131 replies to this topic

[Orkhepaj]

What a noob SamizdatCowboy.
He wants to show how good is his math and then totally fail. GJ
Time not taken into account.
Repair/reload costs neighter.

I would give 0/5 for his math ,but cause he is so smug about himself that adds a -1 to it^^

Edited by Orkhepaj, 30 November 2012 - 06:25 AM.

[SamizdatCowboy]

Orkhepaj, on 30 November 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

What a noob SamizdatCowboy.
He wants to show how good is his math and then totally fail. GJ
Time not taken into account.
Repair/reload costs neighter.

I would give 0/5 for his math ,but cause he is so smug about himself that adds a -1 to it^^

Sigh, there's always one. Trolllololol

[Lee Ving]

SamizdatCowboy, on 30 November 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

Sigh, there's always one. Trolllololol

Pull troll card on page 2, do not address the most-oft-used-scenario wherein the last mech is hiding or disco.

Smells, this thread has them.

[DisasterTheory]

SamizdatCowboy, on 30 November 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

Killing 'may' be easy but efficient killing is hard and requires the most teamwork... more than capping.

Quote

What does efficiently mean? Headshot or legs..

So lets get this straight..... Your going around legging the **** out of everyone and you think thats honorable?

Yea.... I have been on the losing end of your "leggingfest" and let me just say that in my eyes your a coward and cheap for doing something we all know is an easy, skilless way out.

Headshots on the otherhand require a bit of skill to pull off since you can just "fan" around some meds or smalls at someones stilts.

[Fiachdubh]

7 kills and a cap are more lucrative than 8 kills. AFKers don't count as kills so those who rush into base to kill them instead of cap are just throwing away cbills and xp.

[van Uber]

SamizdatCowboy, on 30 November 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

Sigh, there's always one. Trolllololol

Well he has a point, considering CB/h. While you point out that salvage is potentially lucrative, you disregard the time and risk it takes to get that precious salvage in comparison to a quick win.

Just saying that there is a time and place for everything.

[SamizdatCowboy]

van Uber, on 30 November 2012 - 06:38 AM, said:

Well he has a point, considering CB/h. While you point out that salvage is potentially lucrative, you disregard the time and risk it takes to get that precious salvage in comparison to a quick win.

Just saying that there is a time and place for everything.

I was referring more to the flame tone, those are points with merit

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 30 November 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

So lets get this straight..... Your going around legging the **** out of everyone and you think thats honorable?

Yea.... I have been on the losing end of your "leggingfest" and let me just say that in my eyes your a coward and cheap for doing something we all know is an easy, skilless way out.

Headshots on the otherhand require a bit of skill to pull off since you can just "fan" around some meds or smalls at someones stilts.

Ok first of all... honorable. Yeah. Why does that remind of me something? Oh right!



Second, you do realize next to headshots legging is the most difficult (borderline stupid) strategy for killing an enemy right? There's a reason why it nets you second most salvage next to headshot.

Legging requires MORE damage than a core from the front. AND it does nothing to degrade the enemy mechs firepower. So lets think about this... takes more time because of more armor/internal health to drop and allows the enemy to retain their weapons. How exactly is this an easy way to kill someone again?

[Joseph Mallan]

Aym, on 30 November 2012 - 06:19 AM, said:

To be fair, if you haven't shot down to below 75% of your ammo by the time you're killing that last mech, well, paying to replace ammo isn't your problem.
Generally speaking the shots you fire at the beginning of a match cost you c-bills, the shots you fire at the end are welfare shots.

You think your welfare bonus will last forever? The point is still you are a soldier given a mission. If you don't cap the base you fail your mission. The Chain of Command does not look lightly on failure to follow orders.

[Viper69]

So capping without my mech taking damage is worth less than say killing everything and my mech maybe needing repaired/rearmed. It may be a wash on my atlas. If we run straight to cap I usually get around 175k no premium in my founder atlas. If we kill everything I may top out at 225k no premium. So really I could give two s**** what my team does as long as I win. You should too. If telling people that capping will get them more will get them out and forward then so be it.

[Corison]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 November 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

You think your welfare bonus will last forever? The point is still you are a soldier given a mission. If you don't cap the base you fail your mission. The Chain of Command does not look lightly on failure to follow orders.

