226 replies to this topic

[Fiachdubh]

Kraven Kor is entirely correct.

[LordBraxton]

TruePoindexter, on 30 November 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

Debates include death threats to your wife? Yeah that was totally awesome because I debated.

Sorry theres no way I could have read every page of that thread. Must have been a real immature scumbag?

Thats to be expected when the almost the entire community is against something, the freaks\scum will be against it as well.

[Wardn]

I can't possibly believe that MWO is failing because of the community when PGI's own Community Manager acts like a child. If that's the level of competency with which PGI assigns their employees then it's no wonder the game is failing as hard as it is.

[Imagine Dragons]

Go jump off a cliff D:<

ciller, on 30 November 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

You are doing quotes email style. Its not typical in forums though. Anyone who cares or is bothered by it has issues.

Wait, no, damit...

[TruePoindexter]

LordBraxton, on 30 November 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

Sorry theres no way I could have read every page of that thread. Must have been a real immature scumbag?

Thats to be expected when the almost the entire community is against something, the freaks\scum will be against it as well.

Don't read the thread - it honestly is horrible.

I would agree if it were only one or two saying generally derisive things. There were a lot of people who would say lovely things like "we don't want those people" in referring to new players. Real gems.

[Jello2142]

Take all the trolling out of the community, disregard every muscle bound bird, fry not sure if or people >Implying.

What you have left over is people discussing mechs, pointing out bugs, sharing thoughts/ideas, and finally pointing out what they "feel" is wrong or right with the game. It is beta, that is to be expected. Instead of PGI and their PR community posting in hot threads simple responses like "hmmm good idea" or "woah we will let the guys know" and maybe pepper in a "we are aware and working on it" the forum hate grows and grows until what was a legit thread turns into a bunch of hate.

Pretty sure that the members of the community are not responsible for ruining the game, that would be PGI and PGI alone as this is their project. Community or not they are responsible for their baby, we are not being paid to watch the kid!

This community is not toxic, hell WoW has one of the most vial communities out there and some how they manage to crank out panda bear and what is probably going to be a pony expansion to rain in record numbers! So that should go to show the community doesn't kill the game. Take TOR for example the community cried for ever saying that this game is going to crap the bed if they don't fix XYZ, they released without taking note from their community and look at TOR now.

In PS2 I see coder,smeddley, and other guys posts all the time in general. Yeah they are a AAA studio I get it, in DayZ I see the team posting in their forums and up until the stand alone came to be I am sure they had jobs and families and modded PT yet I see Garth responding to troll posts in a sarcastic nature here. He has time to go troll V troll but not respond to the community concerns?

TL;DR The community is not responsible for the short comings of the company

[ciller]

Kraven Kor, on 30 November 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

So you respond in kind?

This is why we can't have nice things World Peace, you know...

I know!! Oh how weak am I. It takes but just a moment and before you know it you get sucked into their world. Woe is me! Haha, I'll try harder.

[Beo Vulf]

Kraven Kor, on 30 November 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

I listened to the NGNG Podcast and, well, honestly, discovered I was doing exactly what Russ or Bryan or whoever stated.

I was refusing to even listen to the other side, or, at least to an extent.

I'm not 100% against 3rd Person View being added to the game. I am 100% against using it, I am 100% against having to fight against other players using 3PV, though I can see ways that would work (the WOT model where you don't see things in 3PV that you don't have LOS to in 1PV or whatever.)

I've always mentioned I'd be all for it if "done right." UAV, satellite imagery, shoulder-cam, rear-view cam, computer simulated 3D Wireframe view or the like.

However, I have to say it:

We are a bunch of raging lunatics and, well, @$$#0|3$ for the most part.

I'm sorry, but we are.

This is an incredibly toxic community. The amount of nerd rage I see posted on a daily basis - and yes, I've probably been guilty of it myself - is staggering.

I am hoping that everyone can read this, objectively, and realize that the hate needs to stop. The griefing, the insults towards others that don't agree with you on any given subject, the hate between "premades" and "lone wolves..." It all needs to stop. Or at least let up a bit.

PGI getting better at communicating things of late will hopefully help calm things down.

