 2 says because of the first reason - they dont like change.

Group 1 has gotten used to base capping. they have grown comfortable with it, and its flaws.
Group 2 petitions for change to reduce or remove the flaws in mode 1, and offers excellent suggestions to improve mode 1 or creaet a new mode 2.

Group 1 rejects all ideas out of hand put forth by group 2 (and mocks/insults/ignores again) simply because of reason number 1 (again) They dont like change.

Edited by Teralitha, 01 December 2012 - 04:12 PM.

[iminbagdad]

Stalephreak, on 30 November 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

Actually, if you have at least one person on your base, the cap stops. So no, you weren't sitting on your base. Nice try though. That was in a patch from over a month ago.

The cap stops yes but the amount that was capped does not go back up. So if they take 1/8th of an inch off the base cap then run away and we cant get to their base then they "win" because they "outplayed" us.

I am trying to say I want the MECHANIC of how base capping works to change. They said they were going to do it in CB and its still the same garbage. so let me say the next two things very clearly.

1. I do NOT want TDM, I want them to change how the base system works.

2. I CONCEDE! We were outplayed and they beat us so I am open to suggestions on how that could have been played better.

[Zphyr]

Teralitha, on 01 December 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

There is one group of players that enjoys the current mode. There is another group of players that see the flaws in the current mode, and suggest a (much)better mode. Group 2 disagrees with group 1 simply because they don't wish to adapt and accept that this game mode as it is.

Group 2 prefers to mock and insult group 1. Group 1 very carefully explains their reasons for not wanting a needless change to group 2. Group 2 ignores/mock/insults anything group 1 says because of the first reason - they dont like to accept things not to their liking.

Group 1 has gotten used to base capping. they have grown comfortable with it, and learned to work with its flaws.
Group 2 petitions for change to reduce or remove the flaws in mode 1, and often don't offers excellent suggestions to improve mode 1 or creaet a new mode 2, which we all know will come asap.

Group 2 rejects most of the opinions put forth by group 1 (and mocks/insults/ignores again) simply because of reason number 1 (again) They dont want to accept what they don't like and want changes to adapt to them instead, even if what they wish for will come true.

Changed to reflect the other point of view. Not saying who is right and who is wrong, but your post is quite partial.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Teralitha, on 01 December 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

I guess you havent heard, there is this thing here in MWO called matchmaking. I guess you also havent heard that jenners kill atlas's ROFL at you. I guess if conversation was about TT, then you might be right. but... its not.... here let me help you put that foot in...



Yes, because the poll wasnt related to the discussion. And only showed who was dumb(no votes) and who understood the OP(yes votes)



You must have got that from my exploiter solution topic. That is only in the equation because it doesnt cause the exploit.
I still dont support base capping

by making BASE CAP pay out THE MOST, you categorically support it. and for the record, match making has NOTHING to do with: game mode OR the viability of tactics.

[Araevin Teshurr]

The current game is still going through beta, and these basic maps and objectives will be built upon for the future.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Relaed, on 01 December 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

The current game is still going through beta, and these basic maps and objectives will be built upon for the future.

we collectively hope

[Agent of Change]

Teralitha, on 01 December 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

There is one group of players that enjoys the current mode. There is another group of players that see the flaws in the current mode, and suggest a (much)better mode. Group 1 disagrees with group 2 simply because they dont like change.

Group 1 prefers to mock and insult group 2. Group 2 very carefully explains their reasons for wanting a change to group 1. Group 1 ignores/mock/insults anything group 2 says because of the first reason - they dont like change.

Group 1 has gotten used to base capping. they have grown comfortable with it, and its flaws.
Group 2 petitions for change to reduce or remove the flaws in mode 1, and offers excellent suggestions to improve mode 1 or creaet a new mode 2.

Group 1 rejects all ideas out of hand put forth by group 2 (and mocks/insults/ignores again) simply because of reason number 1 (again) They dont like change.

You still aren't addressing the legitimate criticsims of your positions,

WE still have you ascribing blanket statements about people who disagree with you, trying to put them in a light where they are clearly wrong and you are clearly right. While you cry that these people won't listen to reason using your own example as proof disregarding that YOU MADE IT UP. And please tell me you are not blind to the blatant hypocrisy in the above quoted text, you are projecting your own actions on the very people you are trying to discredit, argue on an adult level and you will be treated like an adult.

Lets have this discussion reframed like this:

There is a scenario (the first of many) and it is currently the only scenario.

There is a mechanic you don't like (key word here is LIKE) but others do like it.

This creates a philosophical argument as there is no right answer simply two differing opinions.

There will be more scenarios eventually.

You can: A. Rage against the majority that disagree with you, which will get you absolutely nowhere because this is a matter of preference and you can't presume to know others peoples motivations beyond what they say and do and even that has a lot of noise in the signal without knowing them.

B. Accept that people disagree with you on a minor matter of personal preference and while you may not like it doesn't lessen their personhood or intelligence. Accept your differences and take your grievances to the devs because you aren't going to convince anyone now that you haven't already.