Much easier to capture the base once all enemies are dead or gone. One of the reasons the current reward system makes no sense. A multi-level objective system would work better but would take more time to implement. So meh... capture if that last mech is hiding/runs but otherwise destroy all resistance then capture.

[SamizdatCowboy]

Fiachdubh, on 30 November 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:

7 kills and a cap are more lucrative than 8 kills. AFKers don't count as kills so those who rush into base to kill them instead of cap are just throwing away cbills and xp.

I have to agree with others who pointed out that once you get to 7 kills, it's a gray area whether the cap or another kill will be more lucrative, and I don't think it's right to say the cap is 'always' more lucrative instead of a final kill.

But it is a fair point that the vice versa is also true: getting the final kill is not 'always' more lucrative than a cap. So yeah I guess the more pragmatic thing to say is it's one of those battlefield-decision things.

[SamizdatCowboy]

Viper69, on 30 November 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

So capping without my mech taking damage is worth less than say killing everything and my mech maybe needing repaired/rearmed. It may be a wash on my atlas. If we run straight to cap I usually get around 175k no premium in my founder atlas. If we kill everything I may top out at 225k no premium. So really I could give two s**** what my team does as long as I win. You should too. If telling people that capping will get them more will get them out and forward then so be it.

People keep making a big deal out of repair/rearm. I don't know what you all are doing to your mechs, but repair/rearm usually runs me 10-30k unless it's a REALLY bad match in which case it may be 45-60k.

A match with average salvage is going to net me 200k usually (in a founders cat or hunchie), so say 170k take home. I'd like to see a screenshot of a straight cap win netting you 175k. My recollection is that it's only a little more than the 100k win amount... although maybe I'm wrong. All I remember is being thoroughly unimpressed with a rush cap win... and if it had been 175k I assure you I would be going for cap rush every game.

Now if you're able to do back to back to back rush cap wins with no damage... yeah sure I'll agree the CB/h is probably going to be superior in the long run (even assuming vanilla 100k CB per match). The reality however is very rarely do you get a true cap rush no damage win.

Note: I'm assuming cap rush no damage win = no kills

Edited by SamizdatCowboy, 30 November 2012 - 06:56 AM.

[Helvyk]

I am not reading this whole thread as the premise is stupid.

I hope some one has already typed this:

When the enemy is down to just 1 player you will earn more by capturing the enemy base then killing that last player. There is not enough "salvage" points on one (probably already damaged) player to account for the 7500 C-bills.

[Viper69]

Yeah, I have never been on a team where its just rush cap, usually some poor sod who decides to come back and defend dies. SO yeah there is usually 1-3 kills in my matches with fast caps.

SamizdatCowboy, on 30 November 2012 - 06:52 AM, said:

People keep making a big deal out of repair/rearm. I don't know what you all are doing to your mechs, but repair/rearm usually runs me 10-30k unless it's a REALLY bad match in which case it may be 45-60k.

A match with a lot of salvage is going to net me 200k usually (in a founders cat or hunchie), so say 170k take home. I'd like to see a screenshot of a straight cap win netting you 175k. My recollection is that it's only a little more than the 100k win amount... although maybe I'm wrong. All I remember is being thoroughly unimpressed with a rush cap win... and if it had been 175k I assure you I would be going for cap rush every game.

Now if you're able to do back to back to back rush cap wins with no damage... yeah sure I'll agree the CB/h is probably going to be superior in the long run (even assuming vanilla 100k CB per match). The reality however is very rarely do you get a true cap rush no damage win.

Note: I'm assuming rush cap win no damage also = no kills

[Kaolix]

Someone really needs to figure out the formula for salvage - I assume it's just a straight fraction of the total value of remaining bits on all dead mechs, but there's a possibility that components are valued differently to armour, or even that certain components (weapons, engines?) are valued differently to others (ammo, heatsinks?).
Has it ever been stated by PGI exactly how salvage works? or has anyone ever done extensive testing to figure it out? It'd be nice to be able to know that, say, a cap is always worth more than a light mech, or exactly how much cash you lose from coring that guy running an XL etc.