But I hope that each and every one of us can make whatever base effort we can to make this a better, friendlier, less argumentative, and more welcoming community.

We have no small amount of control over the success or failure of this franchise, and no small amount of responsibility to try and make this the best community we can make it. Discussing differences of opinion is fine; let's all try to be more constructive about. Please?

Thank you for reading. I'll leave this soap box right here for the next guy

Agreed! bump.

[Coolant]

JokerVictor, on 30 November 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

+1 This community doesn't code the game. They are the ones that suck at that, not us.

You are a programmer?

[CarnifexMaximus]

I listened to the NGNG podcast last night and was really hit with what Russ had to say.

This is the first game "community" I have even been actively posting in. I find this whole modern trend of community feedback etc... really interesting because when I started gaming 20 years ago or so one had zero interfacing with the development process.

Before MWO got started I was a silent observer throughout the course of Battlefield 3's development. I was a longtime fan of BF franchise since 1942 and Vietnam. I was stoked that the "true successor to BF2" was on its way. However, the level of dev to community access during BF3's alpha and beta is a night and day difference to what I see with PGI and MWO. I read this earlier this week. It's an excellent, well documented history of BF3s development and what happened to its community. Every time I read an angry post accusing PGI of not responding to the community or otherwise antagonizing MWO players I sincerely wish one would give this article a read, because every negative thing/comment/post I have seen thus far does not stack up with how I am seeing things on my end (based off my experience)

Edited by CarnifexMaximus, 30 November 2012 - 12:44 PM.

[Coolant]

Wardn, on 30 November 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

I can't possibly believe that MWO is failing because of the community when PGI's own Community Manager acts like a child. If that's the level of competency with which PGI assigns their employees then it's no wonder the game is failing as hard as it is.

failing? How would you measure failure? If a game floats or sinks on it's financial well-being then please give me hard figures on how this is failing? Bugs, can be fixed, and bugs have even if they aren't the bugs you want currently, content can be added and has been on a regular basis...neither one of those matter near as much as financials. So, hard data?

[Sulf]

There is a lot of good stuff here, but (yes, BUT) I don't believe that not speaking when we feel things have gone horribly wrong is a good call. Sometimes thousands of enraged consumers speaking out is the only way to get noticed.

The problem though is we really aren't noticed. They haven't stopped working on 3rd person view and no one has mentioned anything about fixing camo spec. These both are largely because they want to increase player base and thereby sales, which is good, just the wrong way.

I'll even admit that 3PV is potentially viable. That's not the point. It's that they heard us but chose not to listen.

Coolant, on 30 November 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

failing? How would you measure failure? If a game floats or sinks on it's financial well-being then please give me hard figures on how this is failing? Bugs, can be fixed, and bugs have even if they aren't the bugs you want currently, content can be added and has been on a regular basis...neither one of those matter near as much as financials. So, hard data?

Last I heard they made 5 Million on founders program and took out 10 Million to fund the game. That sounds like in the red to me.

[Jello2142]

Coolant, on 30 November 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

failing? How would you measure failure? If a game floats or sinks on it's financial well-being then please give me hard figures on how this is failing? Bugs, can be fixed, and bugs have even if they aren't the bugs you want currently, content can be added and has been on a regular basis...neither one of those matter near as much as financials. So, hard data?

I don't think anyone knows enough at this current time to state whether or not if this games is going to fail or is failing. However I think it has become clear with lack of input and fixes on outstanding issues that it is TORending a certain direcion.

Bugs can be fixed but it seems to be a snails pace
Content can be added but a night map seems to be a just that a map not real content.

You know just as well as the person you responded to that there isn't any hard data but rather a lot of GUT feelings and experience from prior titles acting the same way in the past.

I find it funny that with all the fighting no one has stopped to consider that a lot of the posting is by founders. I probably can say with some level of certainty that those who are expressing concern didn't pony up $120 or less so that we could **** off the other people who feel differently with a fancy badge. Has it not occurred to you that maybe we really want this game to succeed and in the biggest way and that by expressing concerns maybe it will happen?

