78 replies to this topic

[vonSeydlitz]

Great info everyone (crit myth in particular) glad to have all this info in one place. I was a huge believer in 2xU/AC5 in my DDC until a friend talked me into running 2x LB-10X. I brawl almost exclusively and the impact was immediate. My AC20 and UAC accuracy was below 50% so that is a huge factor in the significant boost to my damage. One of the largest problems I had in surviving with my assaults was stomping those pesky crickets that keep eating on my rump...LB-10x is like a can of raid vrs. lights, even at range. Of course the damage isn't concentrated and, as shown above, the effects on crits aren't what many people think, but I must admit, late in the game I send arms and legs flying every which way. Try them both...I have, and for my play style the LBX rig is the way to go.

[no one]

OH LOOK IT'S THIS THREAD AGAIN.
http://mwomercs.com/...d/page__st__100

[torturous]

LOVE LBX

My aiming is not the best. Get Close Never miss. I can even hit Lights.

Muromets Great House Liao Mech. Fit 3 LBX10 on it.

Chain Fire to keep you rocking.
Also handy in drive-bys.

We call it the Street Sweeper

[vonSeydlitz]

I have watched the videos and read the evidence offered. my success rate and k/d improvement since I started using 2-LB-10X load outs can't be denied. I think one of the factors that has to be considered (and this is where theory crafting often fails) is how the weapon performs in battle field conditions. The numbers and decreased(by dispersion) alpha damage would seem to point at this being a support weapon, but in the middle of a drop, fighting for a cap.. aren't all weapons on all mechs supporting each other? Theory crafting relies on raw numbers and the context of its use is in a theoretical, almost never seen 1v1 gunfight. In game terms, I can land extreme range shots on nearly unseen opponents, on a night map , with no optics. While not doing much damage, it does add another assist to the bag. I am still under 500 games and not a "leet" MechWarrior. My stats before and after the last rest show a dramatic improvement in both K/D and W/L ratios. The only thing I am doing differently than before the reset...LB-10X in place of UAC5. Have I stumbled unknowingly onto some "LB-10x is for noobs...LTP" issue?

Edited by Sabre01, 27 March 2014 - 04:31 AM.

[Darwins Dog]

Old thread is old (like more than a year old). Since this was posted they have changed the crit system so that MGs, Flamers, and LBX have higher crit chances and more crit damage. Also, AC/20 has more health than other weapons. Ignore the quote on the first page. Much of that is not accurate anymore.

[fluffypinkbunny]

- The LB10-X has a 14% increased chance to crit once, an 8% increased chance to crit twice, and a 3% increased chance to crit 3 times.
- When the LB10-X crits, it will deal 2.0x the amount of normal damage from 1 'pellet' to an internal item.
- The LB10-X crit damage is 1.0 x 2.0 = 2.0 per crit. Max crit of 3 times = 6.0.

http://mwomercs.com/...90-19-feb-2013/

So each pellet of the lbx has a chance of doing 6 points of damage. vs the ONE bullet of an ac 10, doing 10 damage... IMO, 60 damage is better than 10.. heck 12 damage is better than 10. .. or if we want to go with the 1 crit time per pellet, 20 is better than 10, Yes the crits are "spread out" but it's better to crit multiple parts of a mech, than just one. imagine, 3 pellets hit one spot, EACH pellet, has a chance of doing 6 damage, they EACH roll on the crit table of a component, one hits an engine, one hits a heat sink, another hits engine. BAMN dead engine. vs, the one AC 10 round which is wasted against that heat sink.

Also, A % of critical damage done to the internals of a component will be applied directly to the inner structure of that component.
so it's better to have 10, different %'s of 6 damage, vs, one % of 10 damage.

Then we have, http://mwo.gamepedia...-_A_Brief_Guide from http://mwomercs.com/...83-lb10-x-love/

K thanks BYE (I love my lbx hunchie with mg backup, or my lbx shadowhawk, with ssrm backup, or my lbx jager (not so much), or my dual lbx catapult, with medium laser backup.)

(when complaining about myths it's best to use facts. I bring facts.) (thank you Reno Blade for finding of said facts

[Sug]

Sabre01, on 26 March 2014 - 06:50 PM, said:

Great info everyone (crit myth in particular) glad to have all this info in one place.

All the info before your post is over a year out of date. Way to necro scrub.

[oldradagast]

I think the main use for the LBX-10 currently is odd builds where it's size matters or the 1 ton saved over the AC10 matters. If you can fit either one without a problem, the AC10 is just better in nearly all cases, IMHO. Note that the LBX-10 is not BAD, it's just that if the weight and heat doesn't really matter, the AC10 is a bit better all around.

Edited by oldradagast, 27 March 2014 - 01:06 PM.

[wanderer]

Pretty simple for me- if an AC/10 crits something, it destroys it. 10 damage+, no if and or but.

If you can't hit anything normally with AC's, the LB-10X is a blunderbuss. You'll do SOME damage, but it's terribly inefficient.

[TuntematonSika]

Just do this. Get a Jager, slap on a AC/10 and a LB/10-X and shut up. You get the best of both worlds.

[Osric Lancaster]

TuntematonSika, on 04 April 2014 - 02:04 AM, said:

Just do this. Get a Jager, slap on a AC/10 and a LB/10-X and shut up. You get the best of both worlds.