[Viper69]

You will never see that data. You will only see estimates because you would need tight controls on the test. You would need to know exactly what you were salvaging, the target mechs load out down to the amount of armor. Now you could in theory do a test with friends and do a 123 drop scenario, when 8 mans come back so you can accurately kill one mech in the shortest way to see if the value of his death is greater than if he was stripped then cored.

[Joseph Mallan]

Corison, on 30 November 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

Much easier to capture the base once all enemies are dead or gone. One of the reasons the current reward system makes no sense. A multi-level objective system would work better but would take more time to implement. So meh... capture if that last mech is hiding/runs but otherwise destroy all resistance then capture.

Its almost done now. You get rewards for kills, assists, spotting, etc. All we need is something that tracks the Cap. If you defeat all enemy and don't cap the base you lose. You were sent to capture the base in the time allotted. Failure to do so means that the "prize" your boss was after got away. You failed. Now take the penalty. Similar to team kills would work for me.

[SamizdatCowboy]

Kaolix, on 30 November 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

Someone really needs to figure out the formula for salvage - I assume it's just a straight fraction of the total value of remaining bits on all dead mechs, but there's a possibility that components are valued differently to armour, or even that certain components (weapons, engines?) are valued differently to others (ammo, heatsinks?).
Has it ever been stated by PGI exactly how salvage works? or has anyone ever done extensive testing to figure it out? It'd be nice to be able to know that, say, a cap is always worth more than a light mech, or exactly how much cash you lose from coring that guy running an XL etc.

Vlad Ward, on 20 November 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

Salvage Bonus is calculated at 2% of the purchase value of the undamaged equipment and components on enemy Mechs at the end of the match split between the number of users on your team.

With an average mech cost of 5,000,000 c-bills on each of the 8 enemy mechs, multiplied by 0.02 and divided by 8 members on a team, an average, well-executed Salvage bonus can net about 100,000 additional c-bills for everyone on your team.

Fighting a team with more Assault and Tier 2-equipped Mechs can increase that substantially. The key is making sure that the upper bodies of the enemy Mechs remain undamaged. Only shoot the legs or the head to maximize your money.

You'll have to ask Vlad where he got those numbers, but it seems right.

So if you have one Atlas left at 75% health, and assuming an 11,000,000 CB retail value a fully efficient kill would net you:

11,000,000 * 0.75 * 0.2 / 8 = 20,625 CB of salvage.

If you have a Jenner left at 20% health, and assuming an 3,000,000 CB retail value an efficient kill on what's left of that jen would net you:

3,000,000CB * 0.20 * 0.2 / 8 = 1,500 CB

This is why it's a gray area as to what the right decision is... it depends on the specific situation.

Edited by SamizdatCowboy, 30 November 2012 - 07:13 AM.

[Mercules]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 November 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

Its almost done now. You get rewards for kills, assists, spotting, etc. All we need is something that tracks the Cap. If you defeat all enemy and don't cap the base you lose. You were sent to capture the base in the time allotted. Failure to do so means that the "prize" your boss was after got away. You failed. Now take the penalty. Similar to team kills would work for me.

That seems a bit excessive. The match ends when you kill all opposing mechs because you have "captured the base". There is no one to stop you now. Forcing us to walk over there would simply increase the match length for no real reason.

[wanderer]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 30 November 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

So lets get this straight..... Your going around legging the **** out of everyone and you think thats honorable?

Yea.... I have been on the losing end of your "leggingfest" and let me just say that in my eyes your a coward and cheap for doing something we all know is an easy, skilless way out.

Headshots on the otherhand require a bit of skill to pull off since you can just "fan" around some meds or smalls at someones stilts.

I see. So apparently, I should just aim for your CT and kill you in half the time it takes to leg you, because that's skill and giant robot honor dueling.

Unless you're one of those people who deliberately strips your leg armor to squeeze out extra tonnage elsewhere?

"Dishonorable" being legging someone went out the door with it taking blowing both legs off to kill the target. If anything, I'm giving you the gentleman's advantage by not firing at locations which would degrade your ability to shoot back. What do think ups my odds of winning- shooting the obvious weak points (Hi, Hunchie hump) or drilling through two of the heaviest armored parts of your 'Mech while you tear into me unabated?