As for those who are curious as to what Warden was referring to in his post about the manager acting like a child I believe he would direct you to the deleted post this screen shot came from. Less time troll hunting and more time responding to issues and concerns imjustsaying.jpg

[Wardn]

CarnifexMaximus, on 30 November 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

I listened to the NGNG podcast last night and was really hit with what Russ had to say.

This is the first game "community" I have even been actively posting in. I find this whole modern trend of community feedback etc... really interesting because when I started gaming 20 years ago or so one had zero interfacing with the development process.

Before MWO got started I was a silent observer throughout the course of Battlefield 3's development. I was a longtime fan of BF franchise since 1942 and Vietnam. I was stoked that the "true successor to BF2" was on its way. However, the level of dev to community access during BF3's alpha and beta is a night and day difference to what I see with PGI and MWO. I read this earlier this week. It's an excellent, well documented history of BF3s development and what happened to its community. Every time I read an angry post accusing PGI of not responding to the community or otherwise antagonizing MWO players I sincerely wish one would give this article a read, because every negative thing/comment/post I have seen thus far does not stack up with how I am seeing things on my end (based off my experience)

Did you even read the article you linked? Jesus, man, the parallels are staggering. Missed deadlines, ignoring community feedback, attempts to squeeze out every last dime from your player base, telling the community that they're wrong because "Our data say this and you say that so clearly you're mistaken". How can you read that and conclude that PGI is doing things WELL?

[shabowie]

Aidan Malchor, on 30 November 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

This just proves the OP's point. They have stated why they removed collisions and you have either disregarded it, or just didn't read it.

Did it involve the real reason IMO which was the amount of lagging and rubber banding of models was extremely unattractive and showed how bad the net code was? They couldn't leave that in for the open beta we told them they weren't ready for so it had to go, even if it served a vital gameplay balance role.

Just my opinion. I also haven't heard any of the podcasts about why they have done a 180 on 3rd person, but did they ever state that the main reason is that its being demanded by corporate sponsors/partners which is my belief? Certainly 90% of the existing player base doesn't want it. Didn't sound like they wanted it earlier in development.

[Death Knell]

A snippet from the Battlefield 3 article. "...but in-game you could not escape the Premium ads because anytime a Premium player killed you, it would be pointed out to you." We should totally implement this in MWO. Every time a founder or some one with premium time kills you it should say, "[USER] recieved 30% more C-Bills than you did for this match!"

[TruePoindexter]

Wardn, on 30 November 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

Did you even read the article you linked? Jesus, man, the parallels are staggering. Missed deadlines, ignoring community feedback, attempts to squeeze out every last dime from your player base, telling the community that they're wrong because "Our data say this and you say that so clearly you're mistaken". How can you read that and conclude that PGI is doing things WELL?

Battlefield 3 is hugely successful so.... what were you saying?

[Wardn]

TruePoindexter, on 30 November 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

Battlefield 3 is hugely successful so.... what were you saying?

I see that article made a slight whistling noise as it flew overhead.

Stay gold.

[Death Knell]

TruePoindexter, on 30 November 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

Battlefield 3 is hugely successful so.... what were you saying?

Pointing out parallels doesn't mean that they're exactly the same. I'm assuming that this game's inability to retain new players is more crippling than BF3's.

[Kraven Kor]

Brickyard, on 30 November 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

There is a lot of good stuff here, but (yes, BUT) I don't believe that not speaking when we feel things have gone horribly wrong is a good call. Sometimes thousands of enraged consumers speaking out is the only way to get noticed.

The problem though is we really aren't noticed. They haven't stopped working on 3rd person view and no one has mentioned anything about fixing camo spec. These both are largely because they want to increase player base and thereby sales, which is good, just the wrong way.

I'll even admit that 3PV is potentially viable. That's not the point. It's that they heard us but chose not to listen.



Last I heard they made 5 Million on founders program and took out 10 Million to fund the game. That sounds like in the red to me.

And speaking out when "things have gone awry" is fine.

I just wish more could do it without the offensive language and vitriol.

"This is a problem, here is how I feel, please don't do this" is one thing.

"Now listen here, this is ********, you worthless greedy pigs" is another. Knowudimean?