Yeah, good thought! Then for the energy hard points you can slap on a PPC and a flamer.
Best of both worlds.

Really though, if you were absolutely faithful to the original roles of the weapons then SRMs and LRMs should also have vastly improved critical damage. Each and every LB 10-X pellet would have the same chance to deal a critical knockout blow, or in a hp system deal the same critical damage, as any given PPC, ac/5 ac/2, SRM missile or any other weapon (except LRMs, which would have only one in five missiles doing critical damage).

Also if you were going by TT rules the LB 10-X should have its firing pattern changed from a cone to a cylinder. The LB 10-X doesn't have worse pellet spread at long range like the Hyper Assault Gauss rifle.

The LB 10-X simply isn't anywhere near that good at taking out components, and is still markedly worse for it than the ac/10. I hope PGI does something to make it a less terrible weapon in the balance pass, but I'm not holding my breath. They all but broken me of my stupid optimism with that missile speed foot shuffling.

How are there 80 people who think the LB 10-X is not only a good weapon, but better than the ac/10? How does that happen?

fluffypinkbunny, on 27 March 2014 - 12:03 PM, said:

. . . EACH pellet, has a chance of doing 6 damage, they EACH roll on the crit table of a component, one hits an engine, one hits a heat sink, another hits engine. BAMN dead engine. vs, the one AC 10 round which is wasted against that heat sink.
. . .
Then we have, http://mwo.gamepedia...-_A_Brief_Guide
. . .
when complaining about myths it's best to use facts. I bring facts.

You used a hilariously optimistic, statistically neigh miraculous best case scenario for your example, and you clearly haven't read / are willfully ignoring the information in your own link. Are you messing with me?

Edited by Osric Lancaster, 04 April 2014 - 02:45 AM.

[MisterPlanetarian]

LBX is only viable because SRM hitreg sucks.

LBX works against lights fairly well, for anything else 10 up front pinpoint damage is simply better. It's not a terrible weapon but there are better options in the 10-12 ton range. You can fit 3x Artemis SRM6 or an Ac10 for 12 tons, the former is even now more powerful for brawling.

I'd want to see a signifigant DPS increase to the LBX via rate of fire to make it more of a dedicated brawling weapon.

[Thorqemada]

The LBX10 is a fun weapon but i allways do better with the AC10.

That is bcs my Mechs rely on the AC to crack open an enemy Mech and i do not get this close to an enemy that the LBX10 can do it in the time i get.

If the enemy is already cracked open and the combat distance has closed to ~200m the LBX10 starts to become a wonderful weapon.

Edited by Thorqemada, 10 April 2014 - 12:54 PM.

[Void Angel]

Yes, the LB-10X is a specific-use weapon. Anyone who says things like "it spreads its damage so it's easier to hit with," - as though spread damage was a benefit - should be discounted as a knowledgeable source. The LB-10X does have a faster projectile speed, however, which makes it very accurate at very close ranges, even against lights (though hit reg doesn't seem to like lots of simultaneous hits.) The AC/10, on the other hand, recently had its projectile speed nerfed to make it a little less accurate at medium ranges, so you'll have a much harder time hitting a competent light pilot with one.

If you're looking to fight a significant amount at medium ranges, use the AC/10. For up close and personal brawling (where the spread is much less pronounced) go for the LB-10X.

[Vanguard319]

The LB-X is pretty good for swatting those pesky lights, and it's range is slightly longer. It would be better if it had the dual-mode firing ability it's supposed to have, (The LB-X can fire both solid and cluster rounds, but not specialized munitions like precision and armor piercing ammo.) though that's probably unlikely due to weapon balance.

Edited by Vanguard319, 10 April 2014 - 11:03 AM.

[William Slayer]

I voted for the LBX-10 for just the above reason: Lights. As a Heavy Mech Pilot, I need light mechs to GO AWAY... quickly. If I get a kill on them with my LBX, great. If not, I am letting them know that I wont be ***** footing around trying to sweep a few medium lasers across their legs (doing 1-2 dmg). My plan is to point a few shots at them and strip them of 10 to 20 % of their total armor in 5 seconds... hopefully.

[Voivode]

Depends on what else I have in the mech. If I have longer range weapons I find the LB10X to be less useful than the AC10. If I have close range weapons I find the LB10X to be more useful than the AC10. It's situational.

[NRP]

Personally, I've never found the LB-10X to be very useful. If I want to use a "crit build", I'll use lasers + MGs.

[Lord Perversor]

There is always a huge discussion about if AC/10 > LBX/10 or not.

Imho each one has it role the Ac/10 it's a more precise and multipurpouse weapon, while the LBX seems to be a finisher / wrecker of open mechs on close range.

At the end of the day just play with whatever fits your playstyle i use both on different builds and situations and both work maybe they aren't the top meta builds but why should i care when my fail meds and 60ish toners get paired with the Uber meta lords every day?

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

LBX Pros and Cons!

PRO: Hits like Buck shot up close and kills internals

CON: Hits like Buck shot at long range and feels like pebbles bouncing off

AC-10 Pros and Cons!

PRO: Hits harder then an LBX in one spot and does good damage

CON: It isn't a Gauss! I'd rather have an AC10 with the stupid Band-Aid fix firing mechanic of the Gauss.