Edited by Agent of Change, 01 December 2012 - 07:54 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

AoC: I like what you just said man!

[Teralitha]

Zphyr, on 01 December 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

Changed to reflect the other point of view. Not saying who is right and who is wrong, but your post is quite partial.

Group 2 hates playing in a game mode thats broken. Sorry, but that is the truth of it. It - IS - broken.

[Teralitha]

Rejarial Galatan, on 01 December 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

by making BASE CAP pay out THE MOST, you categorically support it. and for the record, match making has NOTHING to do with: game mode OR the viability of tactics.

I was referring to your comment about how TDM is only about who has the bigger guns, which was just a dumb thing for you to say. (Just one of many examples)Jenner have tiny guns, but can kill anything. Matchmaking makes teams even. So no, it isnt about who has the bigger guns, its all about who the better team is.

[Martini Henrie]

Teralitha, on 01 December 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

Group 2 hates playing in a game mode thats broken. Sorry, but that is the truth of it. It - IS - broken.

In your opinion. Acting like a two year old will garner you no new respect or consideration. New play modes are coming, and if the plans stay as they are you will be able to dictate what game type you drop into. Patience, little one.

[Teralitha]

Agent of Change, on 01 December 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

You still aren't addressing the legitimate criticsims of your positions,

WE still have you ascribing blanket statements about people who disagree with you, trying to put them in a light where they are clearly wrong and you are clearly right. While you cry that these people won't listen to reason using your own example as proof disregarding that YOU MADE IT UP. And please tell me you are not blind to the blatant hypocrisy in the above quoted text, you are projecting your own actions on the very people you are trying to discredit, argue on an adult level and you will be treated like an adult.

Lets have this discussion reframed like this:

There is a scenario (the first of many) and it is currently the only scenario.

There is a mechanic you don't like (key word here is LIKE) but others do like it.

This creates a philosophical argument as there is no right answer simply two differing opinions.

There will be more scenarios eventually.

You can: A. Rage against the majority that disagree with you, which will get you absolutely nowhere because this is a matter of preference and you can't presume to know others peoples motivations beyond what they say and do and even that has a lot of noise in the signal without knowing them.

B. Accept that people disagree with you on a minor matter of personal preference and while you may not like it doesn't lessen their personhood or intelligence. Accept your differences and take your grievances to the devs because you aren't going to convince anyone now that you haven't already.

You know... I just want to improve the game. I want to improve the current game mode. Some people have actually spoken against changing anything at all, even the unrealistic empty orange squares.

Such people are unreasonable. And must be dealt with in unreasonable ways. Reasonable people are caught in the crossfire, and Im sorry. The unreasonable people are described as group 1.

Martini Henrie, on 01 December 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

In your opinion. Acting like a two year old will garner you no new respect or consideration. New play modes are coming, and if the plans stay as they are you will be able to dictate what game type you drop into. Patience, little one.

No, it is a FACT. The current game mode is broken, whether you like it or not. Sorry....

[Moses Lanknau]

actualy the game mode is like ctf, totaly abstract ... what u capture? by walking into a square? what exactly again? garbarge!

the games predecessors had a lot of examples where its was solved way more practical, way more realistic ... like attacking or defending a mobile convoi, or attaking/defending static buildings like a factory, airfield or dropship, spy out the defense of a base, kill the enemy leader  ... something like that ... not just an orange square ...

Edited by CSR Moses Lanknau, 01 December 2012 - 10:43 PM.

[Agent of Change]

Teralitha, on 01 December 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

Group 2 hates playing in a game mode thats broken. Sorry, but that is the truth of it. It - IS - broken.

Here let me spell it out for you since you insist on continuing this and at the same time ignoring the arguments you can't refute.

Miriam Webster said:

Opinion

a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter

vs.

Miriam Webster said:

Fact


a piece of information presented as having objective reality

Groups 2 doens't like playing a game mode that has something they consider broken this is their opinon. The truth of it is that they have the subjective view that there is something wrong the game mode. They have no proof of it being broken, in fact it is working as intended, group 2 is also facing a difference of opinion from a great many people.

Tera, you have no facts to stand on, you have a strongly held opinion. I do not think you are wrong I simply disagree, and most importantly most people disagree, further more the devs disagree otherwise they would have changed it long ago.

You want to prove me wrong reinstate your poll and keep it simple, something like:

Do you want to remove base capping?

Yes
No
Don't Care

If you do that and it goes your way I will consider adjusting my position, but until you have some kind of proof you are just making noise and agitating people into hostility.

Edited by Agent of Change, 01 December 2012 - 10:59 PM.

[Agent of Change]

Teralitha, on 01 December 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

No, it is a FACT. The current game mode is broken, whether you like it or not. Sorry....

By what standards is it broken? Can you specify the brokeness, or some how expound on how the mechanic is breaking the game?